UAW Blinks
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25,615
Likes: 33
From: Chandler, AZ It's a Dry Heat.
It just so happens that I do have my degree in marketing. But pluging a cord into an outlet just like we have at home does not take a journeymans license. Trust me when I tell you it was not about safety, it was about them having a job. Oh, and I have been in the electrical industry for the 34+ years now, and I even know ohms law 
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
Nothing personal man; was not my intent to imply that you don't know what you're doing, but I know from painful experience that not everyone does. Trust me when I say it's both; it started with safety and evolved into being less about safety and more about a job probably only for Union electricians.
We're good
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,489
Likes: 123
From: Kissimme now from LI,NY
while I'm not a big union supporter, I do understand that at one point in time they served a very useful purpose.. That being said I think at this point in time tho, the pendulm has swung to far to the unions side in this instance.... Their pay is really out of line, their benfits are just plain stupid and what they've done is put their jobs in jeopardy because of it.... They are no more important to this country than teachers, cops, construction workers, bank teller or anyone else... The sooner they realize that the better of they will be... And the CEO's of the big 3 are no genius's either..
/joe
/joe
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,822
Likes: 144
From: Retired early,everyday is Saturday...Hocking Hills Ohio
I work in UNION construction in Chicago and I will tell you that the scenarios that some describe are non existent. You have a job for today and if you don't produce you are gone. The union will not stand behind you as they want to see the contractor thrive and with union labor. Perhaps in a factory situation grievances will be filed and all that rigmarole, but I assure you that is not the case in big time construction.
as it should be, my locals approach for the last 30+ yrs.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,753
Likes: 210
From: North Western Connecticut
Recently I needed to install a new HVAC system in a pretty large home owned by our family. We got all the bids in and carefully when over everything. The most professional was a union outfit what had been around about 100 years. They were about a grand higher for the total job using all union plumbers and electricians.
I talked with the owner and told him he was close but I wanted another 500 bucks off the contract price. He said no problem and we closed the deal. I honestly felt better getting the work done from a very professional company that uses certified union workers.
The work was performed flawlessly and every single thing worked FIRST TIME!! All city codes were met and all inspections were passed.
I'm not suggesting the other non union companies couldn't have done the same but I felt more secure using this kind of company.
My point is I have NO PROBLEM with unions providing they can be competitive with non union companies. It's up the unions to understand they simply can't charge thousands more for the same job unless it's somehow justified. There is NO justification in the auto mfg business that can convince consumers to buy a union produced vehicle when it's no better than non union yet the price is higher. That simply won't fly as the Big 3 have already discovered.
Bottom line for me is they can have all the unions they want providing they can compete head to head with non union shops.... If not they simply price themselves out of existence...
I talked with the owner and told him he was close but I wanted another 500 bucks off the contract price. He said no problem and we closed the deal. I honestly felt better getting the work done from a very professional company that uses certified union workers.
The work was performed flawlessly and every single thing worked FIRST TIME!! All city codes were met and all inspections were passed.
I'm not suggesting the other non union companies couldn't have done the same but I felt more secure using this kind of company.
My point is I have NO PROBLEM with unions providing they can be competitive with non union companies. It's up the unions to understand they simply can't charge thousands more for the same job unless it's somehow justified. There is NO justification in the auto mfg business that can convince consumers to buy a union produced vehicle when it's no better than non union yet the price is higher. That simply won't fly as the Big 3 have already discovered.
Bottom line for me is they can have all the unions they want providing they can compete head to head with non union shops.... If not they simply price themselves out of existence...
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 20,054
Likes: 44
From: Swansea IL
Thinking outside the box, so don't get crazy.
Since EVERYONE is going to have "skin" in this why don't the Union's just say - We'll take the exact same package as our manufacturing brothers in "right to work states" adjusted for cost of living differences state to state.
At the same time management and executives should say the same. Everyone put's their cards on the table and we create an automotive industry that includes both union and non-union and the playing field is level. Of course we'd need to know exactly what the imports pay scales and benefit packages equate to.
After that its survival of the fittest.
