Using your analogy, I hope your not a pilot.

 

I've never understood the job bank and getting paid 90% while being laid off. I'm glad to see that go.

I'm a UNION heavy equipment operator and when they lay me or any other person in the construction trades off, you go and file for unemployment.

I hope for the sake of this country that the Big 3 survive.

 

This is a great question. The way I see it, there ar two obvious extremes: The Union and Rank and File become embittered and vindictive and take it out on the manufacturer to the ultimate detriment of themselves and the customer; or they suck it up, recognize it as a fact of life in a global economy and allow pride and craftsmanship to guide thier behavior. I think it will depend on the culture of the area, union culture and the union leadership. I have my opinion of what will really happen, but I'd rather hear from members of the rank and file.

 

How would you like your job outsourced? I agree the UAW is getting away with some ridiculous things but I don't know any rich line workers and to put all this on the auto workers is just wrong without blaming management as well. Last I looked Japanese cars are not exactly inexpensive.

 

 

34 years ago, nothing has changed, still cant plug a cord into an outlet as of today

 

Good Lord, me too

 

And all the time you were there, you were wining and dining on your company issued credit card in one of the greatest cities in the world.

A 1/2 hour charge that anyone who has ever done business at a convention knows is the way these things are done.

 

I was doing what the company directed me to do. I had no union behind me to save my job if I didn't produce results.

Yes, I did learn that quickly. Bummer that all that money I spent on my college degree and I still had to learn the hard way. But look what it has gotten us.

 

The truth is there should not be any rich line workers.. The skills required to work on an assembly line do not rate it.. There are tons of folks down south here making great pay with very good benefits.. They love their jobs and are very happy to have them.. They work at the Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Kia, Mercedes and BMW plants.. Management has made its share of mistakes for years, But the rank and file UAW folks have been beyond the pale for decades demanding more and more. Anyone with a brain could tell this was coming. You cant pay someone the equivalent of 70.00 bucks an hour to screw on lug nuts and expect to survive in a competitive environment.. And the guys doing it are well aware of that fact.. Nowhere in private sector non union or government jobs do these kinds of benefits exist.. Its well past time for Chapter 11 and kick the UAW out on its collective backside.. The time for them to make concessions was long ago before they drug the whole industry to its deathbed.. I'm sure there are tons of folks out there that will be more than happy to build top quality GM cars for Toyota type wages and benefits.. The Kia plant opening down in West Point GA has over 40,000 applications..

 

That's the way it's done in a city like Chicago, for sure.

Look, there's a good reason for this at the root; in a large convention where the public gathers, you need to ensure that use of electricity is done safely. One thing you do get from the Union is well trained experienced journeymen who understand how to hook up temporary electrical systems safely. This requirement has undoubtedly saved untold number of lives. Nothing like having some kid who is a graduate in marketing and knows nothing about watts, volts, and amps plug in a big display using a zip-cord running under a lovely piece of carpet with nice corporate logos and having the overloaded cord set the carpet and the convention on fire. Bad, very bad.

On the other hand, often times in "Union" cities like Chicago (and I am taking a bit of literary licence here) you find situations where the Union has a lock on providing the "service". So you are forced to pay the Union wage and the minimum time where with reasonable competition any qualified professional can do it and only charge for the actual time required. Unfortunately, so often it happens that once the Union gets in, there's no getting them out, and there is a level of abuse that spirals beyond all reasonableness.

I have seen it many, many times, especially in construction. A Union gets in and they lock the job down. They slow down, making sure that the job takes longer and that way they keep getting a paycheck longer. That also makes sure more of the bretheren have jobs longer. If they are lucky, the job gets behind and it has to go into more and more overtime and weekends. Still they go slow, so need to add more workers. If you don't put up with this crap, they stop working, threaten to quit, or put up a picket. And so it goes. I've seen it all - secret hand-shakes, signals when management walks the job, threats in the parking lot, following people to the bar, resturant and home, vandalism etc. After a while, it doesn't matter who you are, exeuctive, office boy, secretary, or customer, everyone just gets tired of being F***ed by the Union. All this may seem a bit of an extreme scenario, but if you don't think elements of this go on all the time in the UAW, guess again.

Don't get me wrong, I know that people who are Union members are usually well trained and do good, quality work. Some Unions have the highest ethics and paying a small premium is worth it for quality timely work. But there are some that ruin it for the rest.

There was a time when the auto industry needed Unions. The workers were getting screwed, and the only way to get back to fair was to organize. But it's gone too far the other way. Time for a change.

 

I work in UNION construction in Chicago and I will tell you that the scenarios that some describe are non existent. You have a job for today and if you don't produce you are gone. The union will not stand behind you as they want to see the contractor thrive and with union labor. Perhaps in a factory situation grievances will be filed and all that rigmarole, but I assure you that is not the case in big time construction.

 

They're probably thinking . . . "ok, there's more than one way to skin a cat".

 

It just so happens that I do have my degree in marketing. But pluging a cord into an outlet just like we have at home does not take a journeymans license. Trust me when I tell you it was not about safety, it was about them having a job. Oh, and I have been in the electrical industry for the 34+ years now, and I even know ohms law

 

That is the way it should be.

 

I agree.

 

...with you Murph...most of the folks here want to bash our Unions. I also work in the Union construction industry, and have to work alongside the non-union element some too. I am paid hour to hour for the work that I perform. Meaning if there is a rain out, the time charged to my contractor stops as soon as we leave for the day...

Same thing with holidays, if we are off for the holiday, no pay for that day. Thanksgiving and black Friday, two days off, my time charged for last week is 24 hours...a lot of the complainers around here, recieve paid vacations, hoildays, personal "time off", comp. time, and the like...and then want to shout about how the "unions" are unfair or that the $70 per hour is why the big three can't make it. Most don't really understand what the unions have done for this country ie: eight hour work days, pension plans, hospitalization, safety programs in the workplace, worker assistance, and the list goes on...ALL unions have fought to make the work day more productive, and safe, so that we can return to our families happy and more safe, with money in our pension for the retirement years.

Wherever you call your workplace, you have been affected by the "rights" that these unions have achieved for you, either directly or indirectly, whether you know it or not...even the workers that build that Corvette in your garage, all union, made in Bowling Green Ky. from some of the best auto workers in the world. So what gives?

All of this from the owners of one of the finest automobiles on the planet...flame suit on...

 

Are the big 3 going to promise to make good cars in return? They need to make BETTER cars than Toyota and Honda. Who is going to monitor if they are spending our money in the right places and actually intend to build better products? If the Government the UAW and others are going to give up to the big 3 who is going to watch them?

 

1) I would expect the quality to stay the same. Like any other industry, if the worker isn't happy with their salary and their workm quality suffers, they will be replaced by someone who appreciates having a job at all.

2) I completely agree. The last number I saw for average total cost per hour for UAW workers was around $80 hr. No American auto manufacturer will ever be able to truly compete in the marketplace until that number comes down.

 

Makes excellent sense. Many workers have allowed their standards and performance to decrease because they have little fear of losing their job thanks to the union. With the incentive to excel gone, a lot of people will just do the minimum not to get fired. If you have to compete for your job, your performance will reflect your desire to remain employed

Yes, union workers may have to take a salary cut, but at most jobs your pay is generally based on your education and experience, which is the way it should be. That is the essence of capitalism. People seem to forget that unions were never intended to be the entitlement program that many have degenerated into today. Unions were established as a way to protect the worker from exploitation. No one can expect to run a business with artificially inflated wages and remain competitive in today's market