Why do people on this forum keep saying that dealership issues are not GM issues? Does the dealership not represent GM? I mean they send out those stupid questionaires. If it wasnt GM's problem they wouldnt care to send out these things.... Loyalty is one thing but when a GM dealership screws people around IT IS a GM issue.

 

You bet it is, and if customers are truly scerwed around, G.M. should hear about it, and take action. But, some of the stories I hear, here on the CF, do smack of complainers, the hard to please, and the something for nothing folks. There are ALWAYS two sides to every story.

 

You explain this, why do I have a two (2) page warranty sheet of repairs on on 06 C6 Vette that has taken 3 1/2 (3.5) years to repair. GM and "stealerships" use "delay, delay, and delay" tactics to deny and escape from lemon laws. You wouldn't want my $60k piece of junk, yes, a piece of junk. About the only thing I haven't lost is a block and transmission, but I'm sure that is coming. If GM was as good as some people think, why did it file for bankrupcy, to shed debt, etc. Look at the all the honest people who worked hard and lost, stockholders, vendors, etc. GM has even had my car to the Assembly Plant in Bowling Green for three (3) actual days and couldn't solve problems and had me return it to dealers. There is more to these other problem stories than you can ever be aware of, I know, I've been through it. In fact, please don't respond back to this post because I don't want to hear how good GM is when so many have had horror stories. GM even has Customer Service Representatives on the Corvette Forum now to help resolve the many problems.

 

Well, here is a story about complaining!! Yesterday, I took my 08 Vert to my dealership to get the rear end fluid changed. I had that grinding sound when I back my Vert up. I asked the service writer if the mechanic was familar with putting a Corvette on a lift. He looked at me like I was CRAZY. I said I had jacking pucks with me and I could leave them on the passenger seat. He said fine. Well, guess what!! The mechanic put the car on the lift and was going to lift it without the pucks. I went into the service area ....even though it was blocked off with a wall and a door. They have a small window you can look thru if you like and thats how I knew what the mechanic was doing. I stopped him from lifting my car and told him about the jacking pucks. He seemed upset he had to get on his hands and knees and put the pucks in.
I then watched him drain and fill the rear end with the new fluid from the little porthole in the wall. When he was done, instead of doing the figure 8's in the parking lot, like the TSB calls for he took my Vert on a "test drive" to listen for any noise. I asked him if he could hear it over the exhaust. I have the M2W and it is open all the time unless you close it....he couldn't answer. When I get my car the inside door handle is full of grease, the seat is greasy and the scuff pad on the center console is also full of grease from his shoe. I have a Cashmere Interior and it showed the grease easliy. And this is from a Corvette Certified Dealer!!!! Yeah, there are 2 sides to every story.....

 

When something good happens at the dealership people always say its all about GM but when something bad happens people say "oh its not GM its the dealership"... I dont get this.

I just started this post to hear the pro GM/con "independant" dealerships point of view, loyalty aside. There were a couple of posts yesterday where I read, Its not GMs fault...

 

Why GM went bankrupt (and was effectively seized by the government) is a long, complex issue. A core reason Ford survived and GM didn't was that Ford had the foresight to hock everything early-on....GM didn't. By the time the extent of the economic collapse became evident GM was unable to obtain the financing they needed to see them through the crisis. Accordingly, Ford pulled-through...GM didn't.

I sympathize with your problems. Whether you want to hear it or not the fact is 'lemon' cars such as yours are the exception and not the rule. There are lemons with any make car. The majority of car owners have an 'acceptable' amount of mechanical problems and relatively good experiences with dealerships. I own 4 GM vehicles and I'm happy with all of them. I hope you get your 'car problems' resolved...good luck.

 

The whole relationship between dealerships and manufacturers is very complicated in this country. The laws that apply were intended to prevent 'trusts' or pseudo-monopolies. These restrictions should not exist in today's environment, IMHO.

