Balancer Failure Update
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 24,497
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From: Scottsdale AZ
PHOTOSHOP SPECIALIST
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 16,433
Likes: 40
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16
Just read your response and was wondering if you knew the range of serial numbers affected by this balancer problem? 
If you don't have that information can you tell me where I can get the serial number range??
Approaching 50K on my 05
Tried searching forum, nothing came up
Thanks.
Mike
If you don't have that information can you tell me where I can get the serial number range??
Approaching 50K on my 05
Tried searching forum, nothing came up
Thanks.
Mike
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 53,524
Likes: 77
From: Arizona
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 53,524
Likes: 77
From: Arizona
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,563
Likes: 2
From: Dallas Tx
Ask to see the crank. If it is all grooved up, the tech that did that lower end job is completely incompetent. Definately demand a different tech do the second repair.
With the balancer problem, seems like that would just damage the crank snout. There should be no reason the lower end fails after a crank replacement except for sloppy work. Some techs know how to do in car engine repairs correctly and some don't. They take short cuts like using air powered grinders and scotchbrite pads to buzz off gasket debris. The trouble with that is it throws debris everywhere, which ultimately winds up in the oil scoring the crank, then spinning a bearing.
Or they don't take the time to get the clearance right on the crank and rod bearings, and one of them spins.
Did the heads come off on the last repair? If so, ask if scotchbrite pads were used to grind on the head and deck surface. There will be circular grinding marks if they did. When the shortcutters break out the air grinders and scotchbrite pads, the job will usually come back in a week or two with wiped out bearings from all the debris in the engine.
That's why the service manuals all say hand tool gasket scraping only.
With the balancer problem, seems like that would just damage the crank snout. There should be no reason the lower end fails after a crank replacement except for sloppy work. Some techs know how to do in car engine repairs correctly and some don't. They take short cuts like using air powered grinders and scotchbrite pads to buzz off gasket debris. The trouble with that is it throws debris everywhere, which ultimately winds up in the oil scoring the crank, then spinning a bearing.
Or they don't take the time to get the clearance right on the crank and rod bearings, and one of them spins.
Did the heads come off on the last repair? If so, ask if scotchbrite pads were used to grind on the head and deck surface. There will be circular grinding marks if they did. When the shortcutters break out the air grinders and scotchbrite pads, the job will usually come back in a week or two with wiped out bearings from all the debris in the engine.
That's why the service manuals all say hand tool gasket scraping only.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,261
Likes: 14
From: ,fl.Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.
:bang head: I guess Im due to the fact IM the 2nd owner of the car,went to local dealership for warranty issue,the so called VETTE MASTER TECH, told me 3:15 gear ratio was in my steering ratio
so my confidence in this dealer isnt good, are there any warninig signs of this?
Last edited by Johnny Utah; Dec 13, 2008 at 04:53 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,161
Likes: 1
From: North Carolina
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08
my vin#9615:bang head: I guess Im due to the fact IM the 2nd owner of the car,went to local dealership for warranty issue,the so called VETTE MASTER TECH, told me 3:15 gear ratio was in my steering ratio so my confidence in this dealer isnt good, are there any warninig signs of this?
:bang head: I guess Im due to the fact IM the 2nd owner of the car,went to local dealership for warranty issue,the so called VETTE MASTER TECH, told me 3:15 gear ratio was in my steering ratio so my confidence in this dealer isnt good, are there any warninig signs of this?I did buy the extended warrently bacause of this and the fact that it was a first year car. I have had a few of the minor issues, that were solved early in 05 but the car has been flawless ever since.
I always felt that the break in might have had something to do with the crank pulley failure, as it seemed that most failures were in the first six months with a few I remember being on the way home from the dealers!!. But with failures at 60k miles, this theory goes out the window.
