Heel/Toe
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 249
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From: Alabama
Heel/Toe
Always been able to heel/toe downshift with other cars. The vet is new to me, and I'm starting to study on this topic. The peddles have a different setup than I have experienced previously. The gas peddle seems to be deep in the well, and maybe further away from break? Please describe your H/T technique.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,633
Likes: 2
From: Evans Colorado
This is going to be different for everybody and even within the same person depending on what shoes you're wearing.
I have a fairly narrow foot, so I can't simply place it in between the pedals. What I find myself doing is using my big toe on the break and angling my heel towards the accelerator to give the throttle a blip.
With the factory tune, the throttle response is a bit lazy, so you've got to push a bit harder on the accelerator than you may at first think.
You're just going to have to experiment for yourself.
I have a fairly narrow foot, so I can't simply place it in between the pedals. What I find myself doing is using my big toe on the break and angling my heel towards the accelerator to give the throttle a blip.
With the factory tune, the throttle response is a bit lazy, so you've got to push a bit harder on the accelerator than you may at first think.
You're just going to have to experiment for yourself.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,191
Likes: 43
From: Scottsdale Az
I can toe/heel the vette in flip-flops. I reversed it because that's how I apply the brakes and blip the throttle. I use my toes/ball of my foot on the brakes and reach over with my heel & other side of my foot to blip the throttle.
Practice in a straight line first, then hit the corners.
The worst car I've done is a '04 GTO. The pedals are miles apart compared to the C6.
Practice in a straight line first, then hit the corners.
The worst car I've done is a '04 GTO. The pedals are miles apart compared to the C6.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 265
Likes: 5
If you don't mind a C5Z owner posting... I replaced the stock pedal with one that is a bit larger and sits a bit higher. This made all the difference for me. As for technique: while on the brake, I usually roll my foot outward/rightward, essentially splitting the ball of my foot onto both pedals.
I find that turning my heel outward works only with more knee room under the steering wheel than I currently have. My next mod is a new steering wheel, partially because of this.
I find that turning my heel outward works only with more knee room under the steering wheel than I currently have. My next mod is a new steering wheel, partially because of this.
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,888
Likes: 4,342
From: Lakewood Ranch, FL
I roll my foot. It is hard to get my heel around because of my hip injury. Having an Elite Engineering accelerator pedal with the extension helps a lot. Practice helps too. One does a lot of that at Spring Mountain.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 249
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From: Alabama
keep the descriptions coming. They are helpful.
Racer
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 440
Likes: 6
From: Hillsboro Oregon
I roll my foot also. Ball of my right foot on the brake while I roll the right side of the same foot to blip throttle. Economy of motion. You don't have to get all twisted up trying to use your heel.
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Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 249
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From: Alabama
I took the old girl out this afternoon to try out some HT, and ended up burnishing the breaks. Ended up trying some different approaches and rolling tended to give me results. I need a bunch of practice and it all happens really fast. If you hesitate any you have slowed down too much. News flash...These cars stop!
I took the ceramic breaks to smoking fade and a little beyond. Never got the immediate reaction at top of peddle that was described. I let the breaks cool down slow. Hope I got burnishing right. Some white at break pad/disk contact. I was surprised how quickly the breaks faded and how dramatically.
I took the ceramic breaks to smoking fade and a little beyond. Never got the immediate reaction at top of peddle that was described. I let the breaks cool down slow. Hope I got burnishing right. Some white at break pad/disk contact. I was surprised how quickly the breaks faded and how dramatically.
CF Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 23,313
Likes: 25
From: Tucson Arizona
You're not alone.....I track my car and for me the pedal geometry makes it near impossible for me to dig my heel down deep enough. I put the ball of my right foot on the brake and roll my foot over onto the gas pedal. I'd probably benefit from a wider gas pedal but I make it work.
I know a guy who modded....shimmed his pedal to make it easier to heel/toe (crappy pictures below).
I know a guy who modded....shimmed his pedal to make it easier to heel/toe (crappy pictures below).
