LS3 Envy?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,113
Likes: 8
From: Whitehall PA
It's silly that people think that GM lied or that the #'s were skewed. When something is SAE certified, it goes through some very, very strict testing. When SAE came out and said that the LS2 gets 400HP, that is a 100% fact.
Someone heard or read that the LS2 in Australia made 412HP. The reason why it made 412HP was because they MODIFIED IT, but it was for AUSTRALIAN USE only in the E-series HSV's.
So the facts got twisted and then the rumor circulated that the LS2 makes 410HP+ here in the states and in the Corvette. Which it does NOT. The LS2 in the Corvette makes 400HP from the factory.
Someone heard or read that the LS2 in Australia made 412HP. The reason why it made 412HP was because they MODIFIED IT, but it was for AUSTRALIAN USE only in the E-series HSV's.
So the facts got twisted and then the rumor circulated that the LS2 makes 410HP+ here in the states and in the Corvette. Which it does NOT. The LS2 in the Corvette makes 400HP from the factory.
The LS2 was never officially certified, which allowed Chevy to play with the numbers. If the engine had originally been introduced in 2006, after their policy was to certify all new engines, it would have received a higher rating.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,113
Likes: 8
From: Whitehall PA
Wrong. The Australian improved LS2 rated 417 DIN, which converts to 412 original SAE net
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,113
Likes: 8
From: Whitehall PA
For those involved in this thread, take the time to go back to my "LS2 Certified Horsepower--For LS2 Guys" thread at the following address: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...-ls2-guys.html
If you read this before, read it again, there are quite a few changes. Also read the documentation--it's very important in understanding where the information came from.
When you are done, choose to believe what you want, but if you think the LS2 only makes 395 or 400 horsepower, you’re in a state of denial. Readers of this thread should make a judgement on its content and then interpret as they wish.
If you read this before, read it again, there are quite a few changes. Also read the documentation--it's very important in understanding where the information came from.
When you are done, choose to believe what you want, but if you think the LS2 only makes 395 or 400 horsepower, you’re in a state of denial. Readers of this thread should make a judgement on its content and then interpret as they wish.
Last edited by Marina Blue; Jul 14, 2009 at 01:00 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,578
Likes: 61
From: Austin TX
For those involved in this thread, take the time to go back to my "LS2 Certified Horsepower--For LS2 Guys" thread at the following address: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...-ls2-guys.html
If you read this before, read it again, there are quite a few changes. Also read the documentation--it's very important in understanding where the information came from.
When you are done, choose to believe what you want, but if you think the LS2 only makes 395 or 400 horsepower you’re in a state of denial. Readers of this thread should make a judgement on its content and then interpreting as they wish.
If you read this before, read it again, there are quite a few changes. Also read the documentation--it's very important in understanding where the information came from.
When you are done, choose to believe what you want, but if you think the LS2 only makes 395 or 400 horsepower you’re in a state of denial. Readers of this thread should make a judgement on its content and then interpreting as they wish.
Drifting
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,803
Likes: 17
From: Walnut Creek, CA
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,314
Likes: 35
For those involved in this thread, take the time to go back to my "LS2 Certified Horsepower--For LS2 Guys" thread at the following address: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...-ls2-guys.html
If you read this before, read it again, there are quite a few changes. Also read the documentation--it's very important in understanding where the information came from.
When you are done, choose to believe what you want, but if you think the LS2 only makes 395 or 400 horsepower you?re in a state of denial. Readers of this thread should make a judgement on its content and then interpreting as they wish.
If you read this before, read it again, there are quite a few changes. Also read the documentation--it's very important in understanding where the information came from.
When you are done, choose to believe what you want, but if you think the LS2 only makes 395 or 400 horsepower you?re in a state of denial. Readers of this thread should make a judgement on its content and then interpreting as they wish.
You mentoin your "sources" inside GM who have provided you with this information.
An open question to you or any other active member here.
Has anyone else received this information from your named source and your other two "unnamed" sources.
Can you show us where anyone else has claimed to have spoken to someone at the plant and heard the same thing. And I don't mean referances to the post of the original person who hatched this whole thing. Don't bother referring to his posts from back when. We both know who I'm talking about.
