LS3 Envy?
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 16,854
Likes: 535
Well, I thought about, like you said, and then looked it up. Seems the
Z51 LS3 Manual is a whopping .1 seconds faster to 60 than the LS2
Z51, manual. Damn it !!!! If I only had an LS3 instead.....yeah riiiiight
Here's what I think, I think you have a hard time justifying the additional cost you paid for your LS3. Or, you flat out have a hard time accepting the FACT that the LS3 you have is only a fraction faster then the LS2,or is actually slower, based on the configurations being compared.
But, hey, that's just my opinion.
See ya'
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,578
Likes: 61
From: Austin TX
I don't have time to 'humor you" The documentation about the 410 HP is all out there on our forum to read. Read it for yourself. All I was doing is stating what has been documented. You can choose to believe it or not. I don't really care.
I am quite comfortable knowing that personally, I have a LS2 configuration (Z51, manual) that is faster than the LS3 base. Proving that tire grip and gearing go a long way to compensate for a lack of 30 HP. Or a lack of 20HP as some people have documented.
I am quite comfortable knowing that personally, I have a LS2 configuration (Z51, manual) that is faster than the LS3 base. Proving that tire grip and gearing go a long way to compensate for a lack of 30 HP. Or a lack of 20HP as some people have documented.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 2,578
Likes: 36
From: RI
St. Jude Donor '14-'15, '17, '19
I gotta' tell ya. You made me laugh.
Well, I thought about, like you said, and then looked it up. Seems the
Z51 LS3 Manual is a whopping .1 seconds faster to 60 than the LS2
Z51, manual. Damn it !!!! If I only had an LS3 instead.....yeah riiiiight
Here's what I think, I think you have a hard time justifying the additional cost you paid for your LS3. Or, you flat out have a hard time accepting the FACT that the LS3 you have is only a fraction faster then the LS2,or is actually slower, based on the configurations being compared.
But, hey, that's just my opinion.
See ya'
Well, I thought about, like you said, and then looked it up. Seems the
Z51 LS3 Manual is a whopping .1 seconds faster to 60 than the LS2
Z51, manual. Damn it !!!! If I only had an LS3 instead.....yeah riiiiight
Here's what I think, I think you have a hard time justifying the additional cost you paid for your LS3. Or, you flat out have a hard time accepting the FACT that the LS3 you have is only a fraction faster then the LS2,or is actually slower, based on the configurations being compared.
But, hey, that's just my opinion.
See ya'
To be honest with you, I am at the point of my life where money is no object to me. I have a LS1, LS2, & LS3. I don't race my cars and very rarely have the opportunity to open them up. I also don't mod my cars. If I want a faster car I buy one. When I got my LS2 I didn't consider my LS1 under powered by any means. I also did not argue that my LS1 was almost or faster than my LS2. Same with my LS3 compared with my LS2. I find it odd that you are so adamant on insisting your LS2 is as fast as or faster than most LS3s. I don't know of anyone that thinks less of a LS2 Vette compared to a LS3 Vette except possibly you.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,314
Likes: 35
To be honest with you, I am at the point of my life where money is no object to me. I have a LS1, LS2, & LS3. I don't race my cars and very rarely have the opportunity to open them up. I also don't mod my cars. If I want a faster car I buy one. When I got my LS2 I didn't consider my LS1 under powered by any means. I also did not argue that my LS1 was almost or faster than my LS2. Same with my LS3 compared with my LS2. I find it odd that you are so adamant on insisting your LS2 is as fast as or faster than most LS3s. I don't know of anyone that thinks less of a LS2 Vette compared to a LS3 Vette except possibly you.
The amazing thing is that after all this time that the LS2 and LS3 have both been out, this guy is still in denial and is still embracing the 410 hp LS2 myth.
After all this time, still holding onto that.
Any belief that the LS 2 engine in the Vette, makes 410hp or more, amounts to nothing more than wishful thinking among those who own those cars and either can't or won't get rid of them, and continue to cling to the belief that technology and progress have somehow failed to pass them by.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; Jul 13, 2009 at 06:30 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
From: Sayre PA
NPP solves most of this. Also why do I se so many zo6 owners try to downplay the zr1? The zr1 looks far better than the zo6 once you see it in person the cf bits, huge brakes, and different fenders all add up to being a unique looking car. Not to mention the zr1 pounds the zo6 in the 1/4.
