Need Advice on Possible Bad Vette Purchase
07-20-2011, 02:34 PM
#161
Melting Slicks
I would do a quick $29-$99 background search on this guy...
Most people do more research on a LCD TV than on an individual, when handing over $20K to stranger.
If its a mile long with judgements; forget the legal case route, as you may win..but be in a long line of others in front of you.
He took money off your table; hit him where he eats. If has a license, business, a state regulator oversees his business...thats the best route. People ignore the courts...but when food aint coming home they act.
Consumer protection laws have all been strengthened and a vigilant young regulator may want to nail this guy.
He basically made $15,000 net off of you....so his calculation is how many thousands can i keep as I fight this guy.
If you produce a laundry list of actions (not threats) you will take...he will enventually get the message that everyone from his employers, bank, vendors will learn about this.
Again every agency from FTC, FDIC, OCC, ICC, State DMV, State Insurance, Postal Inspector (if mail used) has a fraud reporting page and if you list these 15+ reports...he will start to quake in his boots.
I would put that local dealer on notice too that errant evaluations are not taken lightly by GM either.
Follow the money....anywhere where he took/made/transmitted money has iron clad laws and any shadyness is dealt with hard.
I assume you paid by bank wire, certified check, or equivalent; those places need to have a fraudulent transaction report made soon.
Your best case may be this car is unroadworthy and a sale must be rescincded purely on safety grounds.
Your first loss is your best loss; take it and move on.
Most people do more research on a LCD TV than on an individual, when handing over $20K to stranger.
If its a mile long with judgements; forget the legal case route, as you may win..but be in a long line of others in front of you.
He took money off your table; hit him where he eats. If has a license, business, a state regulator oversees his business...thats the best route. People ignore the courts...but when food aint coming home they act.
Consumer protection laws have all been strengthened and a vigilant young regulator may want to nail this guy.
He basically made $15,000 net off of you....so his calculation is how many thousands can i keep as I fight this guy.
If you produce a laundry list of actions (not threats) you will take...he will enventually get the message that everyone from his employers, bank, vendors will learn about this.
Again every agency from FTC, FDIC, OCC, ICC, State DMV, State Insurance, Postal Inspector (if mail used) has a fraud reporting page and if you list these 15+ reports...he will start to quake in his boots.
I would put that local dealer on notice too that errant evaluations are not taken lightly by GM either.
Follow the money....anywhere where he took/made/transmitted money has iron clad laws and any shadyness is dealt with hard.
I assume you paid by bank wire, certified check, or equivalent; those places need to have a fraudulent transaction report made soon.
Your best case may be this car is unroadworthy and a sale must be rescincded purely on safety grounds.
Your first loss is your best loss; take it and move on.
Last edited by Kevin_NYC; 07-20-2011 at 02:54 PM.
07-20-2011, 02:49 PM
#162
Race Director
To the preachers who arent Lawyers but slept at a Holiday Inn last night....
Give it a rest!
The dude rolled the dice, is straight up about the risk he took and wants some technical advice....
He may be $10,0000 ahead of all of us; lets get him back on the road and save the guilt trips for really bad decisions.
Give it a rest!
The dude rolled the dice, is straight up about the risk he took and wants some technical advice....
He may be $10,0000 ahead of all of us; lets get him back on the road and save the guilt trips for really bad decisions.
Why rub his nose in it?
07-20-2011, 02:53 PM
#163
Race Director
Have you tried contacting his shop foreman/manager or at least one of his employees who helped ship the car? Someone HAS to be able to get in contact with the seller or at least provide you with some input. Good luck man.
07-20-2011, 04:40 PM
#164
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Seller finally texted me. He's been playing phone tag with the dealership. Should be calling them now to get the skinny on the car.
Edit: Seller will speak with dealership tech tomorrow morning. Gaaa, this just seems to drag on forever.
Edit: Seller will speak with dealership tech tomorrow morning. Gaaa, this just seems to drag on forever.
Last edited by Force Fed Gorilla; 07-20-2011 at 05:01 PM.
07-20-2011, 05:09 PM
#165
Melting Slicks
Gorilla
It will be interesting to hear what they have to say after talking with him.
