Crash Data Recorder Removal?
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,667
Likes: 0
From: TurtleCreek Twp Ohio
Cruise-In III Veteran
Originally Posted by '99 Feather
Don't count on it! Look what's happening to this guy!
http://2theadvocate.com/stories/0113...crash001.shtml
"Whether she was wearing her seat belt or not, that's irrelevant," Brown said. "In this particular situation, we can't explore the possibilities, we have to explore the evidence, and that's what we're doing - thoroughly investigating what happened in this crash."
Thanks for the link
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 10,233
Likes: 21
From: Baltimore suburbs Maryland
I have an idea- what if you placed an explosive device right above that module that will deploy with the airbags- either that or something that can generate a very large EMI field that would destroy the unit when the airbags go off?
On the other hand- I think it is rather unfair that just because you happen to be driving a black box equipped car that is more evidence that can be presented against you. What if you are driving another make/model/year that doesnt have the black box?
But- I have heard that there was a few cases in which the black box data actually worked in favor of the defendant. IE, the police say you were speeding etc and caused the crash when you were actually driving normally.
On the other hand- I think it is rather unfair that just because you happen to be driving a black box equipped car that is more evidence that can be presented against you. What if you are driving another make/model/year that doesnt have the black box?
But- I have heard that there was a few cases in which the black box data actually worked in favor of the defendant. IE, the police say you were speeding etc and caused the crash when you were actually driving normally.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,752
Likes: 3
From: Bethlehem PA
Originally Posted by Zilla
No legal recourse
give your head a shake you live in the United States where people sue each other for funny looks.
If I get injured in an accident when the airbags could of prevented the injury and I found out the owner remove the black box which disables the airbags, damn right I would sue your ***. There is your legal recourse
give your head a shake you live in the United States where people sue each other for funny looks.If I get injured in an accident when the airbags could of prevented the injury and I found out the owner remove the black box which disables the airbags, damn right I would sue your ***. There is your legal recourse
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,752
Likes: 3
From: Bethlehem PA
Originally Posted by FiberglassFan
This aint so funny,,,,Most of England's hiway and main feeder roads are now covered by computer aided camera systems.....WITH license plate readers......
Human ID and tracking implants already exist and are being mandated in some countries for certain Federal employee classes.
Human ID and tracking implants already exist and are being mandated in some countries for certain Federal employee classes.
There's already enough weird stuff going on that 99% of us are blissfully unaware of.
Do a search on "janet airlines". Pretty wild stuff.
Scott
Pro
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 597
Likes: 0
From: You want HOW much for that Corvette part??? Atlanta GA
Originally Posted by Zilla
You should only worry about the black box only if you plan on driving like an ***. The black box can be you worst enemy or your best friend. It can save you when some witness claims you were going 100mph but the black box shows you doing the speed limit.
You make the choice
You make the choice
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,561
Likes: 448
From: Atlanta metro Ga.
I'm not advocating the removal of the black box (esp. at the expense of airbag deployment), but one thing I can not stand is the "if you aren’t doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" mentality that more and more Americans (and the rest of the world) have.. Part of me feels like they don't deserve to live in this country.
To clarify, given a choice of somehow making it impossible for one man to murder another man, vs. allowing that possibility but face extreme penalties for the act, I'll always choose to allow the murder. It's called free will folks. Don’t ever give it up!
Rent (or better yet buy) Stanley Kubrick's masterpiece "A Clockwork Orange" if you don't understand my point of view.
To clarify, given a choice of somehow making it impossible for one man to murder another man, vs. allowing that possibility but face extreme penalties for the act, I'll always choose to allow the murder. It's called free will folks. Don’t ever give it up!
Rent (or better yet buy) Stanley Kubrick's masterpiece "A Clockwork Orange" if you don't understand my point of view.
Last edited by Dan_the_C5_Man; Jan 18, 2005 at 11:58 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,157
Likes: 5
From: Eastern PA
WRT another CF post @ http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...1&page=1&pp=20 -
This happened in 2002. Drivers of the 'Vette/Merc were 17/19 @ the time of the crash. 