Since EVERYONE is going to have "skin" in this why don't the Union's just say - We'll take the exact same package as our manufacturing brothers in "right to work states" adjusted for cost of living differences state to state.
At the same time management and executives should say the same. Everyone put's their cards on the table and we create an automotive industry that includes both union and non-union and the playing field is level. Of course we'd need to know exactly what the imports pay scales and benefit packages equate to.
After that its survival of the fittest.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,504
Likes: 0
From: NYC NJ
they have taken to much and given to little back ,I could honestly understand if the cars and service was by far better than the rest but its below the rest .
more money less quality =
Pro
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 679
Likes: 0
From: St. Louis Missouri
The truth is there should not be any rich line workers.. The skills required to work on an assembly line do not rate it.. There are tons of folks down south here making great pay with very good benefits.. They love their jobs and are very happy to have them.. They work at the Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Kia, Mercedes and BMW plants.. Management has made its share of mistakes for years, But the rank and file UAW folks have been beyond the pale for decades demanding more and more. Anyone with a brain could tell this was coming. You cant pay someone the equivalent of 70.00 bucks an hour to screw on lug nuts and expect to survive in a competitive environment.. And the guys doing it are well aware of that fact.. Nowhere in private sector non union or government jobs do these kinds of benefits exist.. Its well past time for Chapter 11 and kick the UAW out on its collective backside.. The time for them to make concessions was long ago before they drug the whole industry to its deathbed.. I'm sure there are tons of folks out there that will be more than happy to build top quality GM cars for Toyota type wages and benefits.. The Kia plant opening down in West Point GA has over 40,000 applications.. 
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 835
Likes: 0
From: Phoenix NY
...with you Murph...most of the folks here want to bash our Unions. I also work in the Union construction industry, and have to work alongside the non-union element some too. I am paid hour to hour for the work that I perform. Meaning if there is a rain out, the time charged to my contractor stops as soon as we leave for the day...Same thing with holidays, if we are off for the holiday, no pay for that day. Thanksgiving and black Friday, two days off, my time charged for last week is 24 hours...a lot of the complainers around here, recieve paid vacations, hoildays, personal "time off", comp. time, and the like...and then want to shout about how the "unions" are unfair or that the $70 per hour is why the big three can't make it. Most don't really understand what the unions have done for this country ie: eight hour work days, pension plans, hospitalization, safety programs in the workplace, worker assistance, and the list goes on...ALL unions have fought to make the work day more productive, and safe, so that we can return to our families happy and more safe, with money in our pension for the retirement years.
Wherever you call your workplace, you have been affected by the "rights" that these unions have achieved for you, either directly or indirectly, whether you know it or not...even the workers that build that Corvette in your garage, all union, made in Bowling Green Ky. from some of the best auto workers in the world. So what gives?
All of this from the owners of one of the finest automobiles on the planet...flame suit on...
Hard to believe some of you talk down on unions but yet you drive a Corvette that was made by union labor.. (union sheet metal worker for 37 years)
Last edited by vettnut69; Dec 4, 2008 at 01:09 PM.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,324
Likes: 0
From: MN
Unions, as a general concept, are not a bad thing. Collective bargaining can be quite useful in certain circumstances. But, the current state of unions is a travesty that should be immediately crushed without mercy. Why?
1. Unions are nothing more than Democrat-funding political machines. Mandatory contributions to union PAC's to fund Democrats? Card check? It is out of control.
2. Unions, especially the UAW, have gone insane with power. Job banks to pay laid-off workers nearly their full pay? Work rules that would put Mao and Stalin to shame (how many union workers does it take to move a desk 10 feet? As many as the contract calls for, no less.)? Wage and benefit scales that are off-the-chart silly (More than $70/hour, on average, for a car assembly worker)? Retiree benefits that are stupid-generous?
If unions were sane, reasonable, and fair, this wouldn't be an issue. If people would get past their own greed and look at the big picture, it wouldn't be an issue. The fact that the Corvette is made by union labor is irrelevant. No one is saying that union workers shouldn't be paid a fair wage or that they do bad work. I am saying that their current situation is totally unrealistic and unsustainable.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,519
Likes: 2
From: Chicago Burbs