Have you had any conversations with the Dealer that did the original inspection before you bought it? Was it a Chevy dealer near him? My son is in the business and he said that the people that did the original inspection should be included in this mess because they screwed up.
It will be interesting to hear what they have to say after talking with him.
Have you had any conversations with the Dealer that did the original inspection before you bought it? Was it a Chevy dealer near him? My son is in the business and he said that the people that did the original inspection should be included in this mess because they screwed up.
07-20-2011, 05:15 PM
#166
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Gorilla
It will be interesting to hear what they have to say after talking with him.
Have you had any conversations with the Dealer that did the original inspection before you bought it? Was it a Chevy dealer near him? My son is in the business and he said that the people that did the original inspection should be included in this mess because they screwed up.
It will be interesting to hear what they have to say after talking with him.
Have you had any conversations with the Dealer that did the original inspection before you bought it? Was it a Chevy dealer near him? My son is in the business and he said that the people that did the original inspection should be included in this mess because they screwed up.
07-20-2011, 05:26 PM
#167
Melting Slicks
07-20-2011, 05:34 PM
#168
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Talked to the dealership tech from the seller's hometown. They couldn't give me a good reason why they missed some of the stuff they did. He did say they had to jump the car three times to get it in and out of the shop. I asked him why he didn't include that little fact on the inspection invoice they sent me and he said that he thought the seller was going to tell me. ???? What! The purpose of having a competent and trustworthy third party inspect the vehicle is so that I don't have to rely on the seller's word alone. The guy said there is nothing they can do about it.
07-20-2011, 05:40 PM
#169
Melting Slicks
Talked to the dealership tech from the seller's hometown. They couldn't give me a good reason why they missed some of the stuff they did. He did say they had to jump the car three times to get it in and out of the shop. I asked him why he didn't include that little fact on the inspection invoice they sent me and he said that he thought the seller was going to tell me. ???? What! The purpose of having a competent and trustworthy third party inspect the vehicle is so that I don't have to rely on the seller's word alone. The guy said there is nothing they can do about it.
You paid a GM dealer money for a service and are eligible to give feedback on that service.
I understand dealers get negged badly for bad customer service survey results. Make sure he understands you will be filling out that survey even if you have to have a blank one with his name filled out and sent in, with your invoice attached/scanned
Dealer will track down this seller and make sure he doesnt damage his reputation. Bad survey impact profitability, holdback, dealer cash, etc.
Regional GM Rep exists, and is there for service issues (which this is)
07-20-2011, 05:44 PM
#170
Melting Slicks
When you finally get some legal help make sure that he is aware of this dealer inspection that occurred before you bought it and there not completely disclosing what they did and the problems they had. They screwed up and just because they say there is nothing they can do doesn't mean nothing. You may want to escalate your displeasure with their service and what the other dealership found to the service manager or general manager. Also let them know you are going to be contacting someone higher up the chain with GM if you do not get an adequate response to your questions.
07-20-2011, 05:48 PM
#171
Race Director
Kevin_NYC has offered some sound advice as to if needing to "pull out the stops".
Time is becoming of the essence, dont let this drag, let the seller know you want resolution and you want it now even if its some sort of cash settlement.
Negotiate with him to come up with something that works and give a deadline and let him know you will do everything possible to recover money from a misrepresented deal.
Good luck!
Time is becoming of the essence, dont let this drag, let the seller know you want resolution and you want it now even if its some sort of cash settlement.
Negotiate with him to come up with something that works and give a deadline and let him know you will do everything possible to recover money from a misrepresented deal.
Good luck!
07-20-2011, 05:59 PM
#172
Burning Brakes
On either dealership, whichever you are referencing to. If local, get the names he spoke to or left message. You need to verify if any effort was actualy accomplished to this end. It looks like he is pulling your chain to buy time.
07-20-2011, 06:23 PM
#173
Right about now a brand new Honda Civic SI with full warranty suddenly makes a lot more sense, right? Sorry to hear you learned your lesson the hard way. We all make mistakes, but man, this one falls in the category of 'What the hell were you thinking?'.
