View Poll Results: Engineering/Design Defect vs User Error
Engineering/Design Defect
5
4.17%
User Error
115
95.83%
Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll
Engineering/Design defect vs User error???
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 539
Likes: 20
From: Southeast Connecticut
St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16
Engineering/Design defect vs User error???
There seems to be quite a range of opinions as to how the man and his dog died in his car and how it could have been prevented. Some say it is an engineering/design issue and others say it is the fault of the driver. I thought it would be interesting to start a poll to see where we stand. I'll start with my vote as an engineering/design defect. What say you?
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,079
Likes: 1,563
I don't think it's an engineering defect as much as I think they could have made the handles more visible and attention getting so everyone would notice them before they ever need them. As they are now in mine they're black, next to black trim and black carpet, but.....just how foolproof can everything be designed?
Last edited by R&L's C6; Jun 18, 2015 at 03:58 PM.
Advanced
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 94
Likes: 7
From: Germantown Maryland
I believe the engineering error should be the dealerships fault.... When I picked up my corvette no one sat me down and showed me how stuff worked. I had to express an interest and join a forum to see where stuff was.
I think it should be a requirement for all dealerships to have a 5 minute sit down on the locations of all emergency exits airbags ect.... Just like on an airplane...
Was the battery dead? Why didn't the man hit the horn? Why didn't he use his cell phone to express that he was in distress? Why doesn't he have a tool in his car for breaking his window in the event of a water emergency or a "I need to get the hell out of here emergency?"
I think it should be a requirement for all dealerships to have a 5 minute sit down on the locations of all emergency exits airbags ect.... Just like on an airplane...
Was the battery dead? Why didn't the man hit the horn? Why didn't he use his cell phone to express that he was in distress? Why doesn't he have a tool in his car for breaking his window in the event of a water emergency or a "I need to get the hell out of here emergency?"
Racer
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 441
Likes: 1
From: Mascoutah Illinois
OMG 
This is part of the problem with this world we are in, a simple common sense mistake of not reading an instruction manual included with everything you buy that would have prevented this and people try to put the blame some where else 
There is a reason there is an instruction manual included, it's not the dealer's responsibility to read it to you or go over every single detail of the car with you that you buy or an engineering defect. If you CHOOSE to skip the instruction manual you have nobody to blame but yourself!!!!! 
This is part of the problem with this world we are in, a simple common sense mistake of not reading an instruction manual included with everything you buy that would have prevented this and people try to put the blame some where else There is a reason there is an instruction manual included, it's not the dealer's responsibility to read it to you or go over every single detail of the car with you that you buy or an engineering defect. If you CHOOSE to skip the instruction manual you have nobody to blame but yourself!!!!!
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,513
Likes: 86
From: Rocheport Missouri
If it's clearly spelled out in the manual then it's user error.
Those manuals are ungodly thick nowadays because of morons who can't think for themselves. Now we have page after page of warnings and safety bulletins so the manufacturer's don't get sued by said morons.
Those manuals are ungodly thick nowadays because of morons who can't think for themselves. Now we have page after page of warnings and safety bulletins so the manufacturer's don't get sued by said morons.
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 146
Likes: 11
OMG This is part of the problem with this world we are in, a simple common sense mistake of not reading an instruction manual included with everything you buy that would have prevented this and people try to put the blame some where else There is a reason there is an instruction manual included, it's not the dealer's responsibility to read it to you or go over every single detail of the car with you that you buy or an engineering defect. If you CHOOSE to skip the instruction manual you have nobody to blame but yourself!!!!!
This is part of the problem with this world we are in, a simple common sense mistake of not reading an instruction manual included with everything you buy that would have prevented this and people try to put the blame some where else There is a reason there is an instruction manual included, it's not the dealer's responsibility to read it to you or go over every single detail of the car with you that you buy or an engineering defect. If you CHOOSE to skip the instruction manual you have nobody to blame but yourself!!!!! Corvette Stories
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Race Director
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,079
Likes: 1,563
OMG This is part of the problem with this world we are in, a simple common sense mistake of not reading an instruction manual included with everything you buy that would have prevented this and people try to put the blame some where else There is a reason there is an instruction manual included, it's not the dealer's responsibility to read it to you or go over every single detail of the car with you that you buy or an engineering defect. If you CHOOSE to skip the instruction manual you have nobody to blame but yourself!!!!!
