Certified Pre-Owned problems
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 26
Likes: 1
From: Austin Texas
The car was sold to me by a GM dealership.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 26
Likes: 1
From: Austin Texas
Latest update.
I dropped off the car and only spoke directly with the foreman.
They were able to get the road force numbers down to the following:
FL: 15 FR: 9
RL: 13 RR: 4
He called and said he drove the car, and it felt as if the issue was resolved.
I went to the dealership, and did a test drive with him in the car. The issue still exists, and he acknowledges there is an issue. Oddly enough, the steering stops shaking if you're 80+ going into a curve. As soon as you straighten out the shake is back.
He said the issue would be escalated to his manager to get new front tires. It almost sounds like the service department has to get money from the sales department, and sales doesn't want to budge. This was mentioned in a previous post. As a customer, I obviously don't care. I gave the GM dealership money, and expect the promised product.
It's a GM/Buick dealership, not Chevrolet, and he said they don't have any extra tires to test with, and they only see about one corvette a year in that service department.
On a side note, I found out the car was serviced by this dealership after it was "certified":
March: Fluid Leak-Engine
April: Manual Clutch Slips
Neither of those two issues are relevant to the current issue. I mention it because I was told by sales they weren't aware of any major work on the car. I also don't know if either of those are considered "major".
I should get a call tomorrow afternoon, and will post another update.
I want to reiterate, at this time, I believe the foreman genuinely wants to resolve the issue.
I dropped off the car and only spoke directly with the foreman.
They were able to get the road force numbers down to the following:
FL: 15 FR: 9
RL: 13 RR: 4
He called and said he drove the car, and it felt as if the issue was resolved.
I went to the dealership, and did a test drive with him in the car. The issue still exists, and he acknowledges there is an issue. Oddly enough, the steering stops shaking if you're 80+ going into a curve. As soon as you straighten out the shake is back.
He said the issue would be escalated to his manager to get new front tires. It almost sounds like the service department has to get money from the sales department, and sales doesn't want to budge. This was mentioned in a previous post. As a customer, I obviously don't care. I gave the GM dealership money, and expect the promised product.
It's a GM/Buick dealership, not Chevrolet, and he said they don't have any extra tires to test with, and they only see about one corvette a year in that service department.
On a side note, I found out the car was serviced by this dealership after it was "certified":
March: Fluid Leak-Engine
April: Manual Clutch Slips
Neither of those two issues are relevant to the current issue. I mention it because I was told by sales they weren't aware of any major work on the car. I also don't know if either of those are considered "major".
I should get a call tomorrow afternoon, and will post another update.
I want to reiterate, at this time, I believe the foreman genuinely wants to resolve the issue.
Last edited by jt11; May 24, 2016 at 10:12 PM. Reason: add buick
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 26
Likes: 1
From: Austin Texas
Having worked as a tech, I'm willing to bet they are not trying to screw you, just following simple protocol. If you are CPOing a car, you can only do the speed limit posted for the area, not exceed it, especially with higher end cars. Management tends to frown heavily upon that, along with local law enforcement, as there is usually a 'test route' most techs repeatedly use.
If the car has sat for awhile, it is very possible it has developed flat spots. We saw this all the time, especially at a 'volume dealer' when sales got slow. Since you haven't posted brand/type/tread depth, I'm willing to bet this is your issue. You may be able to road force match the tires, but I've never seen it work that well.
In order to better help you, post up what you have for rubber on this car. Especially interested if they are run flats or not, as run flats resist flat spotting due to the excessively stiff sidewalls.
If the car has sat for awhile, it is very possible it has developed flat spots. We saw this all the time, especially at a 'volume dealer' when sales got slow. Since you haven't posted brand/type/tread depth, I'm willing to bet this is your issue. You may be able to road force match the tires, but I've never seen it work that well.
In order to better help you, post up what you have for rubber on this car. Especially interested if they are run flats or not, as run flats resist flat spotting due to the excessively stiff sidewalls.
It was on this particular lot for almost 3 months. I'll get the tire info and post later tonight.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 26
Likes: 1
From: Austin Texas
Here is my take on GM Certified Pre-Owned vehicles.
