There is more to red light detectors than you imply. Basically the yellow should last one second for every 10 mph of the local speed limit. Having said that, a neighboring town has very short yellow lights and one can get nailed too easily. Yes the running of a red light should involve pictures but the yellow situation is much less clear cut.

 

Red light camera can be found in Trapster. I'd prefer a speed camera detector... much more useful but then again, I don't drive like a bat out of hell around the streets. Mostly I'd like it for the highways if we had cameras on them around here.

 

Well I don't know how the law reads where you reside, but where I lived before I retired, the yellow light law is quite clear. Yellow (Amber) Light means stop, unless it is unsafe to do so. The guy behind hits you, he was following too close and gets the insurance hit, period. You run the amber, you get the fine. It's in writing in the MVA.

I drive fully expecting some fool might lock up right in front of me, so I have never worried about slamming into someone. I guess is comes from riding motorcycle for 35 years and living to tell about it

That said, rarely is a LEO ever going to be that **** here unless he/she wanted your butt anyway. Ambers are easily long enough to make it through before red here as well.

Of course if some idiot is right on your butt and about to nail you, I would consider it unsafe to stop myself, and would, if the path was clear, blow the yellow, but not the red. He can nail me and pay the consequence of being a poor driver. better that than killing some innocent that is pulling from the green the other direction!

Red light cameras where I used to live cannot really be located as they are moved. They have several locations where there is a red cam box but the cameras were rotated to different sites depending on accident stats.

While I agree that they "could" be timed to build revenues, I do not for a second believe they were used in that manner where I was. It was strictley a prevention tool that actually worked quite well as all drivers were aware that they could be caught if they blew the red.

The cameras there never fired on a yellow. Vehicle had to cross a setpoint after light was red and there is no excuse to be travelling in the intersection at that time.

I DO disagree with them on one point. It tickets the vehicle owner, not nessecarily the driver. Lend you my car, I get the ticket. Of course, nobody but me drives my vette



True Story, was my own sister;

Light turned yellow. She stopped and was rear ended by a public transit bus. Bus driver gets out and while yelling at my sister he says right to her face, and unfortunately for him, in front of witnesses, "why the H*** did you stop? The light was still yellow?"

She sued, she won. Insurance company went after bus driver, he lost. He was asked, in court, whether he, as a pro driver, did not fully understand the meaning of "yellow means stop"
My sister almost started laughing in the court room.

She was off work for 6 weeks, but was fully compensated. He had as many weeks to study up on driving regs at home. He likely would have received a shorter suspension but his comment in public got him extra time off.

So go ahead and flame me all you want. Speed when it's safe, pass when it's safe. Enjoy your cars to the max. I do. But running red lights is just plain dangerous.

B

 

Thank you ever so kindly for clearing that up for me. I will go to the families of the 17 people killed this year by vehicles running Red Lights that I MYSELF handled as well as the 30+ page accompanying reports and tell everyone that Red light Camera's won't save lives accoreding to you.... I also checked and could not find a single rear end fatality this year..... 73 involved running Red Lights. Will they help generate revenue.... yes. Is that the REAL reason our Govt's want them..... yes. Have you ever had to deal with a mangled dead body?? Have you ever made a death notification. Fortunately in my years in Law Enforecement I have never had reason to write a vette owner or even handle a crash involving a vette and another car. Just a vette that hit a drunk prostitute illegally crossing the road at night. He was devastated even though it wasn't his fault. How would you feel if you avoided a rear end collision in which the other car was at fault and instead ran a light and killed someone?? Think.

 

Being a former member of the second largest police department in the nation I have probably seen more dead people then many undertakers. I have seen children, mothers, fathers, and families dead both by accidents and homicides. Now I counsel police officers who witness incidents like the ones I have described. So do not preach to me. I used to live it daily. Now I just hear it daily.

As a former member of the 2nd largest police department in the nation I can assure you I have been to some extremely bad accident sites. However, government as we all know often causes more problems when they try to solve one. In this case the red light cameras in Chicago have caused several serious rear end accidents one in which a child of 2 was killed.

Many city governments as we know care much more about revenue then lives. Of course some of us can chose to live in Disneyland. However, I have to live in the real world.