Anyway, you should know by now you can't rely on that car, and that nobody will touch it without signing a waiver, meaning you could pay thousands of dollars of troubleshooting for nothing. The smart thing to do IMO would be to get rid of the car with the least amount of losses now. I don't even think you'd have a legal case against the seller without a written guarantee, or something pretty incriminating, especially across state lines, so make sure you wouldn't be adding to your losses in the form of lawyer's fees. I'd try to cut a deal with the seller, and move on with your life. Good luck man, and sorry for being hard on you, but as long as you don't ever do it again, that's what's called 'experience'
.
Anyway, you should know by now you can't rely on that car, and that nobody will touch it without signing a waiver, meaning you could pay thousands of dollars of troubleshooting for nothing. The smart thing to do IMO would be to get rid of the car with the least amount of losses now. I don't even think you'd have a legal case against the seller without a written guarantee, or something pretty incriminating, especially across state lines, so make sure you wouldn't be adding to your losses in the form of lawyer's fees. I'd try to cut a deal with the seller, and move on with your life. Good luck man, and sorry for being hard on you, but as long as you don't ever do it again, that's what's called 'experience'
.From what I've read I'm really wondering what the circumstances were around the "flooded" salvage. I hate to say it, but the seller sounds full of crap about it running fine, then you get it and it's completely dead. I wonder if any water got sucked up into the engine?
From what I can tell, with the "water salvage" being a KNOWN issue, it's about a $12,000 car, really. Don't waste much on a lawyer, the salvaged title is the death toll for most cars with that designation and I don't think a lawyer will be able to do much beacuse of that. If this was going to be a track only car, that you intended of tearing down for the most part, well maybe then, but ouch on the price and g/l with getting insurance coverage.
This wasn't meant to bum you out, but like the other guy said, there were a lot of mis-steps with this purchase and I truly hope you get it worked out.
07-20-2011, 08:18 PM
#175
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Contact the GM Rep here.
You paid a GM dealer money for a service and are eligible to give feedback on that service.
I understand dealers get negged badly for bad customer service survey results. Make sure he understands you will be filling out that survey even if you have to have a blank one with his name filled out and sent in, with your invoice attached/scanned
Dealer will track down this seller and make sure he doesnt damage his reputation. Bad survey impact profitability, holdback, dealer cash, etc.
Regional GM Rep exists, and is there for service issues (which this is)
You paid a GM dealer money for a service and are eligible to give feedback on that service.
I understand dealers get negged badly for bad customer service survey results. Make sure he understands you will be filling out that survey even if you have to have a blank one with his name filled out and sent in, with your invoice attached/scanned
Dealer will track down this seller and make sure he doesnt damage his reputation. Bad survey impact profitability, holdback, dealer cash, etc.
Regional GM Rep exists, and is there for service issues (which this is)
07-20-2011, 08:27 PM
#176
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Lots of legal experts around here. Unless you've played in this fine country's legal system, you have no idea how expensive it is "to go after someone." That money will be better spent fixing the car.
07-20-2011, 08:42 PM
#177
Race Director
I would discuss it with a lawyer before you waste any more money. Legal processes are usually slow and expensive. Your car could be impounded as evidence while you still make the payments. The seller is pulling your chain and he'll put you off as long as you let him. A quick check of his state's DMV would tell you if the car was ever operational. I wouldn't be surprised if it was every registered when means it cannot run "awesome" since VA taxes the crap out of their residents' cars.
Unfortunately you may be paying for this in the end. Best option might be to sell the parts for whatever you can. Although I think I read you took a loan out to pay for it so I think the bank will want all of their money back. Quite shocking if they did loan money for a salvaged car.
You may be able to go after the dealer in his local area though (probably is friends with the seller) as they misrepresented the vehicle. It is obvious that the car was not running "awesome" if they had to jump start it 3 times. But the seller could probably also say his definition of awesome was the shear power of the vehicle when it was operating. I don't believe the story about his wife and the basement for a minute. He probably towed the car home, took the pics in the driveway then towed it back to one of the 3 shops he owns.
Unfortunately you may be paying for this in the end. Best option might be to sell the parts for whatever you can. Although I think I read you took a loan out to pay for it so I think the bank will want all of their money back. Quite shocking if they did loan money for a salvaged car.