If the dealership has a car on the used car lot, and they perform repairs on that car, it gets charged against that car and the margins of the used car dept.
NOW, if the used car dept. puts a CPO warranty on the car, after the car sells, IF the new owner catches the problems, they get paid very well to fix the car and they also get to sell a warranty. If the new owner doesn't catch all or any of the defects they are even farther ahead and still get to sell you a warranty. The used car world is still a cold slimy place. It's much better than the old days with the information we get from the interweb, but it's still a creepy place.
Don't even get me started on the RV industry...
Mark
If the dealership has a car on the used car lot, and they perform repairs on that car, it gets charged against that car and the margins of the used car dept.
NOW, if the used car dept. puts a CPO warranty on the car, after the car sells, IF the new owner catches the problems, they get paid very well to fix the car and they also get to sell a warranty. If the new owner doesn't catch all or any of the defects they are even farther ahead and still get to sell you a warranty. The used car world is still a cold slimy place. It's much better than the old days with the information we get from the interweb, but it's still a creepy place.
Don't even get me started on the RV industry...
Mark
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 26
Likes: 1
From: Austin Texas
Not sure if this is relevant, but the car only has 15k miles. Thought I would over inform. I know cars can have issues pretty quickly, but again, just thought it was worth mentioning.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 26
Likes: 1
From: Austin Texas
Having worked as a tech, I'm willing to bet they are not trying to screw you, just following simple protocol. If you are CPOing a car, you can only do the speed limit posted for the area, not exceed it, especially with higher end cars. Management tends to frown heavily upon that, along with local law enforcement, as there is usually a 'test route' most techs repeatedly use.
If the car has sat for awhile, it is very possible it has developed flat spots. We saw this all the time, especially at a 'volume dealer' when sales got slow. Since you haven't posted brand/type/tread depth, I'm willing to bet this is your issue. You may be able to road force match the tires, but I've never seen it work that well.
In order to better help you, post up what you have for rubber on this car. Especially interested if they are run flats or not, as run flats resist flat spotting due to the excessively stiff sidewalls.
If the car has sat for awhile, it is very possible it has developed flat spots. We saw this all the time, especially at a 'volume dealer' when sales got slow. Since you haven't posted brand/type/tread depth, I'm willing to bet this is your issue. You may be able to road force match the tires, but I've never seen it work that well.
In order to better help you, post up what you have for rubber on this car. Especially interested if they are run flats or not, as run flats resist flat spotting due to the excessively stiff sidewalls.
I don't have a tire gauge to measure depth, but I used the link below from Tire Rack for a "coin" measurement. I realize it's not 100% accurate, but it's what I have for now.
Fronts are approximately 3/32
Rears are approximately 5/32
All tires are Goodyear Eagle F1 run flats. I realize they will have to be replaced soon and knew that when the car was purchased. I just didn't expect to have to purchase new tires the second the paperwork was signed.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=51
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,189
Likes: 145
From: the island of misfit toys
I'm almost afraid to say this, but everyone in the dealership gets a piece of the pie. The salesman gets commission, the GM and GSM get commission, the finance manager gets commission, the parts people get commission, the service techs get commission ...
Regarding our OP, I can definitely see that repairs cut into the sales department's slice of the pie.
You have to be EDUCATED to know the truth, and VERIFY everything they tell you. Working for a dealership has been such an eye-opener for me, and not in a good way.
Just to be clear, I have no idea if every dealership runs like this; maybe it's only the one I work for.
Regarding our OP, I can definitely see that repairs cut into the sales department's slice of the pie.
You have to be EDUCATED to know the truth, and VERIFY everything they tell you. Working for a dealership has been such an eye-opener for me, and not in a good way.
Just to be clear, I have no idea if every dealership runs like this; maybe it's only the one I work for.
Last edited by the kid C6; May 24, 2016 at 10:36 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 11,351
Likes: 2,445
From: Eastern
I don't have a tire gauge to measure depth, but I used the link below from Tire Rack for a "coin" measurement. I realize it's not 100% accurate, but it's what I have for now.
