Third Gear = Neutral!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
Third Gear = Neutral!
I just "speed-shifted" (for you youngsters, that's just a hard, fast,
power-on shift from one gear to the next with WOT) from second to
third. When I hit "third," the engine just revved as though I was in
neutral with WOT!
I know what's coming: "You missed a gear. It
happens all the time!" Not in this case. The shift lever was ALL THE
WAY UP into third gear's position (in other words, NOT in neutral). I had
to jerk it back from that position to get it back into neutral
WTF?!!! I've driven standards all my life and missed plenty of
gears, but none where the shifter was actually "jammed" in the position
it SHOULD have been but the transmission was not in that gear. Has
this happened to anyone else? Bad linkage? I'm freaking out!
power-on shift from one gear to the next with WOT) from second to
third. When I hit "third," the engine just revved as though I was in
neutral with WOT!
I know what's coming: "You missed a gear. Ithappens all the time!" Not in this case. The shift lever was ALL THE
WAY UP into third gear's position (in other words, NOT in neutral). I had
to jerk it back from that position to get it back into neutral
WTF?!!!
I've driven standards all my life and missed plenty ofgears, but none where the shifter was actually "jammed" in the position
it SHOULD have been but the transmission was not in that gear. Has
this happened to anyone else? Bad linkage? I'm freaking out!
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,386
Likes: 192
From: New Jersey
2020 C6 of the Year Finalist - Modified
Here is a list of ?'s I can think of to try to figure out what is going on here:
Was the clutch pedal stuck to the floor when this happened?
Have you looked at the clutch fluid (clutch master cyl.)? If so was it black?
Have you been maintianing/ replacing the fluid?
Did you smell burning clutch material when this happened?
Did you engage the clutch to put the car back in neutral or did you just yank it out of 3rd?
Was the clutch pedal stuck to the floor when this happened?
Have you looked at the clutch fluid (clutch master cyl.)? If so was it black?
Have you been maintianing/ replacing the fluid?
Did you smell burning clutch material when this happened?
Did you engage the clutch to put the car back in neutral or did you just yank it out of 3rd?
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 222
Likes: 2
From: Peachtree City GA
Did the clutch pedal stay on the floor? There is a service bulletin to replace the clutch if you have that situation at high rpms - aprox 6K. They replaced mine for that reason. Mine is an early '05 but I don't know what range of VINs or years the bulletin applies to.
John
John
Pro
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 705
Likes: 0
From: Churchville MD
Get ready for the "you missed a shift dude" comments. I understand exactly what happened because I've experienced the same senario. Car and Driver experienced the same thing as well according to the article a couple months ago.
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Instructor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
From: Conway NH
I have an 05 Z51 and it has happened to me twice so far. The first time I figured it was the clutch sticking to the floor because I was at WOT. The second time I checked the clutch pedal and it returned correctly. The condition is exactly as you described-shifter in third, and the car acted as if it was in neutral. Frustrating to say the least.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,753
Likes: 210
From: North Western Connecticut
Originally Posted by maddogbishop
I have an 05 Z51 and it has happened to me twice so far. The first time I figured it was the clutch sticking to the floor because I was at WOT. The second time I checked the clutch pedal and it returned correctly. The condition is exactly as you described-shifter in third, and the car acted as if it was in neutral. Frustrating to say the least.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,713
Likes: 0
I have heard of that scenario a few times here, and assuming it is exactly as you described (not grinding, not malajusted clutch, not difficult to engage, not clutch on floor), it seems very possible some defect or maladjustment is the cause. If it happens repeatably, you may want to take it in for a warranty repair/adjustment.
That said, however, CF has had a lot of people claim various difficulties getting third (do a search), including the 'false neutral' scenario you describe, but I have tried to watch closely for follow-ups, and many who claimed that changed technique could not help them because they were experienced, good, knowledgable, etc. have not ever come back to say that they got relief from a new part or adjustment.
So.
Maybe the following thread will help you, but it may not. In any event, good luck, and let us know what happens: whether if it was a one time thing, or if it ends up needing repair, or if you are able to manage to avoid it.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1482739
That said, however, CF has had a lot of people claim various difficulties getting third (do a search), including the 'false neutral' scenario you describe, but I have tried to watch closely for follow-ups, and many who claimed that changed technique could not help them because they were experienced, good, knowledgable, etc. have not ever come back to say that they got relief from a new part or adjustment.
So.
Maybe the following thread will help you, but it may not. In any event, good luck, and let us know what happens: whether if it was a one time thing, or if it ends up needing repair, or if you are able to manage to avoid it.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1482739
Last edited by TrackNoob; Oct 8, 2006 at 10:38 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,598
Likes: 0
From: indianapolis indiana
i lpve the idwa of the clutch pedal stuck to the floor....um powershifting is not using the clutch to shift by nature so that is not it. powershifting the rubbery stock shifter is brave if you r going to u need the hurst or b&m
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,713
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by black05c6z51
i lpve the idwa of the clutch pedal stuck to the floor....um powershifting is not using the clutch to shift by nature so that is not it. powershifting the rubbery stock shifter is brave if you r going to u need the hurst or b&m
There may not be some authoritative automotive referee we can go to, but I assure you that many people use 'speed' terms loosely, and confusion often occurs, but by POWERSHIFTING, the OP was almost certainly referring to leaving the accelerator at WOT, but still using the clutch.
