Competitive Driving Mode.
08-28-2011, 02:57 PM
#21
Team Owner
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St. Jude Donor '13
with goatts!!For driving on the street there's absolutely no reason to turn off TC or AH.
There are many very experienced track hounds here on the forum that will tell you that you can drive the car very hard on a road course track with everything on, and if you're smooth the AH will rarely intervene.
My fellow Ranger Ranger is very experienced on the drag strip, and he recommends to just turn off TC for the drag strip. Leave AH full on - if your tail end gets out of whack your run essentially over and you need all the help you can get to keep the car out of the other lane or the wall.
I run Comp mode on road courses at track day events, but I never turn anything off for street driving. On the track you've got corner workers who will throw a debris-on-track flag if somebody drops oil, coolant, car parts, or if there's gravel from somebody's off track excursion. On the street you never know what kind of crap you might run into and even though I've got a lot of track experience driving the car near the limits, I'm glad to accept help from the AH if I need it when I'm driving on the streets and highways.
So.....I say leave the AH on for street driving.
If you're driving such that you're activating AH on the street, then you're a hazard to other vehicles near you. The only reason to turn off the AH is to intentionally drift the car, and if you're doing that on the street then you're a menace to other traffic. That's why I go to track events - so I can drive the car hard and experience its performance limits in a place where it safe to do that.
Bob
I had to do a quick launch from a stop, to avoid an out-of-control car heading my way; TC still allowed me to put down some rubber getting out of there.
For every guy who gets handicapped by the electronics in an emergency or normal driving, there's probably a dozen who get saved by them.
08-28-2011, 03:01 PM
#22
Drifting
Thread Starter
I have no need to shut off the AH, I would hope it would do its job and save my *** if needed. I can tell you from EXPERIENCE that I have had TC kick in at a most inopportune time whereas I could have better controlled the situation by backing off the throttle quickly and feathered back into it to gain traction. No need for BS or shovels.
Last edited by 360Rocket; 08-28-2011 at 03:04 PM.
08-28-2011, 03:04 PM
#23
Race Director
with goatts!!For driving on the street there's absolutely no reason to turn off TC or AH.
There are many very experienced track hounds here on the forum that will tell you that you can drive the car very hard on a road course track with everything on, and if you're smooth the AH will rarely intervene.
My fellow Ranger Ranger is very experienced on the drag strip, and he recommends to just turn off TC for the drag strip. Leave AH full on - if your tail end gets out of whack your run essentially over and you need all the help you can get to keep the car out of the other lane or the wall.
I run Comp mode on road courses at track day events, but I never turn anything off for street driving. On the track you've got corner workers who will throw a debris-on-track flag if somebody drops oil, coolant, car parts, or if there's gravel from somebody's off track excursion. On the street you never know what kind of crap you might run into and even though I've got a lot of track experience driving the car near the limits, I'm glad to accept help from the AH if I need it when I'm driving on the streets and highways.
So.....I say leave the AH on for street driving.
If you're driving such that you're activating AH on the street, then you're a hazard to other vehicles near you. The only reason to turn off the AH is to intentionally drift the car, and if you're doing that on the street then you're a menace to other traffic. That's why I go to track events - so I can drive the car hard and experience its performance limits in a place where it safe to do that.
Bob
08-28-2011, 03:21 PM
#24
Race Director
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St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17
I like the feel of the car with traction control turned off. I pushed the button to see how it would handle with traction control off, but I realized I always had it off. I don't use it with my Z51, but if I ever get stuck in the rain I may hit the button. I drove a '70 Challenger with posi for years so I guess I'm just use to a car without it.
08-28-2011, 03:53 PM
#25
Drifting
We are somewhat in agreement. I did say that I don't push the limits, especially on the street. And yes , If I did I would likely loose it . I guess the point in contention is : When driving at the "limits", the nannies should be on, agreed. Street driving should never be near the "limits" , so technically you won't get into the nanny zone. Also , in the appropriate environment, it is very easy to overwhelm the nannies. It.s all relative. Having tracked cars with bias ply tires, live rear axles, non power drum brakes, and manual steering, I am a reluctant convert. I am not trying to convert you, or anyone else, but these new cars are so mechanically superior to the old stuff, It's hard to accept we need nannies too. Whatever your preferred setting, drive safely, enjoy your car, peace.
08-28-2011, 04:21 PM
#26
Safety Car
08-28-2011, 04:25 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
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TC off or comp mode also greatly reduce throttle resolution. Lehman terms-dead feeling pedal til about 60%throttle. Gonna go see Chuck when he comes to Texas. I have his tune and it is so much better than the tune on my old Mustang GT but now that there is a way to reduce that funky dead pedal feeling, I gotta go see him again.