The complications are especially important when dealing with warranty issues. Although GM is interested in the outcome, they are hobbled to an extent in what they can do. It is also true that the dealership is limited in its remedies by what GM is willing to do. It is easy to sit on one side or the other and point fingers. Of course, a dealership is unlikely to do work it will not be paid for (except to keep a regular customer happy if they're a well-run place), and GM is not likely to pay for work it deems unnecessary. That's a fact of life. In some cases a lemon law buyback is cheaper than trying to fix a car.

GM builds some quality cars (Buick in particular, according to JD Power) and some that are not such high quality. What I can say from personal experience is that the actual quality and reputation of a particular brand is not always borne out by real experiences. I've had a Lexus with continual problems that the dealership wasn't willing or able to fix, and I've had a Corvette with problems that the dealership bent over backward to resolve. (It was an early C4)

My current dealership is great to work with, and I consequently prefer to buy new from them. Of course, I've had some the other way, as well.

In my 50 years of buying and maintaining cars, I've found that relationship building is far more important than most anything else in the ownership experience. And, just for the record, I have had one car bought back because of all the problems that could not be resolved, and it wasn't a GM product.

Sorry for the length...

 

Any of these circumstances should never be an absolute because problems exist on both sides of the equation. The problems that exist at the dealership level are very much GM's problem. Where the issue exists however is that it is generally also outside of GM's control. Each and every GM dealership is independantly owned and operated and under license to sell GM products and use GM logos and advertising material. In exchange for that license agreement dealerships also have access to GM's customer service and SPO (service parts organization) information and personnel for assistance. They also get GM service manual information and TSB's for repairs. If they elect to use them and or follow them is more about the practices at the dealership than it is about GM the corporation as they can't force them to take advantage of them. GM has no recourse. The survey's can help to let GM take the actions they need to do to eliminate a dealership but the protections serve the dealership than they do the corporation.

Depending upon the situation that I've seen described, I may very well be one of those people that will point out when the real issue is with the dealership vs. the company. If a person comes in to a dealership with a problem and the dealership elects not to make use of the tools, education and resources available to them from GM, it is a dealership caused problem for GM and there is next to nothing that GM can do about it. However, if a person comes in to a dealership and GM elects not to do something that they should, it is a GM issue that ties the hands of the dealership.

To the previous JD Power reference, Corvette and the Bowling Green Assembly plant are also recipients of the JD Power and Associates awards for best in class. The Corvette was ranked number one in all of GM models in 2009 for quality. The Bowling Green Assembly plant also received a Bronze award tying the Toyota Georgetown assembly plant and the Ford truck plant. This by the way was only one point off the silver award which went to GM Oshawa car plant and two points off the Gold award which went to Honda's plant in East Liberty Ohio.

With respect to the Lemons among us. I hate it but they happen. Far fewer than some would believe but they happen. They happen to Corvette less frequently than they happen to other marques but no manufacturer is immune. How they handle these issues is entirely up to the manufacturer and can certainly make all the difference in the world regarding satisfying customers and some are clearly better than others in this case.

 

Open letter to WayneO and Talon90:

I appreciate both of your responses to legitimate concerns including mine. I have NO PROBLEM WITH EITHER of your responces, I know over the years that you BOTH voice very honest and direct responces to subjects and try not to gloss them over, I hope that you feel the same about me.

Some people get the idea that a Corvette can do NO WRONG but we know that this is always not the truth. Some individuals seem to eat, sleep, and live Corvette which is OK if the Vette can uphold its own. Unfortunately, this is not always the case.

I like to hear your positive and negative responces, they are straight forward and enlightening. As you know, until you walk in someone elses shoes, you haven't walked their road. Sometimes a real eye opener.

Anytime either one of you speak up, I pay definite attention because I know that you have something important to say. Please, both have a nice day and I considered you both great friends even though we have never met. Some day, maybe we will meet.

John

 

i don't have any great friends I've never met in person. For all you know, Paul has two heads, three eyes, and worse yet, a democrat!

 

I should have seen that coming! Paul, you better defend yourself, but be ready to watch all the way around.

 

Paul is a DEMOCRAT?????

 

 

I'm glad you did. I read the same posts and saying it's not GM's fault is

How the dealership performs is a direct reflection on GM and trust me, they have the power to get these "independent businesses" to tow the line and perform to a given standard that reflects the policy of GM Corporate. It looks like GM Corporate is the real issue.