Now the red light cameras here in Chicago have fines that are beyond what a ordinary working family can afford. So if you ever visit Chicago be prepared to pay a fine or get rear ended. Also, if the minivan in front of you slams on its brakes as soon as the yellow appears be prepared to stop.

 

And regardless, the number of rear-end collisions sky-rocket at intersections where there are known cameras. Even the IIHS was caught (pun)"red"(pun) handed "overlooking" the massive increase in rear-end collisions, even if the number of intersection collisions are greatly reduced.

The only way they work is if they increase the yellow light time to compensate. Increasing yellow light times always works. If there are still issues, then cameras are warranted to save lives.

The irony is that so many contractors have been caught decreasing it, as revenue is typically tied to number of citations given. That's how it begins again and again, before the courts finally step in. If there is one indicator that there are alterior motives, it's the clear number of courts that rule the cameras -- as implemented -- violate due process.

The ones that "work" are the ones that aren't used to generate gross amounts of revenue. I'm not against the cameras. I'm only for "fair" cameras. DC is a perfect example where the cameras are not remotely fair in many cases. But virtually no states have reprocity with DC, so they result in gross revenue generation.

 

Interesting you mention this as Dallas shut down nearly 1/3 of their cameras because people were actually STOPPING at red lights.

So much for safety!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23710970

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...1.468120d.html

 

I said it once and I'll say it again, this forum should be required reading for all LEO's.---- From a 'former member of probably one of the smallest Departments in the State of Fla'.

 

Great post. As I stated earlier government often causes more problems when they try to fix one.

Is any solution perfect? Not at all. But, don't throw out the they are put up for safety. Fines at a $100 a pop with familes struggling to put food on the table it is clearly just another way into citizens pockets.

 

I'm very curious how you (or anyone else) could come to the conclusion that "the red light cameras in Chicago have caused serious rear end accidents one in which a child of 2 was killed."?

Following your logic, very red light/stop sign would be at fault for causing a possible rear end collision and possible death.

 

When you have a family in Chicago have lost or are afraid of losing your job a $100 ticket can be the difference between your license or food on the table.

We recently had a accident in which a young woman slammed on her brakes when she saw the yellow just feet away from the intersection. A truck barreled into her killing her 2 year old son. Her response was she was afraid of getting another ticket. Now she was not sited as ILL law places blame on the driver behind her. But, it makes you wonder if the camera was not there would the child be alive today?

Again we can choose to live in Disneyland and believe the governments intentions are for safety. However, I choose to follow the money and the governments reputation. You do not have to take my word or the officers I have counseled about this. You can read the links.


The Impact of Red Light Cameras (Photo-Red Enforcement) on Crashes in Virginia
Virginia Transportation Research Council
June 2007
The Virginia Transportation Research Council released a report expanding upon earlier research into the safety effects of red light cameras in Virginia. Despite showing an increase in crashes, this study was instrumental in the return of red-light cameras to the state of Virginia. With a proven negative safety impact, the clear incentive to bring back the cameras was money.

Quotes from the study:

“After cameras were installed, rear-end crashes increased for the entire six-jurisdiction study area… After controlling for time and traffic volume at each intersection, rear-end crash rates increased by an average of 27% for the entire study area.”

“After cameras were installed, total crashes increased.”

“The impact of cameras on injury severity is too close to call.”

“Based only on the study results presented herein and without referencing other studies, the study did not show a definitive safety benefit associated with camera installation with regard to all crash types, all crash severities, and all crash jurisdictions.”

http://blog.motorists.org/red-light-...that-prove-it/

Rear End Accidents Prove Deadly
Jun 6, 2009 ... Traffic cameras cause serious accidents in Tucson, Arizona; ... Massachusetts: Red Light Cameras Proposed to Fight Deficit ... A similar sort of high-speed, rear end collision can happen on a freeway where speed cameras ...

www.thenewspaper.com › ... › Red Light Cameras


Rear-End Crashes Go Up After Red-Light Cameras Go In - Column ...
It assumes that red-light cameras at a few intersections will cause drivers ... red-light running should be neatly isolated as a "primary collision factor. ...
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c..._cameras_go_in

Yet Another Study Shows Red Light Cameras Cause More Accidents And ...
So the rear-end collision is not the fault of the driver who had to stop at ..... Of course red light cameras cause accidents, or is it the fear of them? ...
www.techdirt.com/articles/20080313/231629539.