08-28-2011, 04:28 PM
#28
Drifting
Thread Starter
Love the pic of the car in your avatar.
08-28-2011, 04:35 PM
#29
Traction Control System (TCS):
This limits rear wheel spin by reducing engine power and applying the rear brakes when wheelspin is detected.
Active Handling (AH):
Helps maintain directional control by selectively applying any one of the 4 brakes when a skid is detected.
________________________________________ _____________
There are 4 separate modes:
1. Traction Control - On Active Handling - On (Engages when the car is started)
This is the default mode.
This is recommended for normal driving.
2. Traction Control - Off Active Handling - On (Engage with 1 push of the button)
Turning off TCS allows the rear wheels to spin, but alows the Active Handling to fully assist in skid contol.
This is recommended for drag racing.
3. Traction Control - Off Active Handling - Reduced (Engage with 2 pushes of the button)
This is the Competitive Driving Mode which allows the rear wheels to spin, while reducing some of the input that Active Handling has to assist in skid control.
This is recommended for road racing.
4. Traction Control - Off Active Handling - Off (Engage by holding button for 5 sec.)
This may be used when the driver does not want any on-board sensor input that may effect power reduction or brake application. No rear wheel spin or vehicle skid corrections are automatically applied.
Note: The Anti-Lock Braking System (ABS) is always on and is unaffected by the various Traction Control or Active Handling selections that may be made above.
.
This limits rear wheel spin by reducing engine power and applying the rear brakes when wheelspin is detected.
Active Handling (AH):
Helps maintain directional control by selectively applying any one of the 4 brakes when a skid is detected.
________________________________________ _____________
There are 4 separate modes:
1. Traction Control - On Active Handling - On (Engages when the car is started)
This is the default mode.
This is recommended for normal driving.
2. Traction Control - Off Active Handling - On (Engage with 1 push of the button)
Turning off TCS allows the rear wheels to spin, but alows the Active Handling to fully assist in skid contol.
This is recommended for drag racing.
3. Traction Control - Off Active Handling - Reduced (Engage with 2 pushes of the button)
This is the Competitive Driving Mode which allows the rear wheels to spin, while reducing some of the input that Active Handling has to assist in skid control.
This is recommended for road racing.
4. Traction Control - Off Active Handling - Off (Engage by holding button for 5 sec.)
This may be used when the driver does not want any on-board sensor input that may effect power reduction or brake application. No rear wheel spin or vehicle skid corrections are automatically applied.
Note: The Anti-Lock Braking System (ABS) is always on and is unaffected by the various Traction Control or Active Handling selections that may be made above.
.
08-28-2011, 04:36 PM
#30
TC off or comp mode also greatly reduce throttle resolution. Lehman terms-dead feeling pedal til about 60%throttle. Gonna go see Chuck when he comes to Texas. I have his tune and it is so much better than the tune on my old Mustang GT but now that there is a way to reduce that funky dead pedal feeling, I gotta go see him again.
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Chuck CoW (04-05-2016)
08-28-2011, 04:43 PM
#31
Drifting
Thread Starter
Now do ANY of these settings have anything to do with changing torque management? transmission shift points or control?
Last edited by 360Rocket; 08-28-2011 at 04:46 PM.
08-28-2011, 05:16 PM
#32
I totally agree! I had heard of some "secret setting" but didnt know it existed or how to access it. I dont think its a funtion I would use, but cool to know that its there.
Now do ANY of these settings have anything to do with changing torque management? transmission shift points or control?
Now do ANY of these settings have anything to do with changing torque management? transmission shift points or control?
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Chuck CoW (04-05-2016)
08-28-2011, 05:37 PM
#33
Race Director
I'm an oooold man and grew up driving cars with no technology. I've still got the car I bought when I graduated from college in 1970 - an Olds 442 with Muncie 4-speed. I've also got a '69 Porsche 911S that I've had for 37 years, and an '82 BMW 633 Csi that I've had since the mid 80's. Not too much technology going on in those cars, and I've driven them hard over the years.
However, I embrace the technology out there that can help us drive our incredibly powerful C6's more safely.
Just to throw some other info out here, let me toss in some info about PTM on the ZR1. I have a 2009 ZR1, so it doesn't have PTM, but in 2010 it came out on the ZR1, and sometime later on the Z06 Z07 with F55 (I don't know whether it was available in 2011, but I know it's in the 2012 order guide for the Z06).
Here's some info from intro of the 2010 ZR1 at the NCM bash - and take a close look at the very last paragraph where it says the system has shown to be able to improve the times of pro-level drivers...:
The PTM allows you to hammer the acelerator pedal to the floor when coming out of a turn, and it will manage the power application to insure that you don't overdrive your contact patch.
I believe that several of the very experienced track drivers that track their ZR1's use PTM mode #3 when running HPDE's.