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,037
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From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Plus you get better control of the pedals because it is easier to control your toes than your heel. Moving the heel requires moving the lower leg. On my C4, C5s, and C6 the brake pedal would drop to the level of the gas pedal on the first stroke and I found it easy to roll my foot sideways to blip the throttle. Where it gets hard is if you have pad taper that slowly results in longer and longer brake pedal travel you hit the the throttle as your foot pushes the brake pedal below the gas pedal on initial application. Then I use my left foot to pump the brake pedal a couple of strokes before I get to the braking zone. That gets the pedal high enough so my right foot won't hit the gas pedal on the first stroke.Bill
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,229
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From: Mt. Sinai NY
Always been able to heel/toe downshift with other cars. The vet is new to me, and I'm starting to study on this topic. The peddles have a different setup than I have experienced previously. The gas peddle seems to be deep in the well, and maybe further away from break? Please describe your H/T technique.
Clif
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
From: Alabama
So your saying you use the arch of your right foot to contact the break pedal?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
From: Alabama
You're not alone.....I track my car and for me the pedal geometry makes it near impossible for me to dig my heel down deep enough. I put the ball of my right foot on the brake and roll my foot over onto the gas pedal. I'd probably benefit from a wider gas pedal but I make it work.
I know a guy who modded....shimmed his pedal to make it easier to heel/toe (crappy pictures below).
I know a guy who modded....shimmed his pedal to make it easier to heel/toe (crappy pictures below).
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,365
Likes: 3
From: Huntsville AL
The traditional approach is to get a good brake pedal under the ball of your foot, then move your right knee laterally toward your left knee, which will allow you to rotate the heel of your right foot counterclockwise slightly, and then use your heel to blip the throttle. Many cars' throttle pedals do not allow for this, though. On my C4, the bottom of the pedal is like 8 inches off the floor, so there is no pedal where your heel would go, unless you can manage to turn your foot almost completely horizontal (extreme pigeon toe). The alternative is to get a good pedal under the left side of the ball of your foot, then, while keeping pressure on the brake, roll your foot outward so that the outside edge contacts the throttle pedal. This may or may not work depending on the width of your shoe and the pedal spacing.
The important point to all of that is every person's foot is different, and pedal spacing and position in cars is different, so what works for one person in one car may not work for someone else. Thankfully, it's relatively easy to modify your pedals to get something that will work for you.
The important point to all of that is every person's foot is different, and pedal spacing and position in cars is different, so what works for one person in one car may not work for someone else. Thankfully, it's relatively easy to modify your pedals to get something that will work for you.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 265
Likes: 5
I've learned your shoe is a significant factor, too. Some shoes lend themselves to heel-toe, while others make it more difficult. Shoe width and soul structure both affect how a shoe promotes or interferes with heel-toe.
Tactile feedback is also affected by your shoe choice, and such feedback is arguably more important when you must discern differing pressures on two pedals simultaneously. However, if you're just blipping the throttle for a rev-matching downshift, tactile feedback is less important than if you're actively modulating both brake and throttle concurrently around a turn.
Tactile feedback is also affected by your shoe choice, and such feedback is arguably more important when you must discern differing pressures on two pedals simultaneously. However, if you're just blipping the throttle for a rev-matching downshift, tactile feedback is less important than if you're actively modulating both brake and throttle concurrently around a turn.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 265
Likes: 5
The traditional approach is to get a good brake pedal under the ball of your foot, then move your right knee laterally toward your left knee, which will allow you to rotate the heel of your right foot counterclockwise slightly, and then use your heel to blip the throttle.
This is where knee room under the steering wheel becomes important (and limited for those of us with long legs).
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,694
Likes: 106
I changed the pedals on the new GS to facilitate 'heel and toe' (pic below), but the gas pedal is simply too deep, which is aggravated with the lazy throttle response, needing an almost WOT quick blip to bring rpm where they need to be. I can't do it. Maybe with full braking force (like on a track, but I don't track my car), where the brake pedal dives deeper, but I simply don't have enough ankle flexibility to make it happen on this car. And yes, adjustable throttle mapping would help. So I just do normal rev-match downshifts.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,365
Likes: 3
From: Huntsville AL
You could add a spacer to the gas pedal to bring it closer to the same plane the brake pedal is in when you are braking. Heel/toe is harder to do on the street when you aren't doing threshold braking all the time because the gas pedal is often lower than the brake pedal. When you are on the track, however, the brake pedal will be much further down because you are going to be braking much harder.