))Alignment info((
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,296
Likes: 156
From: Location: Location: kAnSaS
))Alignment info((
I read thru an article where the C6 owner was complaining about inside tire wear. He took in for tires and alignment and the shop said the car was real close on the camber adjustment set it more positive and the issue would be fixed. 1000 miles later his tires where trashed agian but this time on the outside. Why? because the tech set the camber on the car at NOT normal ride height.
(Now here's the info): as a former technician and having tore most of my suspension apart I have found an issue i feel some technicians dont know of or pay enuf attention to on these type cars with leaf spring suspensions.
As you may know the car once raised up (suspension unloaded) takes quite a bit to get to "normal" correct ride height conditions. When an alignment is done the tires are raised up off the ground, the machine is set on to the rims and the wheels are "compensated" to your car. When lowered back down the suspension is still kinda unloaded and so techs usually bounce it a bit to get it correct again. Most cars this works fine but leaf spring cars are different.
The fix: Have your tech measure the ride height at each corner (simply measure height from ground to the inside of the fender) ""BEFORE"" he raises it and then after lowering make sure the height is the same. To make a long story short if you dont have the same height the alignment will totally be out of wack and cause more of a problem then you had already. For what its worth, regards, paul
(Now here's the info): as a former technician and having tore most of my suspension apart I have found an issue i feel some technicians dont know of or pay enuf attention to on these type cars with leaf spring suspensions.
As you may know the car once raised up (suspension unloaded) takes quite a bit to get to "normal" correct ride height conditions. When an alignment is done the tires are raised up off the ground, the machine is set on to the rims and the wheels are "compensated" to your car. When lowered back down the suspension is still kinda unloaded and so techs usually bounce it a bit to get it correct again. Most cars this works fine but leaf spring cars are different.
The fix: Have your tech measure the ride height at each corner (simply measure height from ground to the inside of the fender) ""BEFORE"" he raises it and then after lowering make sure the height is the same. To make a long story short if you dont have the same height the alignment will totally be out of wack and cause more of a problem then you had already. For what its worth, regards, paul
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 46,295
Likes: 2,596
From: Northern, VA
St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
I think whomever that technician is has to lay off the drugs. First of all, your car when being aligned, is technically "off the ground". But it is not suspended in mid air with the wheels dangling, is it?
You roll up onto two ramps and the wheels are positioned and then the mirrors/sensors are added. If these technicians mean, by physically taking the car in the air, while still on steel ramps something goes kaplooey, I don't know what to say.
Finally, a bad alignment, or an improper one, is just that, and no more. The car's suspension settings don't change simply by rolling onto the alignment tracks, to my knowledge. If it does, then every alignment and machine is in need of a new design.
if I am misunderstanding something, plz explain.
You roll up onto two ramps and the wheels are positioned and then the mirrors/sensors are added. If these technicians mean, by physically taking the car in the air, while still on steel ramps something goes kaplooey, I don't know what to say.
Finally, a bad alignment, or an improper one, is just that, and no more. The car's suspension settings don't change simply by rolling onto the alignment tracks, to my knowledge. If it does, then every alignment and machine is in need of a new design.
if I am misunderstanding something, plz explain.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 8,008
Likes: 49
From: Hoover, AL NCM Life Member #2438
I think what Paul is talking about is if an alignment is done at same time as tires. The car is lifted with a two post and tires are replaced. Then it is moved to an alignment rack immediately. In this case the car would need to be driven a bit to allow suspension to settle after hanging in the air for an hour or so.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,999
Likes: 200
From: Bay Area Ca.
I think what Paul is talking about is if an alignment is done at same time as tires. The car is lifted with a two post and tires are replaced. Then it is moved to an alignment rack immediately. In this case the car would need to be driven a bit to allow suspension to settle after hanging in the air for an hour or so.
Makes sense.
CF Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 23,313
Likes: 25
From: Tucson Arizona
Interesting post. I don't claim to be any great expert on setup or alignment but two thoughts came to mind that might have some bearing on your post. When I had the transverse leaf springs on the car my racing friend would help me setup the car on his home lift. We measured to hard points on the frame and followed the steps necessary to essentially 'level and balance' the car. We initially found the setup was off considerably from the factory...both side to side and diagonally. The point being there's no guaranty your car is setup perfectly to begin with.
I have my alignment work done at the local Volvo dealership...they have the finest, high tech 'photo-optical' alignment equipment in Tucson. I could be wrong but using this new, state-of-the-art alignment equipment I don't think they raise the wheels off the runners of the lift. I recall driving onto the alignment lift...they set their equipment and proceeded to rack the alignment using the computerized optical sensors as guides. I'm somewhat questioning my recollection but I'm fairly confident the tires remained planted on the lift...the suspension was loaded throughout the alignment.
I have my alignment work done at the local Volvo dealership...they have the finest, high tech 'photo-optical' alignment equipment in Tucson. I could be wrong but using this new, state-of-the-art alignment equipment I don't think they raise the wheels off the runners of the lift. I recall driving onto the alignment lift...they set their equipment and proceeded to rack the alignment using the computerized optical sensors as guides. I'm somewhat questioning my recollection but I'm fairly confident the tires remained planted on the lift...the suspension was loaded throughout the alignment.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 46,295
Likes: 2,596
From: Northern, VA
St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
I think what Paul is talking about is if an alignment is done at same time as tires. The car is lifted with a two post and tires are replaced. Then it is moved to an alignment rack immediately. In this case the car would need to be driven a bit to allow suspension to settle after hanging in the air for an hour or so.
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Racer
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: San Diego ,CA, USA
Why is the car being lifted prior to alignment? Is it due to equipment?