Fronts are approximately 3/32
Rears are approximately 5/32
All tires are Goodyear Eagle F1 run flats. I realize they will have to be replaced soon and knew that when the car was purchased. I just didn't expect to have to purchase new tires the second the paperwork was signed.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=51
Fronts are approximately 3/32
Rears are approximately 5/32
All tires are Goodyear Eagle F1 run flats. I realize they will have to be replaced soon and knew that when the car was purchased. I just didn't expect to have to purchase new tires the second the paperwork was signed.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=51
When I had my OEM GY F1's on, at 4/32" thread, those tires were howling loud, tracked every rut in the road, and became downright dangerous to drive with wet pavement.
I replaced them immediately, and never ever want GY tires again!
Any other brand is superior and much cheaper than thos runcraps.
Good Luck in your quest for a resolve.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,220
Likes: 299
From: Cleburne Texas
Exactly, I bought my Tahoe from a Chevrolet dealership but not from GM, according to the GM rep. There are 2 different companies here, the maker and the dealership. It was sold new once to the dealer and will carry a warranty that is passed on to the new owner. When it is traded in and sold by a dealer a second time it is not being sold by GM and therefore GM has washed it's hands of it. Not my explanation but the GMs representative's explanation. I do hope you get satisfaction!
Last edited by 64Corvette; May 25, 2016 at 12:37 AM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,402
Likes: 1
Burn the rear tires off, put Michelin's all around, get a good alignment. Problem solved. I seem to remember minimum for GM CPO being 6/32nds. I could be wrong.
Truth be told, OP, it sounds like somebody beat on this car, bad. Even if your measurements are off, you stated the car had sub 20k miles? You also stated the car had seen warranty work for fluid drips (not uncommon to GM, usually oil pan), but clutch slip raises a red flag for me. Clutch linings should last 100k easy even if you 'enjoy' the car thoroughly.
I would suggest taking the car to a reputable independent Corvette shop and pay to have them inspect with a fine tooth comb before CPO warranty expires. BTW, GM CPO is good at any GM dealer for future reference.
Truth be told, OP, it sounds like somebody beat on this car, bad. Even if your measurements are off, you stated the car had sub 20k miles? You also stated the car had seen warranty work for fluid drips (not uncommon to GM, usually oil pan), but clutch slip raises a red flag for me. Clutch linings should last 100k easy even if you 'enjoy' the car thoroughly.
I would suggest taking the car to a reputable independent Corvette shop and pay to have them inspect with a fine tooth comb before CPO warranty expires. BTW, GM CPO is good at any GM dealer for future reference.
Last edited by Pinky...; May 25, 2016 at 01:30 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,408
Likes: 3,485
From: Granada Hills CA
[QUOTE=LV2TOUR;1592263872]You did it the correct way for sure. Now, as far as the shop couldn't get your steering straight??? WOW!!! I'm amazed that a GY tire shop can't figure out a way to straighten out a steering wheel with an alignment.
Even if they forget to lock down the steering wheel prior to an alignment, they can manipulate the total toe after the fact to straighten out the wheel.
It's not just a Goodyear shop that can screw up a steering wheel after an alignment. Even though they generally get raves on this forum, Discount Tire did an alignment on my '13 GS and left me with a cockeyed wheel. Lived with it for a while but then I had an alignment done at the Chevy dealer and they managed to straighten it out. I sent a nice letter to the founder/CEO of Discount Tire pointing out the problem I had and did not receive a response. I will not be going back there.
Even if they forget to lock down the steering wheel prior to an alignment, they can manipulate the total toe after the fact to straighten out the wheel.
It's not just a Goodyear shop that can screw up a steering wheel after an alignment. Even though they generally get raves on this forum, Discount Tire did an alignment on my '13 GS and left me with a cockeyed wheel. Lived with it for a while but then I had an alignment done at the Chevy dealer and they managed to straighten it out. I sent a nice letter to the founder/CEO of Discount Tire pointing out the problem I had and did not receive a response. I will not be going back there.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 26
Likes: 1
From: Austin Texas
I wasn't able to post last night, but things seem to be progressing. The dealership authorized purchase on new front tires. They still don't know if that is the root cause, but we'll find out. I'll post more info as it comes in, and explain what it took to get to this point.