Originally Posted by Zoomfast
Check out the news article at http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1105364095740 about police seizing the "Black Box" out of a wrecked Vette for evidence against its owner.
Car's Black Box Evidence Ruled Admissible
Car's Black Box Evidence Ruled Admissible
Originally Posted by Law.com
Evidence gleaned from a car's "black box" -- a computer module that, among other things, records a vehicle's speed in the last five seconds before airbags deploy in a collision -- will be admissible in the New York trial of two men charged with second-degree murder...
As they approached the Muttontown Road [Nassau County, N.Y.] intersection, Soukup, driving a 2002 Chevrolet Corvette at nearly 130 miles per hour, slammed into a 1993 Jeep Cherokee, tearing that vehicle in half.
A split second later, Slade, driving a 2002 Mercedes, rammed into the front end of the Jeep, knocking it 300 yards up the road...
One of the Cherokee's occupants, Sophia Bretous, was dead at the scene. Her companion, Jean Desir, died later that night at the Nassau University Medical Center.
As they approached the Muttontown Road [Nassau County, N.Y.] intersection, Soukup, driving a 2002 Chevrolet Corvette at nearly 130 miles per hour, slammed into a 1993 Jeep Cherokee, tearing that vehicle in half.
A split second later, Slade, driving a 2002 Mercedes, rammed into the front end of the Jeep, knocking it 300 yards up the road...
One of the Cherokee's occupants, Sophia Bretous, was dead at the scene. Her companion, Jean Desir, died later that night at the Nassau University Medical Center.
Pro
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 528
Likes: 0
From: Thousand Oaks CA
Originally Posted by Zilla
You should only worry about the black box only if you plan on driving like an ***. The black box can be you worst enemy or your best friend. It can save you when some witness claims you were going 100mph but the black box shows you doing the speed limit.
You make the choice
You make the choice
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,382
Likes: 250
Originally Posted by drosenth
My company developed the SDM for GM, so if you are really interested in this, let me know and I'll do some research and share what I can (public domain info of course). In the past I have worked with the group that analyzed crash data, as well as the folks that develop the air bag deployment algorithm. I think you have your answer, but if you need more info let me know since I still have connections into the team.
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: Atlantis FL
I don't mean to be argumentative but you MAY disconnect a safety feature on your vehicle if you wish. It is NOT against the law to disable your airbags. However, you must inform your insurance company or you may be committing fraud because most insurance companies offer a small discount for passive restraints. It typically doesn't require a great deal of electrical wizardry to by-pass such systems so that one does not pick up DTC codes and warning lights.
Also, if you live a state that does not perform or require emissions testing then you can remove your cats also. It's not environmentally responsible but neither is driving this car in the first place.
Under some of the arm-chair legal theories expressed in this thread I suppose disconnecting the CAGS is also illegal because it was intended to improve gas mileage in order to avoid "gas guzzler" tax. So, if you eliminated CAGS then you owe the U.S. govt. back "gas guzzler" taxes??? I don't think so.
Also, if you live a state that does not perform or require emissions testing then you can remove your cats also. It's not environmentally responsible but neither is driving this car in the first place.
Under some of the arm-chair legal theories expressed in this thread I suppose disconnecting the CAGS is also illegal because it was intended to improve gas mileage in order to avoid "gas guzzler" tax. So, if you eliminated CAGS then you owe the U.S. govt. back "gas guzzler" taxes??? I don't think so.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 5,294
Likes: 2
From: Suffolk, Long Island NY
Originally Posted by kedvesh
WRT another CF post @ http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...1&page=1&pp=20 -
This happened in 2002. Drivers of the 'Vette/Merc were 17/19 @ the time of the crash.
This happened in 2002. Drivers of the 'Vette/Merc were 17/19 @ the time of the crash.