This is part of the problem with this world we are in, a simple common sense mistake of not reading an instruction manual included with everything you buy that would have prevented this and people try to put the blame some where else There is a reason there is an instruction manual included, it's not the dealer's responsibility to read it to you or go over every single detail of the car with you that you buy or an engineering defect. If you CHOOSE to skip the instruction manual you have nobody to blame but yourself!!!!!
Racer
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 441
Likes: 1
From: Mascoutah Illinois
See what I mean, put the blame on somebody else. You hit the nail on the head, people DON"T read it, said people have nobody to blame but themselves! And if you bought a vehicle without one, why didn't you request one before accepting the vehicle, it's not like the dealer doesn't have access to them, they are free online.
Edit: Let me get this straight, you are saying you are too lazy to read the instruction manual and put all of your trust that the dealer is going to tell you and show you all of the safety features in the vehicle? Last time I checked the dealers #1 priority is making money and not every salesman on the floor is not 100% knowledgeable about all of the cars on the lot thats for sure!
Edit: Let me get this straight, you are saying you are too lazy to read the instruction manual and put all of your trust that the dealer is going to tell you and show you all of the safety features in the vehicle? Last time I checked the dealers #1 priority is making money and not every salesman on the floor is not 100% knowledgeable about all of the cars on the lot thats for sure!
Last edited by MGretz70; Jun 18, 2015 at 07:08 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,016
Likes: 171
From: Vancouver Island
It's both, Its a dumb design, but easy enough to use once you know how. People are more likely to die from pressing the throttle than getting locked inside, is that a design defect too?
It's reasonable to expect that owners will read the manual and learn how to safely operate the vehicle. If you pin the liability on the manufacturer, then get ready for more warnings on the car, possibly even a requirement that you electronically acknowledge that you've read the manual every time you try to start the car.
It's reasonable to expect that owners will read the manual and learn how to safely operate the vehicle. If you pin the liability on the manufacturer, then get ready for more warnings on the car, possibly even a requirement that you electronically acknowledge that you've read the manual every time you try to start the car.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 82,175
Likes: 1,319
From: McKinney TX
St. Jude Donor '21-'22-'23-'24
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 15,344
Likes: 4,008
From: Texas
See what I mean, put the blame on somebody else. You hit the nail on the head, people DON"T read it, said people have nobody to blame but themselves! And if you bought a vehicle without one, why didn't you request one before accepting the vehicle, it's not like the dealer doesn't have access to them, they are free online.
Before too long.....
Racer
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 352
Likes: 8
If they were bright yellow and super obvious then 99.99999% of buyers would complain that their interior has a bright yellow handle that is always an eye sore.
User error.
edit: You posted right before me ^^ Haha, exactly my point
User error.
edit: You posted right before me ^^ Haha, exactly my point
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,072
Likes: 196
From: Arizona
1. IMHO, Good old-fashioned mechanical door-mounted handles would be just fine. I see little benefit to the electric push-button feature.
2. Before we drive off, I always inform/remind any passenger regarding the emergency handle. I even have them work it so they can know what to do.
2. Before we drive off, I always inform/remind any passenger regarding the emergency handle. I even have them work it so they can know what to do.
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,079
Likes: 1,563
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,056
Likes: 211
From: Central Ohio
The design as it stands is not the norm in the automotive world - that being said it is user error but the dealers should make a point of teaching everyone they can when a safety feature is not as it is in the majority of the auto's built.
It was jokingly suggested in another thread but maybe an aftermarket outfit could make a sleeve or cover in highly fluorescent yellow that an owner could retro onto the existing handle pulls.
It was jokingly suggested in another thread but maybe an aftermarket outfit could make a sleeve or cover in highly fluorescent yellow that an owner could retro onto the existing handle pulls.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 2,721
Likes: 115
From: Phoenix AZ
So I would let myself cook in a car because I cannot open the door without ever thinking:
Is it possible to open the roof while sitting in the car or even break a window?
This is beyond operator error...
Is it possible to open the roof while sitting in the car or even break a window?
This is beyond operator error...