I know if I had it on my ZR1 that I'd be using it on the track!! However, I only track my '06 Z06, so I run in Comp on the track and have to use my right foot to modulate power to maintain the contact patch within its capabilities to retain traction.
Below is a video explaining PTM.
Bob
However, I embrace the technology out there that can help us drive our incredibly powerful C6's more safely.
Just to throw some other info out here, let me toss in some info about PTM on the ZR1. I have a 2009 ZR1, so it doesn't have PTM, but in 2010 it came out on the ZR1, and sometime later on the Z06 Z07 with F55 (I don't know whether it was available in 2011, but I know it's in the 2012 order guide for the Z06).
Here's some info from intro of the 2010 ZR1 at the NCM bash - and take a close look at the very last paragraph where it says the system has shown to be able to improve the times of pro-level drivers...:
Here are the five settings as outlined in the GM Engineering Seminar at the National Corvette Museum’s C5/C6 Bash:
PTM Mode #1 – Wet
This is the mode intended for use during damp or wet track conditions by drivers of all skill levels.
Engine torque is management based on the given track conditions.
Active Handling is enabled.
PTM Mode #2 – Dry
This is the mode intended for use on dry track conditions by less experienced drivers or those learning a new track.
Engine torque is slightly managed based on the given track conditions.
Active Handling is enabled.
PTM Mode #3 – Sport
This is the mode intended for use on dry track conditions by drivers who are familiar with the track they are driving. This mode requires more driver skill than PTM Mode #2.
More engine torque is available than in Mode #2.
Active Handling is enabled.
PTM Mode #4 – Sport
This is the mode intended for use on dry track conditions by drivers who are familiar with the track they are driving. This mode requires more driver skill than PTM Mode #3.
The same level of engine torque is available as in Mode #3.
Active Handling is disabled.
PTM Mode #5 – Race
This is the mode intended for use on dry track conditions by experienced drivers who are familiar with the track they are driving. This mode will require more driver skill than all the other modes.
Available engine torque is maximized for cornering speed.
Active Handling is disabled.
Tadge says the system has shown to be able to improve the times of pro-level drivers and so for skilled-level drivers, the PTM system “turns him into a hero”.
PTM Mode #1 – Wet
This is the mode intended for use during damp or wet track conditions by drivers of all skill levels.
Engine torque is management based on the given track conditions.
Active Handling is enabled.
PTM Mode #2 – Dry
This is the mode intended for use on dry track conditions by less experienced drivers or those learning a new track.
Engine torque is slightly managed based on the given track conditions.
Active Handling is enabled.
PTM Mode #3 – Sport
This is the mode intended for use on dry track conditions by drivers who are familiar with the track they are driving. This mode requires more driver skill than PTM Mode #2.
More engine torque is available than in Mode #2.
Active Handling is enabled.
PTM Mode #4 – Sport
This is the mode intended for use on dry track conditions by drivers who are familiar with the track they are driving. This mode requires more driver skill than PTM Mode #3.
The same level of engine torque is available as in Mode #3.
Active Handling is disabled.
PTM Mode #5 – Race
This is the mode intended for use on dry track conditions by experienced drivers who are familiar with the track they are driving. This mode will require more driver skill than all the other modes.
Available engine torque is maximized for cornering speed.
Active Handling is disabled.
Tadge says the system has shown to be able to improve the times of pro-level drivers and so for skilled-level drivers, the PTM system “turns him into a hero”.
I believe that several of the very experienced track drivers that track their ZR1's use PTM mode #3 when running HPDE's.
I know if I had it on my ZR1 that I'd be using it on the track!! However, I only track my '06 Z06, so I run in Comp on the track and have to use my right foot to modulate power to maintain the contact patch within its capabilities to retain traction.
Below is a video explaining PTM.
Bob
Last edited by BEZ06; 08-28-2011 at 07:42 PM.
04-05-2016, 02:57 PM
#34
Instructor
My uncle wrecked his z06 back in the days, street racing in competition mode and he said somethings about loosing control of the car/ brakes didn't work, and slid it straight into a lake, not a scratch but flooded above the window. Thankfully neither the passenger/driver were ok
04-05-2016, 03:07 PM
#35
Drifting
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Originally Posted by Wayne O
Essentially comp mode shuts off traction control and gives you a reduced level of active handling. In comp mode you have somewhat more leeway to 'slide' the car....like you'd want on a road course.
04-05-2016, 03:15 PM
#36
Drifting
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Originally Posted by BEZ06
with goatts!!For driving on the street there's absolutely no reason to turn off TC or AH.
There are many very experienced track hounds here on the forum that will tell you that you can drive the car very hard on a road course track with everything on, and if you're smooth the AH will rarely intervene.