Forced induction just seems like the easy way out.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,578
Likes: 61
From: Austin TX
The Zr1 is a beast I not arguing that point, it just kind of gimmicky. I am disappointed that Chevy decided to super charge the car. I would have preferred a direct injected engine with maybe variable valve timing. maybe even an dual clutch transmission as an option. How awesome would it have been if GM could have made the ZR1 and had it get better MPG than Porsche.
Forced induction just seems like the easy way out.
Forced induction just seems like the easy way out.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,955
Likes: 22
From: Lehigh Valley Pennsylvania
I have been a "lurker" on the forum for the last couple of years and can't get over the subtle and not so subtle postings refering to the fact that 2008+ vettes have 430HP. I've seen at least one avatar that goes something like 2009, MN6, 430 HP..... Don't most people know that 2008 and newer vettes have a base 430 HP LS3? In some cases it looks like the age old "mine is bigger than yours" comparison!
I have a 2007 base coupe - non z51 with the LS2 400 HP engine. Realizing that the LS3 is a different engine than the LS2, what HP mods can I make to the LS2 to wring out an additional 30HP. I wouldn't think it would be that difficult.
I have a 2007 base coupe - non z51 with the LS2 400 HP engine. Realizing that the LS3 is a different engine than the LS2, what HP mods can I make to the LS2 to wring out an additional 30HP. I wouldn't think it would be that difficult.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 26,714
Likes: 344
From: Houston, TX
The Zr1 is a beast I not arguing that point, it just kind of gimmicky. I am disappointed that Chevy decided to super charge the car. I would have preferred a direct injected engine with maybe variable valve timing. maybe even an dual clutch transmission as an option. How awesome would it have been if GM could have made the ZR1 and had it get better MPG than Porsche.
Forced induction just seems like the easy way out.
Forced induction just seems like the easy way out.
The closest Porsche has come to the ZR1 in horsepower is 605 in the Carrera GT - still 33 short of the ZR1. Fuel economy was 9/15 (and that was before ratings were adjusted down).
So much for going the high-tech route
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Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 29,085
Likes: 14
From: Cary IL and Parrish FL
St. Jude Donor '10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17
There can be only one true and best engine. The l88.
LS2, LS3, LS7 and LS9 are all girly engines. They are good on the track for an hour or two and then the damn car melts anyway.
LS2, LS3, LS7 and LS9 are all girly engines. They are good on the track for an hour or two and then the damn car melts anyway.
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 16,854
Likes: 535
The post questioned if there was LS3 Envy.
Again, to restate, quite comfortable knowing my LS2 configuration is faster than the LS3 base configuration, so, NO, not feeling any LS3 Envy
The post asked for my thoughts, I provioded them. Not sure why you felt the need to chime in.
Last edited by RedC7AZ; Jul 13, 2009 at 06:12 PM.
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 16,854
Likes: 535
To be honest with you, I am at the point of my life where money is no object to me. I have a LS1, LS2, & LS3. I don't race my cars and very rarely have the opportunity to open them up. I also don't mod my cars. If I want a faster car I buy one. When I got my LS2 I didn't consider my LS1 under powered by any means. I also did not argue that my LS1 was almost or faster than my LS2. Same with my LS3 compared with my LS2. I find it odd that you are so adamant on insisting your LS2 is as fast as or faster than most LS3s. I don't know of anyone that thinks less of a LS2 Vette compared to a LS3 Vette except possibly you.
I'm sorry, but you are missing the entire POINT of this thread. The thread asked if there was LS3 Envy. I responded that I have no LS3 envy, and cited my reasons.
For some reason you felt the need to pshcho-analyze my response. I provided the fact that my configuration (Z51, Manual Transmission) is actually faster than an LS3 base, as proof that I should have no need to be envious of the LS3. ....but you over analyzed the response to mean I was dissing the LS3. That was an incorrect assumption.