You may be able to go after the dealer in his local area though (probably is friends with the seller) as they misrepresented the vehicle. It is obvious that the car was not running "awesome" if they had to jump start it 3 times. But the seller could probably also say his definition of awesome was the shear power of the vehicle when it was operating. I don't believe the story about his wife and the basement for a minute. He probably towed the car home, took the pics in the driveway then towed it back to one of the 3 shops he owns.
07-20-2011, 08:59 PM
#178
Melting Slicks
Personally at this point, I would cut my losses, and start gathering parts. I would talk to a vette dismantler, and try to get an intact wiring harness.....the whole thing, and all modules involved. You are going to have to tear this thing apart and basically rebuild it. You would be in the same situtation as the seller if you were to try and pass this off on someone else. You are now into this for the long haul, you may as well get to know this car from the inside out. There is nothing there that can't be fixed. But the economics of it are, you will be doin' the fixin'.
You are upside down on this car, you will always be that way. Even totally rebuilt with reciepts, will never negate the fact that it is a branded car. Too bad you are not closer, I would help you. Strip it down, learn how it goes together, and build your car, your way.
Better than paying lawyers!
Good luck, keep us posted!
You are upside down on this car, you will always be that way. Even totally rebuilt with reciepts, will never negate the fact that it is a branded car. Too bad you are not closer, I would help you. Strip it down, learn how it goes together, and build your car, your way.
Better than paying lawyers!
Good luck, keep us posted!
07-20-2011, 09:21 PM
#179
Race Director
If you decide to keep the car then Corvette Recycling should be one of your best friends in a couple months. I've been to their shop and it is a Vette re builder's dream come true.
07-20-2011, 09:33 PM
#180
Le Mans Master
Wow guys. Really feeling the love. I think I realized I made a mistake the first 30 times it was posted.
I'm in my early 30's. Yes, someone who is considered an adult can in fact make a poor decision.
Regarding why I paid what I did, what I'm really looking for in a C6 is something with performance mods. I wasn't looking for a stocker. The mods the seller listed in his sales ad would easily be $12-15k to replicate. So for the mods I wanted (which the car fit almost to a T) it seemed like a great deal. I still think it would be a good deal if the owner really had put as much work into it as he implied in the sales ad and our conversations. I've been watching the For Sale section for a long time and I know clean 2005's go for pretty cheap. Had I wanted a stock '05 there is no way I would have shelled out $23k for a flood car.
Still waiting to hear back from the seller. I told him I'd be seeking legal counsel if he didn't want to return my phone calls or texts.
AirbusPilot - I'll check the block and make sure it is what it's supposed to be. I thought I saw on ERL's website that they have a dry-sleeve option which I assume would be an aluminum block. I'm pretty sure that's what the seller said it was but I'll still check it out. It does have a pretty healthy cam according to the dealer.
I'm in my early 30's. Yes, someone who is considered an adult can in fact make a poor decision.
Regarding why I paid what I did, what I'm really looking for in a C6 is something with performance mods. I wasn't looking for a stocker. The mods the seller listed in his sales ad would easily be $12-15k to replicate. So for the mods I wanted (which the car fit almost to a T) it seemed like a great deal. I still think it would be a good deal if the owner really had put as much work into it as he implied in the sales ad and our conversations. I've been watching the For Sale section for a long time and I know clean 2005's go for pretty cheap. Had I wanted a stock '05 there is no way I would have shelled out $23k for a flood car.
Still waiting to hear back from the seller. I told him I'd be seeking legal counsel if he didn't want to return my phone calls or texts.
AirbusPilot - I'll check the block and make sure it is what it's supposed to be. I thought I saw on ERL's website that they have a dry-sleeve option which I assume would be an aluminum block. I'm pretty sure that's what the seller said it was but I'll still check it out. It does have a pretty healthy cam according to the dealer.
I can understand the temptation to get a twin turbo vette for $23k. It's a shame this had to happen.
I dunno, maybe once the dust settles you can methodically remove the entire dash and start replacing all the wiring and computers. Someone mentioned vette recyclers, you can get anything you need there. If you get all the engine and starter wiring replaced, you might be good to go.