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
From: Columbus Ohio
Originally Posted by Face
...picture yourself getting into a accident at 15-20 mph over the limit, a lawyer would have a field day with you in court, meanwhile you were just keeping up with traffic.
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Marietta GA
Originally Posted by drosenth
My company developed the SDM for GM, so if you are really interested in this, let me know and I'll do some research and share what I can (public domain info of course). In the past I have worked with the group that analyzed crash data, as well as the folks that develop the air bag deployment algorithm. I think you have your answer, but if you need more info let me know since I still have connections into the team.
Thread Starter
Cruising
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: Marietta GA
Originally Posted by Aquaman
Who's gonna sue? Me, maybe my wife. I know maybe my partner in our Race team that actually pulled the bags will sue me, or my Dog who somtimes rides shotgun. I'm sure she's got a solid case
My Bags have been out for two years for weight savings on the track. Most of the time I don't even have my passenger seat in. and if I do it's one of the three mentioned in the car.
Don't be so quick to judge something you know little to nothing about.
My Bags have been out for two years for weight savings on the track. Most of the time I don't even have my passenger seat in. and if I do it's one of the three mentioned in the car.
Don't be so quick to judge something you know little to nothing about.
Heel & Toe
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Taking this thread in a slightly different direction.. is this module the same thing the dealer could pull data from or is that stored somewhere different? I have always heard that they [dealer]could pull up your data such as RPMS and speeds and all that not related to a crash. True or false?
Chris
Chris
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 836
Likes: 0
From: Colorado Springs, Colo., USA
"You should only worry about the black box only if you plan on driving like an ***."
I agree, Zilla.
C'mon, if you are driving on a public roadway in such a way that the "black box" can contribute to your legal woes, then I sure as hell don't want to be on the road at the same time with you! This overworked topic becomes a litmus test for our collective paranoia. If you want to drive at the edge, get to a race track or a sanctioned autocross. I'll stand there and cheer you on!
I agree, Zilla.
C'mon, if you are driving on a public roadway in such a way that the "black box" can contribute to your legal woes, then I sure as hell don't want to be on the road at the same time with you! This overworked topic becomes a litmus test for our collective paranoia. If you want to drive at the edge, get to a race track or a sanctioned autocross. I'll stand there and cheer you on!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 3,382
Likes: 250
Originally Posted by Dan_the_C5_Man
I'm not advocating the removal of the black box (esp. at the expense of airbag deployment), but one thing I can not stand is the "if you aren’t doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about" mentality that more and more Americans (and the rest of the world) have.. Part of me feels like they don't deserve to live in this country.
To clarify, given a choice of somehow making it impossible for one man to murder another man, vs. allowing that possibility but face extreme penalties for the act, I'll always choose to allow the murder. It's called free will folks. Don’t ever give it up!
Rent (or better yet buy) Stanley Kubrick's masterpiece "A Clockwork Orange" if you don't understand my point of view.
To clarify, given a choice of somehow making it impossible for one man to murder another man, vs. allowing that possibility but face extreme penalties for the act, I'll always choose to allow the murder. It's called free will folks. Don’t ever give it up!
Rent (or better yet buy) Stanley Kubrick's masterpiece "A Clockwork Orange" if you don't understand my point of view.
YES Totally agree! What do you think of those airport TSA physical pat down searches? Smells like violation of 4th amendment illegal search in the guise of very weak probable cause.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,561
Likes: 448
From: Atlanta metro Ga.
Originally Posted by fatbillybob
YES Totally agree! What do you think of those airport TSA physical pat down searches? Smells like violation of 4th amendment illegal search in the guise of very weak probable cause.
I have absolutely no problem w/ "profiling". In fact, it's an essential tool to catch "the bad guys", whomever they may be! If Islamists fly a plane into a building, then you pat down anyone that looks like an Islamist. Political Correctness is another pet peeve of mine. What doesn’t make sense is to let Jihad Jr. slide past the security check, for fear that it might hurt someone’s feelings, while 80 year old white Grandma gets the full cavity search!
