Crash Data Recorder Removal?
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,667
Likes: 0
From: TurtleCreek Twp Ohio
Cruise-In III Veteran
Originally Posted by Zilla
No legal recourse
give your head a shake you live in the United States where people sue each other for funny looks.
If I get injured in an accident when the airbags could of prevented the injury and I found out the owner remove the black box which disables the airbags, damn right I would sue your ***. There is your legal recourse
give your head a shake you live in the United States where people sue each other for funny looks.If I get injured in an accident when the airbags could of prevented the injury and I found out the owner remove the black box which disables the airbags, damn right I would sue your ***. There is your legal recourse
Who's gonna sue? Me, maybe my wife. I know maybe my partner in our Race team that actually pulled the bags will sue me, or my Dog who somtimes rides shotgun. I'm sure she's got a solid case
My Bags have been out for two years for weight savings on the track. Most of the time I don't even have my passenger seat in. and if I do it's one of the three mentioned in the car.
Don't be so quick to judge something you know little to nothing about.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 23,234
Likes: 4
From: All that glitters is Gold - Hockey Is CANADA'S game
Cruise-In VI Veteran
Cruise-In VII Veteran
St. Jude Donor '05-'06
Originally Posted by Aquaman
Who's gonna sue? Me, maybe my wife. I know maybe my partner in our Race team that actually pulled the bags will sue me, or my Dog who somtimes rides shotgun. I'm sure she's got a solid case
My Bags have been out for two years for weight savings on the track. Most of the time I don't even have my passenger seat in. and if I do it's one of the three mentioned in the car.
Don't be so quick to judge something you know little to nothing about.
My Bags have been out for two years for weight savings on the track. Most of the time I don't even have my passenger seat in. and if I do it's one of the three mentioned in the car.
Don't be so quick to judge something you know little to nothing about.
All I was making reference to is that there is legal recourse if you decide to remove the black box which disables the airbag when driving on the street with passangers.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,667
Likes: 0
From: TurtleCreek Twp Ohio
Cruise-In III Veteran
Originally Posted by Zilla
I don't see in your post that I first responded to, you making any mention you took the airbags out for weight reduction or that your car is only used on the track.
All I was making reference to is that there is legal recourse if you decide to remove the black box which disables the airbag when driving on the street with passangers.
All I was making reference to is that there is legal recourse if you decide to remove the black box which disables the airbag when driving on the street with passangers.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,427
Likes: 2
From: Fountain Inn, South Carolina
You might as well put camera's on every inch of street across the country to see what everyone is doing. Put GPS on every car for the sake of Big Brother.
It's just a convienant way of replacing big brother spies ... with electronics spies.
All you people with GPS and Onstar... just watch for the time your wife supeanas vehicle location records to see if you are cheating.
Watch out for the GPS arm implant .... i'm sure it's just around the corner.
It's just a convienant way of replacing big brother spies ... with electronics spies.
All you people with GPS and Onstar... just watch for the time your wife supeanas vehicle location records to see if you are cheating.
Watch out for the GPS arm implant .... i'm sure it's just around the corner.
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,454
Likes: 3
From: Hells Sister City Phoenix AZ
St. Jude Donor '03
Originally Posted by Zilla
You should only worry about the black box only if you plan on driving like an ***. The black box can be you worst enemy or your best friend. It can save you when some witness claims you were going 100mph but the black box shows you doing the speed limit.
You make the choice
You make the choice
and tell me that every witness to an accident involving a Corvette isn't going to estimate it's speed at least 25% higher than actual speed! 
You all know if we're doing 50 witnesses will tell the cops you're doing at least 75mph. I'd just as soon they get accurate info.
Last edited by eddie44; Jan 17, 2005 at 06:20 PM.
Racer
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
From: Baton Rouge Louisiana
Originally Posted by Aquaman
As with the seat belt it's up to them to use it. Anyone who gets in my car knows I have no air bags and if they choose not to put on the 5 point or seat belt their saftey is in their own hands not mine.
Don't count on it! Look what's happening to this guy!
http://2theadvocate.com/stories/0113...crash001.shtml
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 37,329
Likes: 12
From: Plano Texas
CI 6-7-8-9 Veteran
CI-VI Car Show Winner
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
Originally Posted by Zilla
You should only worry about the black box only if you plan on driving like an ***. The black box can be you worst enemy or your best friend. It can save you when some witness claims you were going 100mph but the black box shows you doing the speed limit.
You make the choice
You make the choice
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Advanced
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: Columbus Ohio
As the neurotic Jack Weston said to Alan Alda in "The Four Seasons":
First, for street use it's not worth mucking with the SRS.
Second, I'll take responsibility for my actions, thank you, whether I happen to be obeying the law during those five seconds or not. And if the the truth is in the box, I'll stand by that -- good or bad.