My fellow Ranger Ranger is very experienced on the drag strip, and he recommends to just turn off TC for the drag strip. Leave AH full on - if your tail end gets out of whack your run essentially over and you need all the help you can get to keep the car out of the other lane or the wall.
I run Comp mode on road courses at track day events, but I never turn anything off for street driving. On the track you've got corner workers who will throw a debris-on-track flag if somebody drops oil, coolant, car parts, or if there's gravel from somebody's off track excursion. On the street you never know what kind of crap you might run into and even though I've got a lot of track experience driving the car near the limits, I'm glad to accept help from the AH if I need it when I'm driving on the streets and highways.
So.....I say leave the AH on for street driving.
If you're driving such that you're activating AH on the street, then you're a hazard to other vehicles near you. The only reason to turn off the AH is to intentionally drift the car, and if you're doing that on the street then you're a menace to other traffic. That's why I go to track events - so I can drive the car hard and experience its performance limits in a place where it safe to do that.
Bob
Totally true. If you are getting those you are either driving the car 10/10 ths or being ham fisted with it. I doubt it is the first one. Being smooth is the answer to go fast. At 8/10 ths i get none of the nannies ever interfere, unless i do something stupid, also known to do that on an occasion. I am glad that they are there so my cherished toy does not end up in the weeds or get thrashed.
04-05-2016, 05:22 PM
#37
I have. I was curious as to how well the traction control worked. And boy does it work. You could feel the tires right at the limits of adhesion, with my foot to the floor in a down pour.
Leave the nannies on! Absolutely no reason to take them off. They've saved my *** so many times.
04-05-2016, 11:39 PM
#38
Former Vendor
Member Since: Nov 2005
Location: Ossining New York
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
The TC ON/OFF changes....
The TC ON/OFF changes the behavior of the Active Handling and Traction control..... Nannies we call them....
One thing GM never (mustah forgot to include
) never mentioned in the manual that when you select Traction control OFF,
COMP, or EVERYTHING OFF the throttle response is sharply reduced.
Check some of my ads for the comparative throttle graphs.
SO, when you push the TC button to enter what you think is a "more aggressive mode"... HA HA.... It's actually LESS RESPONSIVE.
CoW BOOSTER! is a mod I make to the throttle control part of the ecm that tuning software does not let you access.
After I make this mod, I can make the throttle soo responsive it'll snap you neck...
Actually, I send it out what I call "Quite Sporty" and I can make it actually anything you want from LAZY to INSANE.
Given that GM elected to make the throttle behave differently for Traction ON and The other 3 modes.....
The opened the door for me to offer 2 different CoW BOOSTER! Modes that are activated when the TC button is pressed.
The 2005 C6 actually has 3 different modes you can select with the throttle button.
I prefer to make all 3 the same, but you want something different, you can always ask for it.
Either way, Rather than wait for me to come to Texas or anywhere else for that matter.... Just send me the pcm and I
and add it for you very easily...
914-332-0049
CoW BOOSTER! has been around for about 5 years without ever a single failure or problem.
Can't say that about the crap that comes from China!
Chuck CoW
One thing GM never (mustah forgot to include
) never mentioned in the manual that when you select Traction control OFF,COMP, or EVERYTHING OFF the throttle response is sharply reduced.
Check some of my ads for the comparative throttle graphs.
SO, when you push the TC button to enter what you think is a "more aggressive mode"... HA HA.... It's actually LESS RESPONSIVE.
CoW BOOSTER! is a mod I make to the throttle control part of the ecm that tuning software does not let you access.
After I make this mod, I can make the throttle soo responsive it'll snap you neck...
Actually, I send it out what I call "Quite Sporty" and I can make it actually anything you want from LAZY to INSANE.
Given that GM elected to make the throttle behave differently for Traction ON and The other 3 modes.....
The opened the door for me to offer 2 different CoW BOOSTER! Modes that are activated when the TC button is pressed.
The 2005 C6 actually has 3 different modes you can select with the throttle button.
I prefer to make all 3 the same, but you want something different, you can always ask for it.
Either way, Rather than wait for me to come to Texas or anywhere else for that matter.... Just send me the pcm and I
and add it for you very easily...
914-332-0049
CoW BOOSTER! has been around for about 5 years without ever a single failure or problem.
Can't say that about the crap that comes from China!
Chuck CoW
04-06-2016, 09:30 AM
#40
Safety Car
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Location: Pearland / Houston Tx
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I have. I was curious as to how well the traction control worked. And boy does it work. You could feel the tires right at the limits of adhesion, with my foot to the floor in a down pour.
Leave the nannies on! Absolutely no reason to take them off. They've saved my *** so many times.
Leave the nannies on! Absolutely no reason to take them off. They've saved my *** so many times.
Last edited by C6ToGo; 04-06-2016 at 09:31 AM.