Hey Everybody--

I've been experiencing the dreaded "sticky clutch" since Friday, and I'm trying now to flush/bleed the hydraulic system to see if I can fix the problem, at least temporarily. However, upon lifting my 2000 Vette (71,800 miles) this evening, I discovered more potential trouble: it looks like not only my clutch hydraulic system is leaking, but I've also got some fluid leaking from or around the transmission. Could this sticky clutch problem also be affecting my transmission? Other way around? Also, if my clutch hydraulics are leaking this much, is flushing/bleeding the system going to be in vain? Has my slave cylinder completely given up the ghost? Please have a look at the pictures below and share any thoughts/experience you may have. If they don't load, the links are:

http://fredonet.dyndns.org/fred/imag...lutch_leak.jpg
http://fredonet.dyndns.org/fred/imag...trans_leak.jpg

Clutch leak

Transmission leak?

Thanks for any help!
Fred

 

Have you verified what the fluids are?

It looks like the fluid on the tranny is coming from the connection of the tranny/rear carrier. There is no tranny fluid at that connection, but there is gear oil from the rear carrier. This is of course, assuming you don't have a crack in your tranny, or the fill/drain plugs aren't loose. Did you check for any of that?

Assuming it is actually leaking at that junction, the seal between the rear and the tranny is probably missing or busted.

As far as the bellhousing goes, I'm assuming that's hydraulic fluid and not oil. Again, did you check? If it's hydraulic fluid, it's probably the slave cylinder.


You're pretty much gonna have to remove the entire drivetrain and see what's going on. Once you get the torque tube off you can see what's leaking in there (the line or the slave), and replace the necessary components. While you're there, pull the rear off the tranny and see what's going on with that.

Seems very weird that you have 2 large leaks like that. Looks like pretty nasty leaks too.

Dope

 

That looks more like an engine oil than brake fluid from the clutch. It's way too dark to be coming from the slave cylinder. Of course, without actually seeing the car, I'm only guessing by the pictures. Look at the fluid level in the clutch reservoir. Since it's so small, any leak would drop the level quite a bit. Same as the trans leak. All the tranny leaks I've seen, the trans case is very clean from the atf with red colored drops on the bottom of the trans case. Being as yours is black- just like the engine pics, I'm inclined to think that it's an engine oil leak that is being blown back as the car is driven and catching on the trans case. My suggestion would be to clean the areas as best as possible, say with some brakleen, add some floureseant engine oil dye to the engine oil, and check for the leak with a black light. Most GM dealers carry the dye. There's no fluid inside of the torque tube and it's sealed at both ends.

Mark
Phoenix Performance

 

Wow! Thanks for the quick and detailed responses! I appreciate your taking the time to help me!

No, but the fluid on the tranny does seem to have a reddish tint to it...

If you mean the plug on the side near the DEX-RON III label, then there doesn't seem to be any leakage there. Didn't see any cracks. I should mention that the tranny pic is looking rearward-- the connection closest to you is where the torque tube joins the trans. Does that change your assessment of what it might be?

That's what I figured. Guess it's yet another case of that whole failing slave cylinder issue that has caused much "sticky clutch". Speaking of that, what is this "VME" (#P100206) that I've seen? Neither GM nor the dealerships I've talked to seem to know what it is. I've got the text of it, but what type of document is this? And how can I point it out "officially" to GM Customer Assistance or the dealership?

I was thinking the same thing. In looking closer at the tranny, I'm wondering, like 3X2, if the front leak's fluid isn't blowing back on the tranny. Strange that the fluid on the tranny is ahead of the torque tube seal, and notice how it's higher up on the right side. Notice also how it looks like the left exhaust pipe might be shielding/catching some fluid drops from farther forward.

That's because I don't believe the clutch hydraulic fluid has ever been changed until now. I've had the car for about 14 months & 12,000 miles, and I've never done it. It's a 2000 w/ 71,800 miles total. When I first started having the clutch trouble and looked in the reservoir (for the first time), the level was quite low (undoubtedly from that leak) and it was very "sludgy"-- kind of flat black. I "turkey-basted" that little bit out of the reservoir and refilled with fresh DOT3 fluid. So, don't let the color fool you-- by the location, it sure seems like clutch fluid to me.

Actually, there does seem to be a bit of red tinting in the drops on the underside of the tranny. However, as I said above, it does look like some of that fluid might indeed be blowing back. Here's a better look:


I really don't think it's engine oil, but I will keep an eye on it, and I will definitely clean the fluids off so that I can get a better idea of exactly where it's all coming from. Must be recent, since there weren't any puddles in my garage until now...

Thanks again for the help and continued support!
Fred

 

From that last pic I'd say that's definitely AFT fluid on the tranny. To me it almost looks like the front and rear seals on the input and output shafts.

I would say it's clutch fluid leaking up front. You can get a better idea of where exactly the leak is coming from if you drop the h-pipe and inspection cover but everything under there is all part of the new slave. So it's not a matter of whether it's the line or the slave, when you get a new slave it has the line connected to it all the way until the quick disconnect. Really, dropping the inspection cover would just give you a verification that it's the slave that's leaking.

Good luck.

 

As far as the transmission leak,it is the notorious case/tailhousing leak. I have repaired this symptom many times. The only fix is to remove and reseal. Do NOT let the unit get low on fluid or you will be looking at a much larger repair bill. I recently upgraded a 04 Z16 unit with my parts and to my surprise Tremec now uses a gasket at this joint instead of silicone.

 

Ugh. I just busted mine and my friend's butts last night getting the exhaust and driveline tunnel panel off to bleed the clutch. Never done this before, so it took a long time. Once finally done (early this morning), I took a test drive, and still got the sticky clutch pedal when I let the RPMs rise a bit. Guess I'll have to take it to a shop and let the raping begin... I love getting to pay the penalty for an inadequate design.

Lemme ask this again: What is that VME? What does it stand for? How can I point this out to a dealer or GM?

Thanks for all the help,
Fred

P.S. Don't know yet about the tranny. I cleaned off the casing pretty well with some degreaser, and now I'll just have to wait and see if/when/where it leaks.

 

Give us a call, I realize that we are 8 hrs away,but we can save you some money and can get you taken care of in one trip.

 

Holy crap, Batman-- that's a long way to go (especially with a malfunctioning clutch)!!! Sorry to disappoint, but I've already taken a different route:

Now that I've been unable to fix the sticky clutch pedal by bleeding the clutch hydraulic system, I've given in and taken it to a dealership (Ivan Leonard Chevrolet in Hoover, AL). I've asked them to provide me with a diagnosis of the problem, so that I can "bend the ear" of GM Customer Assistance in the hopes of getting some financial help or, better yet, acknowledgment of this widespread issue.

However, even if the clutch assembly is fine and it is purely a problem with the hydraulics, I've asked them to go ahead and replace the flywheel, clutch disc, and pressure plate with new, Z06 parts. At 72k miles, I might as well replace those parts, as long as I'm already paying the $700 labor for them to get to the clutch anyway...

I'll keep everybody posted. In the meantime, if anyone can shed some add'l light on what this "Service VME #PI00206" is, I'd greatly appreciate it. I'd like to be able to talk intelligibly about this document, which I've been unable to do so far...

L8r,
Fred

 

Be sure to fluid level if it gets even a little low you will be in for a much larger bill. It is worth the drive to see Rodney "Crashed 94"
Good Luck