I mean, if I'm speeding and get caught, I'll pay the ticket. To fight it would be a waste of your taxes and a misuse of an already-clogged court system.
"How come everyone thinks I'm paranoid?"
First, for street use it's not worth mucking with the SRS.
Second, I'll take responsibility for my actions, thank you, whether I happen to be obeying the law during those five seconds or not. And if the the truth is in the box, I'll stand by that -- good or bad.
I mean, if I'm speeding and get caught, I'll pay the ticket. To fight it would be a waste of your taxes and a misuse of an already-clogged court system.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,275
Likes: 6
From: Lake Oswego, Near Portland Oregon
Originally Posted by George8211
You might as well put camera's on every inch of street across the country to see what everyone is doing. Put GPS on every car for the sake of Big Brother.It's just a convienant way of replacing big brother spies ... with electronics spies.All you people with GPS and Onstar... just watch for the time your wife supeanas vehicle location records to see if you are cheating. Watch out for the GPS arm implant .... i'm sure it's just around the corner.
Watch out for the GPS arm implant .... i'm sure it's just around the corner. Human ID and tracking implants already exist and are being mandated in some countries for certain Federal employee classes.
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,010
Likes: 1
From: SE Idaho
St. Jude Contributor
Originally Posted by DTWC5
Does anyone know if it is possible to disconnect the Crash Data Recorder (CDR) that GM has installed in Corvettes? I have a 2000 C5. The data recorder by these systems can be used against you in case of a crash not only by lawyers but by your insurance company.
I understand about the safe driving and I do that. I also have a 2003 GMC Pickup with OnStar. I have been told that the SDM data is sent to OnStar to be relayed to GM when the signal goes to OnStar that the vehicle has been in a wreck and emergency vehicles are called. I am trying to investigate this also. I am not worried about the data, but I certainly want my attorney to review it before anyone else does. Attorney's have a way of taking the truth an use it against you. If I can not control the data, I do not want anyone getting it.
I understand about the safe driving and I do that. I also have a 2003 GMC Pickup with OnStar. I have been told that the SDM data is sent to OnStar to be relayed to GM when the signal goes to OnStar that the vehicle has been in a wreck and emergency vehicles are called. I am trying to investigate this also. I am not worried about the data, but I certainly want my attorney to review it before anyone else does. Attorney's have a way of taking the truth an use it against you. If I can not control the data, I do not want anyone getting it.
Information on the SDM can be subpoenaed by the police, in fact a good friend of mine just received a subpoena by the police for information on a SDM installed in a Saturn (he is a product investigator). The police believe the Saturn was NOT at fault, and want the info to help prove their case against the person who owns the car that was hit in the accident.
Onstar is so over worked they do no have the time to watch your ever move.
Older vettes only had five seconds recorded, while newer ones get 10 seconds recorded. The recorded information is erased when the car is shut down, unless the air bags deploy or stage to a near deployment, at which time the last five or ten seconds is stored in the memory.
The box is quite indestructible, so unless you hit the exact board storing the memory, a .45 may not work.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 770
Likes: 0
From: Nassau County New York
I wouldn't be so concerned about taking the box out, but i would like to know 'i could'. Say after an accident I would like possesion of it just so it can't be turned against me.
About the onstar...i'm gonna throw in my .02. My father has a '00 tahoe with onstar. I had been tinkering with it to hook up my laptop so i can use it for my own home-brewed GPS system (featured in the NY Time about a year ago) and one thing i noticed is that the onstar remains active even if you choose not to pay for the service anymore. I flash the unit with a samll BASIC program to change the protocol and baud rate so it will work with my laptop using MS Streets and Trips and even still the onstar light changes to 'red' full time instead of green, but it still has anywhere from 5-9 satelittes tracking you at any giving time. If you hit the button nothing happens, but i'm not sure if it dials in the event of an accident. I believe OnStar 'CAN' access the crash typ of data, i just don't know if they do or not.
About the onstar...i'm gonna throw in my .02. My father has a '00 tahoe with onstar. I had been tinkering with it to hook up my laptop so i can use it for my own home-brewed GPS system (featured in the NY Time about a year ago) and one thing i noticed is that the onstar remains active even if you choose not to pay for the service anymore. I flash the unit with a samll BASIC program to change the protocol and baud rate so it will work with my laptop using MS Streets and Trips and even still the onstar light changes to 'red' full time instead of green, but it still has anywhere from 5-9 satelittes tracking you at any giving time. If you hit the button nothing happens, but i'm not sure if it dials in the event of an accident. I believe OnStar 'CAN' access the crash typ of data, i just don't know if they do or not.
Instructor
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
From: Cicero IN
Originally Posted by DTWC5
Does anyone know if it is possible to disconnect the Crash Data Recorder (CDR) that GM has installed in Corvettes? I have a 2000 C5. The data recorder by these systems can be used against you in case of a crash not only by lawyers but by your insurance company.