From my experiences the car is driven onto the equipment, accessories attached to wheels (mirrors) and alignment done from there. No lifting of the car.
I have seen where a car is sometimes lifted but then the car is lowered and moved prior to being re-positioned for alignment.
From my experiences the car is driven onto the equipment, accessories attached to wheels (mirrors) and alignment done from there. No lifting of the car.
I have seen where a car is sometimes lifted but then the car is lowered and moved prior to being re-positioned for alignment.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,296
Likes: 156
From: Location: Location: kAnSaS
I think whomever that technician is has to lay off the drugs. First of all, your car when being aligned, is technically "off the ground". But it is not suspended in mid air with the wheels dangling, is it?
You roll up onto two ramps and the wheels are positioned and then the mirrors/sensors are added. If these technicians mean, by physically taking the car in the air, while still on steel ramps something goes kaplooey, I don't know what to say.
Finally, a bad alignment, or an improper one, is just that, and no more. The car's suspension settings don't change simply by rolling onto the alignment tracks, to my knowledge. If it does, then every alignment and machine is in need of a new design.
if I am misunderstanding something, plz explain.
You roll up onto two ramps and the wheels are positioned and then the mirrors/sensors are added. If these technicians mean, by physically taking the car in the air, while still on steel ramps something goes kaplooey, I don't know what to say.
Finally, a bad alignment, or an improper one, is just that, and no more. The car's suspension settings don't change simply by rolling onto the alignment tracks, to my knowledge. If it does, then every alignment and machine is in need of a new design.
if I am misunderstanding something, plz explain.
Interesting post. I don't claim to be any great expert on setup or alignment but two thoughts came to mind that might have some bearing on your post. When I had the transverse leaf springs on the car my racing friend would help me setup the car on his home lift. We measured to hard points on the frame and followed the steps necessary to essentially 'level and balance' the car. We initially found the setup was off considerably from the factory...both side to side and diagonally. The point being there's no guaranty your car is setup perfectly to begin with.
I have my alignment work done at the local Volvo dealership...they have the finest, high tech 'photo-optical' alignment equipment in Tucson. I could be wrong but using this new, state-of-the-art alignment equipment I don't think they raise the wheels off the runners of the lift. I recall driving onto the alignment lift...they set their equipment and proceeded to rack the alignment using the computerized optical sensors as guides. I'm somewhat questioning my recollection but I'm fairly confident the tires remained planted on the lift...the suspension was loaded throughout the alignment.
I have my alignment work done at the local Volvo dealership...they have the finest, high tech 'photo-optical' alignment equipment in Tucson. I could be wrong but using this new, state-of-the-art alignment equipment I don't think they raise the wheels off the runners of the lift. I recall driving onto the alignment lift...they set their equipment and proceeded to rack the alignment using the computerized optical sensors as guides. I'm somewhat questioning my recollection but I'm fairly confident the tires remained planted on the lift...the suspension was loaded throughout the alignment.
Why is the car being lifted prior to alignment? Is it due to equipment?
From my experiences the car is driven onto the equipment, accessories attached to wheels (mirrors) and alignment done from there. No lifting of the car.
I have seen where a car is sometimes lifted but then the car is lowered and moved prior to being re-positioned for alignment.
From my experiences the car is driven onto the equipment, accessories attached to wheels (mirrors) and alignment done from there. No lifting of the car.
I have seen where a car is sometimes lifted but then the car is lowered and moved prior to being re-positioned for alignment.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 703
Likes: 1
From: Berwyn IL
Why is the car being lifted prior to alignment? Is it due to equipment?
From my experiences the car is driven onto the equipment, accessories attached to wheels (mirrors) and alignment done from there. No lifting of the car.
I have seen where a car is sometimes lifted but then the car is lowered and moved prior to being re-positioned for alignment.
From my experiences the car is driven onto the equipment, accessories attached to wheels (mirrors) and alignment done from there. No lifting of the car.
I have seen where a car is sometimes lifted but then the car is lowered and moved prior to being re-positioned for alignment.
Some equipment must be compensated at each wheel, and the procedure is to raise each corner of the car and rotate each wheel to align the "head unit" (no jokes please) to the wheel. In this situation the tech must be sure the vehicle returns to proper ride height after the compensation is done. Since many alignment shops don't often work on Corvettes, this could be an issue. Thanks to the OP for pointing it out.
I believe more modern alignment equipment does not require this kind of compensation -- but I don't have access to this modern equipment. What we use in school requires compensation.
Pro
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 510
Likes: 5
From: Pipe Creek TX
I think whomever that technician is has to lay off the drugs. First of all, your car when being aligned, is technically "off the ground". But it is not suspended in mid air with the wheels dangling, is it?
You roll up onto two ramps and the wheels are positioned and then the mirrors/sensors are added. If these technicians mean, by physically taking the car in the air, while still on steel ramps something goes kaplooey, I don't know what to say.
Finally, a bad alignment, or an improper one, is just that, and no more. The car's suspension settings don't change simply by rolling onto the alignment tracks, to my knowledge. If it does, then every alignment and machine is in need of a new design.
if I am misunderstanding something, plz explain.
You roll up onto two ramps and the wheels are positioned and then the mirrors/sensors are added. If these technicians mean, by physically taking the car in the air, while still on steel ramps something goes kaplooey, I don't know what to say.
Finally, a bad alignment, or an improper one, is just that, and no more. The car's suspension settings don't change simply by rolling onto the alignment tracks, to my knowledge. If it does, then every alignment and machine is in need of a new design.
if I am misunderstanding something, plz explain.
This then makes sense to check ride height before checking the specs.
Clear?