Tennessee: Red Light Camera Causes Overturned Dump Truck Crash ...
45 posts - 33 authors - Last post: Jul 21
Red light camera causes another serious accident this month in .... the light if by going through the the light a rear end collision was ...www.poi-factory.com › Ticket cameras -

 

Lets not blame the reckless driver that just expects everyone to blow the light with him, let blame the camera, and the red light for being there and lets give extra blame to the car that actually stopped for the red light

 

We all know the government is much more worried about your safety then your money.

Sometimes the blind trust in government and the naivete of its citizens is absolutely shocking.

 

Too bad for the OP. Ask a question, get a lecture.

I bet he didn't know how many "dads" he had!

 

Do we know his intentions? Maybe he just wants to be more careful around the intersections that have the cameras. I know I do after what I have seen.

 

I certainly do my part to avoid revenue pits that have red light or speed cameras.

I drive safer knowing that I can concentrate on driving safer and not on having my pocket picked.

I'll watch the action in this thread in the event that my state gets greedier and starts ramping them up.

 

Hate to inject real life into all this hypothetical...now you big boy revenue generators...you keep on yapping. I'm all for anything that would enforce the law and stop something like this from happening.

4 Family Members Killed After Car Runs Red Light

Sunday, November 29, 2009

SANTA ROSA, Calif. — A car raced through a red light and slammed into a minivan broadside, killing four family members including both parents and their two young children in Northern California, authorities said Sunday.
A Mini Cooper driven by a 20-year-old man first clipped a car that was stopped for the light at the intersection of Highway 37 and Lakeville Highway and then smashed into the minivan late Saturday night near Novato, about 30 miles north of San Francisco, the California Highway Patrol said.
All occupants of the minivan — the mother, father and a son and a daughter between 6 and 10 years old — were killed. Their names were not available early Sunday.
The driver of the Mini Cooper was hospitalized in critical condition. He was from nearby Lakeport but wasn't further identified.
The minivan was rendered nearly unrecognizable by the collision.
The Mini Cooper also struck a sedan waiting at the light and three people in that vehicle were hospitalized in Novato with injuries, according to the highway patrol.
"He clipped two vehicles and broadsided the family of four," said Sgt. Trent Cross. "Right now there is no evidence of drugs or alcohol. That could change later, but right now, there is no evidence."
Two medical helicopters and the Sonoma County coroner were called to the scene. The driver of the Mini Cooper was taken by helicopter to Santa Rosa Memorial Hospital. He was the sole occupant of the car.
Traffic in the area came to a standstill and was backed up for hours.
The Saturday night crash had the highest death toll since the 2007 crash on Highway 101 in Santa Rosa that killed five members of a Windsor family.

 

Red light cameras are dangerous for all the reasons mentioned by others . Another stupid idea as we move closer to the **** way of doing business.

 

Why stop there?

Why not confiscate cars and execute folks on the spot?

 

Same here...

On Wednesday, a woman locked in the back of an Arizona Department of Public Safety (DPS) police car burned to death as a result of a rear end collision on Interstate 10 near Tucson. The Ford Crown Victoria models used by DPS are known to explode when struck from behind. Even though the cruiser was equipped with a special fire suppression system, it failed to prevent the fire. A similar sort of high-speed, rear end collision can happen on a freeway where speed cameras are used.

A preliminary examination of Scottsdale's freeway camera program found a 54 percent increase in rear end collisions accompanied the 110,962 automated tickets issued in 2006. These accidents happened as motorists nearing the cameras panicked and braked suddenly to avoid receiving a citation. They were then struck from behind by motorists who failed to react in time to the unexpected maneuver.

A similar panic reaction caused a serious injury accident in Victorville, California, also on Wednesday. According to the Victorville Daily Press, a driver afraid of earning a $426 ticket slammed on the brakes during a yellow light at Bear Valley Road and Seventh Avenue. This driver stopped in time. The driver immediately behind also stopped in time after applying the brakes at full force. The third vehicle behind was driven by a woman who did not stop in time. Her minivan slammed the second vehicle into the first. The woman's injuries were so serious that she had to be taken by helicopter to the Arrowhead Regional Medical Center.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/27/2799.asp