Good luck
Anothercrisis
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CF Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 23,313
Likes: 25
From: Tucson Arizona
Most instances of the crank-pulley 'walking' do not cause such severe damage but obviously in can happen. You're fortunate your warranty covered the damage. I never understood why GM stopped using a keyed crank but all the Gen III and Gen IV V8 engines use a press-fit damper with no keyway. This has been the case since the LS1 was introduced in 1997. I believe GM introduced a revised harmonic balancer with an integral (diamond embedded) friction washer as a production part in the 2006 LS2 and LS7 engines. I suspect this was also introduced informally as the 'fix' on the later model 2005 C6's as well.
Short of pinning the crank, if anyone is especially worried about this potential failure it might be worth replacing your early VIN 2005 crank-pulley with a 2006+ crank-pulley. Or perhaps, just replacing the special torque-to-yield bolt and making sure it's torqued down properly would help prevent a failure (these special bolts cannot be reused...they must be replaced with new one's).
Short of pinning the crank, if anyone is especially worried about this potential failure it might be worth replacing your early VIN 2005 crank-pulley with a 2006+ crank-pulley. Or perhaps, just replacing the special torque-to-yield bolt and making sure it's torqued down properly would help prevent a failure (these special bolts cannot be reused...they must be replaced with new one's).
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,070
Likes: 162
From: Coralville Iowa
You'd be paying a LOT extra - different short block. Usually a warranty item is "old" and "new" are the same part (unless the old part has been replaced by a new one that fits interchangeably - not the case here).
Pro
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 703
Likes: 1
From: Berwyn IL
Most instances of the crank-pulley 'walking' do not cause such severe damage but obviously in can happen. You're fortunate your warranty covered the damage. I never understood why GM stopped using a keyed crank but all the Gen III and Gen IV V8 engines use a press-fit damper with no keyway. This has been the case since the LS1 was introduced in 1997. I believe GM introduced a revised harmonic balancer with an integral (diamond embedded) friction washer as a production part in the 2006 LS2 and LS7 engines. I suspect this was also introduced informally as the 'fix' on the later model 2005 C6's as well.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 8,205
Likes: 40
From: Tucson AZ
You'll likely be getting a new short block. I'd ask specifically what PART(s) failed to cause this. Did they have to replace the crank the first time around because the end was screwed up? If so, I'd suspect someone made some mistakes with main or connecting rod bearings and / or torque specs.
Good luck.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
From: Peoria Arizona
You'll likely be getting a new short block. I'd ask specifically what PART(s) failed to cause this. Did they have to replace the crank the first time around because the end was screwed up? If so, I'd suspect someone made some mistakes with main or connecting rod bearings and / or torque specs.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
From: Peoria Arizona
I did not see your other thread, but I assume someone told you that the balancer working off the crank was is a known problem with 05's. DId it fall within the affected serial numbers?...I am surprised it made it to 60k miles, but at the same time I am worried as I have an 05 in the affected range too!
Good Luck
Good Luck
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
From: Peoria Arizona
Your dealership worked on your bottom end. A part failed in the bottom end after they worked on it and trashed the top end. Your loosing faith in the LS2? I'd be loosing faith in the mechanic that worked on it and probably didn't fix it right the first time. First clue, "it's better than ever"
It may be the mechanic. I have atken steps to get another one.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
From: Peoria Arizona
As mksz51 has already noted, Deceptikon is more likely to get a replacement short block than a completely new engine (as in a "crate"). I sure hate to see an owner/victim go through something like this. The GM regional manager should step in and be personally involved from the moment of the second failure.
Just out of curiosity, Deceptikon, what kind of vehicle has the Chevy dealer given you to drive while yours is out-of-service?
Just out of curiosity, Deceptikon, what kind of vehicle has the Chevy dealer given you to drive while yours is out-of-service?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
From: Peoria Arizona
I bought the car w/ 50K on it. It is a Certified Pre Owned car. This means I have the rest of the 100K power train warranty.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: Peoria Arizona
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
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From: Arizona