Who in here, aside from the person who initially hatched this whole farce, has claimed to have heard the same thing from GM that you say they, your "named source" and two unnamed sources told you?
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; Jul 14, 2009 at 11:55 PM.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 412
Likes: 0
From: New York NY
This is a cool thread and for many reasons. If you know how to drive your car on the track then the 30HP difference could create a slight advantage but if the car is used as a DD then no need for mods to capture the extra ponies. If you track your car and know how to drive you can basically match the LS3 performance numbers with an LS2.
Learning how to handle the vehicle will compensate for having even fifty less HP when in the hands of a skilled driver. I say spend the money on learning how to drive the car the benefits of which will outlast the cost of any mods and will probably amount to the same expense. OR as other members have pointed out… simply help the car breathe a bit better and tune to liking. Just my .02
Me: 2006 with Z51 “option” + lots of track time =
Learning how to handle the vehicle will compensate for having even fifty less HP when in the hands of a skilled driver. I say spend the money on learning how to drive the car the benefits of which will outlast the cost of any mods and will probably amount to the same expense. OR as other members have pointed out… simply help the car breathe a bit better and tune to liking. Just my .02
Me: 2006 with Z51 “option” + lots of track time =
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,314
Likes: 35
S
So now its 412 hp. A minute ago it was 405-408. Now its 412. If we wait long enough, I suspect that it will eventually become just as powerful as the LS3.
I consider you a friend. This has gone on for long enough.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; Jul 14, 2009 at 01:58 PM.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,578
Likes: 61
From: Austin TX
For those involved in this thread, take the time to go back to my "LS2 Certified Horsepower--For LS2 Guys" thread at the following address: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...-ls2-guys.html
If you read this before, read it again, there are quite a few changes. Also read the documentation--it's very important in understanding where the information came from.
When you are done, choose to believe what you want, but if you think the LS2 only makes 395 or 400 horsepower, you’re in a state of denial. Readers of this thread should make a judgement on its content and then interpret as they wish.
If you read this before, read it again, there are quite a few changes. Also read the documentation--it's very important in understanding where the information came from.
When you are done, choose to believe what you want, but if you think the LS2 only makes 395 or 400 horsepower, you’re in a state of denial. Readers of this thread should make a judgement on its content and then interpret as they wish.
And, why didn't gm publish improved 1/4 and 0-60 times for the Z06 when it has used both transmissions? Why isn't it quicker with the 6060? Why is there NO difference in dyno numbers??
Last edited by AirBusPilot; Jul 14, 2009 at 02:01 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,113
Likes: 8
From: Whitehall PA
Read the thread. 412 was the Net rating of the enhanced Australian LS2. 405 to 408 is the Corvette LS2.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,113
Likes: 8
From: Whitehall PA
Yo
You mentoin your "sources" inside GM who have provided you with this information.
An open question to you or any other active member here.
Has anyone else received this information from your named source and your other two "unnamed" sources.
Can you show us where anyone else has claimed to have spoken to someone at the plant and heard the same hing. And I don't mean referances to the post of the original person who hatched this whole thing. Don't bother referring to his posts from back when. We both know who I'm talking about.
Who in here, aside from the person who initially hatched this whole farce has claimed to have heard the same thing from GM that you say they, your "named source" and two unnamed sources told you?
You mentoin your "sources" inside GM who have provided you with this information.
An open question to you or any other active member here.
Has anyone else received this information from your named source and your other two "unnamed" sources.
Can you show us where anyone else has claimed to have spoken to someone at the plant and heard the same hing. And I don't mean referances to the post of the original person who hatched this whole thing. Don't bother referring to his posts from back when. We both know who I'm talking about.
Who in here, aside from the person who initially hatched this whole farce has claimed to have heard the same thing from GM that you say they, your "named source" and two unnamed sources told you?
You have thrown around words like farce and BS quite a bit in this thread. I won't use them, but do call horse manure (more familiar with that) on much of what has been said here--and it is not coming from me. The BS has gotten so deep that I have to put boots on before entering the computer room.