I understand about the safe driving and I do that. I also have a 2003 GMC Pickup with OnStar. I have been told that the SDM data is sent to OnStar to be relayed to GM when the signal goes to OnStar that the vehicle has been in a wreck and emergency vehicles are called.
I understand about the safe driving and I do that. I also have a 2003 GMC Pickup with OnStar. I have been told that the SDM data is sent to OnStar to be relayed to GM when the signal goes to OnStar that the vehicle has been in a wreck and emergency vehicles are called.
Pro
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 576
Likes: 1
From: Newport News Virginia
Originally Posted by '99 Feather
Don't count on it! Look what's happening to this guy!
http://2theadvocate.com/stories/0113...crash001.shtml
Moderator
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 11,771
Likes: 1,369
From: US
Don't think that argument will hold. Same basic one that we delt with in the '70s on emission equipment. The feeling was that the dealer could not touch (ie, remove) the emission equipment as it was federaly required. But it was you vehicle and you could do with it as you please and if you (not the dealer) wanted to remove the emission equipment you could. We all know that that argument never held up.
uhhh, this argument misses the argument. The reason noone can remove emissions equipment is that there are FEDERAL REGULATIONS that actually prohibit it. So, noone-- not even the owner of the car -- can remove the emission equipment and use public roads...
As for the computer...
there's no law prohibiting the removal of it, or no law actually requiring it, to my knowlege, so, it's not illegal in that sense..
BUT
That doesn't stop someone from filing a civil suit against you alleging negligence... the question always comes down to (with variations state to state) did you act as the (mythical) reasonably prudent person (RPP for those that suffered through law school) in the same or similar circumstances?
sorry-- couldn't help that one.
Last edited by JMG2; Jan 17, 2005 at 08:58 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,887
Likes: 2
From: Havin' fun in Frederick, MD!!!
St. Jude Donor '05 '09
Originally Posted by 12stepvette
Of course I can`t guess what the legalities of such an action would be.
If there is any [il]legality related to disconnection of such a box, It's a law that needs to go. Our legislature (federal, state and local) spend way too much time making new laws! Can you imagine how many ridiculous laws we will have 200 years from now!? I think we need a balanced budget for laws! One new law - one has to go.
Corvette ***** OG
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,776
Likes: 21
From: Charlotte NC
St. Jude Donor '05
CI VI Veteran
I've been in the bodyshop business for over 20 years and have NEVER once seen an investigator pull the SRS control unit to check speed, braking, etc, etc... even when the customer had a lawsuit against Acura stating that the airbag went off when it shouldn't have.
Personally, I think this is being overly paranoid. If you get into an accident, I doubt anyone is pulling your SRS box.
Just my .02
Mark
Personally, I think this is being overly paranoid. If you get into an accident, I doubt anyone is pulling your SRS box.
Just my .02
Mark
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,427
Likes: 2
From: Fountain Inn, South Carolina
Originally Posted by lemansbleu2004
You've pushed my buttons now!
If there is any [il]legality related to disconnection of such a box, It's a law that needs to go. Our legislature (federal, state and local) spend way too much time making new laws!.... One new law - one has to go.
If there is any [il]legality related to disconnection of such a box, It's a law that needs to go. Our legislature (federal, state and local) spend way too much time making new laws!.... One new law - one has to go.
OK... Now YOU pushed one of my buttons
I'm with you... they will create another 10,000 pages of new laws this year..... and zero pages will be removed from the last 50 years.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,037
Likes: 9,801
From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Interesting discussion of everything except the subject. There is no law that forces the mfg to put the box in the car. The mfg. uses it to get real world crash data so they can make cars safer in the future. the data is coded and it takes proprietary software to be able to read it. As with anything other evidence that exists the data can be subpoenaed for use in court to prove or disprove various claims. If you can take it out without disabling the air bags go for it. If you can't and don't mind the extra risk of not having air bags then go for it again and hope you live through any moments that may happen in the future.
Bill
Bill
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 881
Likes: 1
From: Hernando MS
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07
Originally Posted by lemansbleu2004
You've pushed my buttons now!
If there is any [il]legality related to disconnection of such a box, It's a law that needs to go. Our legislature (federal, state and local) spend way too much time making new laws! Can you imagine how many ridiculous laws we will have 200 years from now!? I think we need a balanced budget for laws! One new law - one has to go.
If there is any [il]legality related to disconnection of such a box, It's a law that needs to go. Our legislature (federal, state and local) spend way too much time making new laws! Can you imagine how many ridiculous laws we will have 200 years from now!? I think we need a balanced budget for laws! One new law - one has to go.
My statement was a disclaimer, since I don`t know the laws well enough to comment one way or the other about this issue...one thing is for sure..it started a "spirited discussion" with alot of valid points to ponder.