I have nothing against the LS3. It's just that it simply doesn't offer any additional power or performance over my LS2
Z51, manual transmission, or enough additional performance for that matter, for any LS2 owner to feel any sort of "envy" for the LS3.. or even more ridiculously, as YOU stated it - any "buyers remorse". Sorry.
Last edited by RedC7AZ; Jul 13, 2009 at 07:02 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,314
Likes: 35
It was the only way for them to reach the power levels they wanted to reach with 8 cylinders and still keep it 50 states smog legal.
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
From: Sayre PA
To each there own, I think the ZR1 is neat, however it does not do it for me. Just like I would not buy a ACR viper. I cannot explain it any better than to say the car is a little gimmicky. I think the car would have been neater with direct injection and if they lost that silly window on the hood.
Also, I would not compare a ZR1 to a Porsche Carrara GT, the ZR1 might have more HP but it is no GT (flame suite on)
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,246
Likes: 5
From: West Coast
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZlGM...eature=channel
Not to mention, the price of the Porsche is $450,000
Shoot, I can almost buy four ZR1's for the price of one Porsche GT.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,578
Likes: 61
From: Austin TX
Lap times??? This specific post has nothing to do with "lap times".
The post questioned if there was LS3 Envy.
Again, to restate, quite comfortable knowing my LS2 configuration is faster than the LS3 base configuration, so, NO, not feeling any LS3 Envy
The post asked for my thoughts, I provioded them. Not sure why you felt the need to chime in.
The post questioned if there was LS3 Envy.
Again, to restate, quite comfortable knowing my LS2 configuration is faster than the LS3 base configuration, so, NO, not feeling any LS3 Envy
The post asked for my thoughts, I provioded them. Not sure why you felt the need to chime in.
I have a base LS3 with the only mod being a catback. It ran a 12.3 at 118.40 mph at Firebird, a track that is in your neighborhood. That's why I "chimed in". I'm a semi regular there, and the stock LS2 cars aren't running with mine. I'm quite comfortable in saying that your car stands little chance against mine, assuming you are stock or even slightly modified (if your mods are beyond that, who knows). We can meet at the track and prove it once the weather gets reasonable. Loser buys beer.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,314
Likes: 35
There has been extensive analysis done that support the theory that the LS2 has 410 HP, not 400 HP. Further narrowing the gap between the LS2 and LS3.
(This is probably whey we see a mininal jump in performance when we compare an apples to apples configuration of an LS2 and LS3)
The general conclusion from the theory was that GM did not document the LS2 at 410 HP, so that they would not upset all the 2003-2004
Z06 owners with 405 HP, who thought when they bought their car they'd have the most powerful Corvette for more than a year or so.
(This is probably whey we see a mininal jump in performance when we compare an apples to apples configuration of an LS2 and LS3)
The general conclusion from the theory was that GM did not document the LS2 at 410 HP, so that they would not upset all the 2003-2004
Z06 owners with 405 HP, who thought when they bought their car they'd have the most powerful Corvette for more than a year or so.
on the above statement now. Because thats all it is.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; Jul 13, 2009 at 09:57 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 45,600
Likes: 892
From: Texas
CI 1-4-5-8-9-10 Vet
St. Jude Donor '03 thru '10, '17
Racer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 422
Likes: 1
From: Aurora Colorado
I have an '07 MN6, and I put a Lingenfeldter ram air on it and got a large increase, plus a Corsa exhaust for more, but the sound was the difference I was looking for in exhaust.
Ram air was about $500. including installation, but the Corsa was about $1800. when all was done. I didn't care so much about the performance, especially for 30 hp.
Funny thing, the ram air cost me about 3MPG, but the Corsa exhaust gained it back. Still getting about 30 MPG highway.
Good Luck & enjoy the Ride!!
Ram air was about $500. including installation, but the Corsa was about $1800. when all was done. I didn't care so much about the performance, especially for 30 hp.
Funny thing, the ram air cost me about 3MPG, but the Corsa exhaust gained it back. Still getting about 30 MPG highway.
Good Luck & enjoy the Ride!!