Last edited by Marina Blue; Jul 14, 2009 at 02:19 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,578
Likes: 61
From: Austin TX
Gm isn't stating that there is anything wrong with the HP ratings of either engine.
Since the Z06 has shown no performance change and no one has shown dyno number differences between the two different transmissions you can conclude that there isn't a difference in power loss.
That leaves chassis dyno averages. Since it's fairly well established that the chassis dyno differences between the LS2 and 3 support the published and certified gm figures, you can draw the conclusion that both engine's published dyno figures are accurate.
Since the Z06 has shown no performance change and no one has shown dyno number differences between the two different transmissions you can conclude that there isn't a difference in power loss.
That leaves chassis dyno averages. Since it's fairly well established that the chassis dyno differences between the LS2 and 3 support the published and certified gm figures, you can draw the conclusion that both engine's published dyno figures are accurate.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,113
Likes: 8
From: Whitehall PA
You voiced your position many times before...I'm OK with that.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,113
Likes: 8
From: Whitehall PA
Gm isn't stating that there is anything wrong with the HP ratings of either engine.
Since the Z06 has shown no performance change and no one has shown dyno number differences between the two different transmissions you can conclude that there isn't a difference in power loss.
That leaves chassis dyno averages. Since it's fairly well established that the chassis dyno differences between the LS2 and 3 support the published and certified gm figures, you can draw the conclusion that both engine's published dyno figures are accurate.
Since the Z06 has shown no performance change and no one has shown dyno number differences between the two different transmissions you can conclude that there isn't a difference in power loss.
That leaves chassis dyno averages. Since it's fairly well established that the chassis dyno differences between the LS2 and 3 support the published and certified gm figures, you can draw the conclusion that both engine's published dyno figures are accurate.
When the Z06 with LS7 engine was introduced for the 2006 model year, an improved T-56 transmission went into the package, which may have made it closer to the newer TR-6060 in performance. I am not able to reference this, but I'm pretty sure I remember smoothing of the gears for better shifting and other enhancements in that transmission.
As far as chassis dyno averages are concerned, we don't really know the true averages as cars on the low end are less likely to be reported...especially with the hype the new LS3 created. Also, there is at least a 25 to 27 HP variance between chassis dyno numbers--how accurate is that? Using chassis dyno figures to back calculate true engine (flywheel) horsepower is unreliable at best. GM's own performance figures are a much better measure for comparison and that does not include either magazine or "The List" times from Corvette Forum, which both are subject to many variables and in the case of "The List" entrants being unverifiable for factory stock status.
Last edited by Marina Blue; Nov 30, 2009 at 09:55 AM. Reason: Complete answer
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,786
Likes: 0
From: Pleasanton California
IMO, this is such a pointless thing to care about.
Either you don't race (like myself), so it doesn't matter that the newer model down the line has a bump in horsepower...
or you do race, and if so, 30 more horsepower is probably well short of your target, considering there are a lot of modded C6s out there putting out much bigger horsepower than 436.
Either you don't race (like myself), so it doesn't matter that the newer model down the line has a bump in horsepower...
or you do race, and if so, 30 more horsepower is probably well short of your target, considering there are a lot of modded C6s out there putting out much bigger horsepower than 436.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,578
Likes: 61
From: Austin TX
Ok. I see it's boiled down to logic/factual data versus hearsay/no data. Not trying to be an *** (now, lol). But that's just what it boils down too.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,113
Likes: 8
From: Whitehall PA
Last edited by Marina Blue; Nov 29, 2009 at 12:03 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,113
Likes: 8
From: Whitehall PA
IMO, this is such a pointless thing to care about.
Either you don't race (like myself), so it doesn't matter that the newer model down the line has a bump in horsepower...
or you do race, and if so, 30 more horsepower is probably well short of your target, considering there are a lot of modded C6s out there putting out much bigger horsepower than 436.
Either you don't race (like myself), so it doesn't matter that the newer model down the line has a bump in horsepower...
or you do race, and if so, 30 more horsepower is probably well short of your target, considering there are a lot of modded C6s out there putting out much bigger horsepower than 436.
Did you ever fix that noisy "B" pillar. Mine came out great, thanks to your thread.