 

While I applaud both the negative and positive posts on this one thread (negative only in the sense that they demonstrate the ills and ailments that owners have withstood), a comment is needed for the above post. I agree with most of it.

The big difference which is not highlighted or mentioned is, up until now, many if not most of us living in, or near major cities have had a "choice" of dealers to service our cars. Thus, we read of "good things happening" at X dealer, and someone else writes in on the same thread "my dealer across town from yours, stinks!"

By comparison, the sheer LACK of numbers of say a Lexus dealership network makes for either one of two things: a good dealer in town. Or, a bad dealer in town. There is NO selection because there aren't enough dealers.

That fact, a combining or de-franchising, has been highly-touted as being a "good thing for GM". Well, only a few on here cried out and said, "hold the phone!" Going 20, 30 or 50 miles to get to a dealer for warranty work is crazy. Yes, it is.

We used to have a choice, and choice means competition and competition means, if a dealer becomes complacent or just plain awful, they run the risk of losing more customers than can maintain the dealership. Forget GM; GM's not going to pour money into failing dealers. We know they are indie business owners of dealerships.

But as the dealership "network" or numbers shrink, it becomes very important to GM and the indie businesses that they change their model of operation---namely, don't lose customers FOR ANY REASON, including bad service or bad product, or both.

The next couple of years will prove whether folks writing above and below this post have gone back to buy GM again.

I do not lay off blame for anything solely on the shoulders of the dealer OR GM. Most times, it is shared, especially if GM is in a position to not enforce anything it says or wants from the dealers. That is assuming, and most likely by now a correct assumption, that GM people know how dealers should treat customers. And even how GM itself should treat customers.

And yes, I am very fortunate: my current location has more than two (more likely close to 4) excellent, great-reputation Chevy dealer service departments.

 

 

Thanks much for this addition. I agree with what you say and was merely trying to point out that there are some underlying issues that sometimes get in the way.

 

Good points. I live in Vancouver, BC where we have tons of GM dealerships (in and around the city). I have had experience with 2 of these for my 94 firebird and 4 different ones for the vette. Anytime I take my car in for more than a simple oil change my experiences have been mediocore at best. Since you brought up Lex, Ill say this. I usually take my 60 yr old father's new Lex to the dealership to get work done and he usually picks it up. I've taken it to 2 different dealerships. So its 0for6 on the GM dealerships and 2for2 on the Lex dealerships. Thats got to say something. I mentioned this yesterday, they treat us and the car like gold. Is this a corporate culture? I'd say so.

I bought a corvette because It all started 20 years ago when I said "I want that cool car with the round lights in the back" lol

 

I only own 1 GM car (vette) but can speak to one issue that really really annoys me. Dealers that can't or won't service vettes shouldn't SELL them.. period... END OF STORY! There are dealers in CT that are completely clueless about servicing a vette but still sell a few.

when a dealership is selling a 50k + car they should be required to know how to service and repair it by the manufacture. You will not find that situation with Lexus dealers if they want to remain Lexus dealers! Not to say all Lexus dealerships are perfect but I'd bet will score much higher in customer satisfaction then GM dealers.

Vettes are specialty cars that REQUIRE knowledge and experience to repair them properly! On average I dare say Caddy dealers do a much better job servicing what they sell compared to Chevy dealers. They also understand someone paid a considerable sum and gear their service to a higher level.

I do expect my vette to be treated with more care than a Cobalt! Nothing against a Cobalt but I doubt most owners will come unglued about some GREASE on the door panel or steering wheel. No, they're not happy but most are simply cheap TRANSPORTATION and that's it! In a perfect world both would be treated the same but we don't live in a perfect world.

I contend GM would be far better off selling vettes through Caddy dealerships and a few large vette dealers grandfathered in. With 100k+ vettes being sold it's time for GM to figure out a way to upgrade how Corvettes are sold and serviced! How many folks are going to enjoy having their ZR1 being handled the same way as the least expensive car Chevy sells? GM can do something about that situation if they really want to....

 

Agree