(Etiology: No lift = power ON = powershift)
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...ot&btnG=Search
[WOT + clutch]
When me and my bunch have tried to shift without a clutch (esp on cycles), this is almost invariably referred to as SPEEDSHIFTING, and on cars is typically only attempted with straight cut gears, and a blip of the throttle to speed-match various moving parts, not done using WOT. Otherwise is very difficult, and more likely to miss or bind than to actually work, due to hypoid gear, and also synchro drag.
(Etiology: No clutch = two less movements = speedshift)
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...t+&btnG=Search
[!WOT + !clutch]
And, before anyone looks, Wikipedia is ambiguous on this, and ought to be corrected.
IMHO.
Last edited by TrackNoob; Oct 8, 2006 at 10:34 PM.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
I did use the clutch. It did not stick to the floor. Everything is still
working like it should. Nothing smells burnt. I will check the clutch
fluid tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestions and confirmations. Since
others have also had the problem, I think I'll just "granny-shift" in the
future (after all, the car is fast enough without speed-shifting
anyway!).
working like it should. Nothing smells burnt. I will check the clutch
fluid tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestions and confirmations. Since
others have also had the problem, I think I'll just "granny-shift" in the
future (after all, the car is fast enough without speed-shifting
anyway!).
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,713
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by cfunkb
I did use the clutch. It did not stick to the floor. Everything is still
working like it should. Nothing smells burnt. I will check the clutch
fluid tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestions and confirmations. Since
others have also had the problem, I think I'll just "granny-shift" in the
future (after all, the car is fast enough without speed-shifting
anyway!).
working like it should. Nothing smells burnt. I will check the clutch
fluid tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestions and confirmations. Since
others have also had the problem, I think I'll just "granny-shift" in the
future (after all, the car is fast enough without speed-shifting
anyway!).
Sounds like a plan. This is an area of much discussion and interest for CF, so any new info you have going forward -- it happens again, does not happen, you decide to get it looked at.... share it with us if you can!
Racer
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 255
Likes: 1
From: San Diego County CA
Originally Posted by cfunkb
I just "speed-shifted" (for you youngsters, that's just a hard, fast,
power-on shift from one gear to the next with WOT) from second to
third. When I hit "third," the engine just revved as though I was in
neutral with WOT! I know what's coming: "You missed a gear. It
happens all the time!" Not in this case. The shift lever was ALL THE
WAY UP into third gear's position (in other words, NOT in neutral). I had
to jerk it back from that position to get it back into neutral
WTF?!!! I've driven standards all my life and missed plenty of
gears, but none where the shifter was actually "jammed" in the position
it SHOULD have been but the transmission was not in that gear. Has
this happened to anyone else? Bad linkage? I'm freaking out!
power-on shift from one gear to the next with WOT) from second to
third. When I hit "third," the engine just revved as though I was in
neutral with WOT!
I know what's coming: "You missed a gear. Ithappens all the time!" Not in this case. The shift lever was ALL THE
WAY UP into third gear's position (in other words, NOT in neutral). I had
to jerk it back from that position to get it back into neutral
WTF?!!!
I've driven standards all my life and missed plenty ofgears, but none where the shifter was actually "jammed" in the position
it SHOULD have been but the transmission was not in that gear. Has
this happened to anyone else? Bad linkage? I'm freaking out!
I doubt if changing the shifter will change anything.
It happened to me until I read on this forum, when shifting from 2nd to 3d, don't push to the right, just let the spring do the work. Using this technique, I have not had the problem again.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,488
Likes: 27
From: Long Island NY
Originally Posted by cfunkb
Since others have also had the problem, I think I'll just "granny-shift" in the future (after all, the car is fast enough without speed-shifting anyway!).
As I have stated many times before, there is a careful gentle way to utilize the incredible power of the C6, and then there is a rough abusive way to utilize the power.
I occasionally enjoy running through the gears at WOT, and I shift "fast", but when I do, I shift in a "normal" fashion. Not sure if you would call it "granny shifting", but it sure isn't "speedshifting" or "powershifting"... it's just a clean fast shift, using the clutch, and letting up on the throttle during the shift... but doing it fast. My tranny has been 100% perfect since day one, I never missed a shift, never had trouble going into 3rd, etc. The shifter can be a tad hesitant at times, especially when trying to move it fast, but it always goes in with no problem.
Unless you are racing for competition and the prize is pretty big (enough to pay for clutch and driveline repairs), I'd say it would be very unwise to powershift or speedshift a C6. Why abuse the car when it's totally unnecessary? Like you said, the C6 is fast enough without having to use any abusive shift techniques.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,753
Likes: 210
From: North Western Connecticut
Originally Posted by LloydP
You got reverse position. No danger to the transmission though, a solenoid locks the transmission out of reverse over 3 mph. You can still get the shifter into the reverse position though.
I doubt if changing the shifter will change anything.
It happened to me until I read on this forum, when shifting from 2nd to 3d, don't push to the right, just let the spring do the work. Using this technique, I have not had the problem again.
I doubt if changing the shifter will change anything.
It happened to me until I read on this forum, when shifting from 2nd to 3d, don't push to the right, just let the spring do the work. Using this technique, I have not had the problem again.