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 71
Likes: 7
From: Baltimore MD
I would call GM Cust Svc and lodge a formal complaint
Hey everyone,
I bought my first real sports car last week! It's a '12 coupe. It's more than powerful to me, and looks beautiful. The forum has been great to learn more about the car. I have an issue, and wanted opinions from you all. Will use bullet points to keep it short:
-Certified pre-owned '12 coupe purchased from GM dealership
-Purchased the car last week
-There were a couple of minor issues which have been addressed (bad seal around headlamp, and molding around real wheels falling off)
-Within 36 hours of purchase, I noticed the steering shakes bad over 80 MPH, and contacted the dealership. The sales manager said the issue would be addressed and not to worry
-Car was dropped off yesterday, got it back today. The advisor called me and said the balance was off on the front tires, which they resolved. He said to come pick up the car, but stated he didn't know if the steering shake issue was resolved
-After driving home, I noticed the steering still shakes. I checked the invoice and noticed the comments for the road force reading was in the 20-25 range for both front tires.
-After reading posts here, I realized that was not in an acceptable range.
-I called the service department, the advisor was gone, but spoke to the foreman. He stated the reading was out of spec for the car. I asked why the advisor didn't notify me of this, when it seems to be an obvious problem. It came close to hearing excuses, but that quickly ended.
-Apparently the car became CPO months ago, and not necessarily when I signed the papers. He said he would have to speak to the sales manager again. It sounds like changing the tires are the fix, but the sales manager is not willing to address it.
-I purchased a CPO because I thought GM would stand by their product. I understand maintenance costs associated with sports cars, but to purchase a car that needs repairs before it's off the lot seems ridiculous to me.
-Any suggestions? Am I wrong to expect GM to sell me a CPO car that is stable at normal freeway speeds the day I drive it off the lot?
Looking forward to the good, bad, and ugly comments!
Thanks ahead of time!
For clarification, I am by no means an automotive expert in any way.
I bought my first real sports car last week! It's a '12 coupe. It's more than powerful to me, and looks beautiful. The forum has been great to learn more about the car. I have an issue, and wanted opinions from you all. Will use bullet points to keep it short:
-Certified pre-owned '12 coupe purchased from GM dealership
-Purchased the car last week
-There were a couple of minor issues which have been addressed (bad seal around headlamp, and molding around real wheels falling off)
-Within 36 hours of purchase, I noticed the steering shakes bad over 80 MPH, and contacted the dealership. The sales manager said the issue would be addressed and not to worry
-Car was dropped off yesterday, got it back today. The advisor called me and said the balance was off on the front tires, which they resolved. He said to come pick up the car, but stated he didn't know if the steering shake issue was resolved
-After driving home, I noticed the steering still shakes. I checked the invoice and noticed the comments for the road force reading was in the 20-25 range for both front tires.
-After reading posts here, I realized that was not in an acceptable range.
-I called the service department, the advisor was gone, but spoke to the foreman. He stated the reading was out of spec for the car. I asked why the advisor didn't notify me of this, when it seems to be an obvious problem. It came close to hearing excuses, but that quickly ended.
-Apparently the car became CPO months ago, and not necessarily when I signed the papers. He said he would have to speak to the sales manager again. It sounds like changing the tires are the fix, but the sales manager is not willing to address it.
-I purchased a CPO because I thought GM would stand by their product. I understand maintenance costs associated with sports cars, but to purchase a car that needs repairs before it's off the lot seems ridiculous to me.
-Any suggestions? Am I wrong to expect GM to sell me a CPO car that is stable at normal freeway speeds the day I drive it off the lot?
Looking forward to the good, bad, and ugly comments!
Thanks ahead of time!
For clarification, I am by no means an automotive expert in any way.
I was shocked at the lack of concern and support for what is supposed to be a vehicle free of faulty contitions, and something the purchase is based upon. The in ability to source parts in America for an iconic car of an iconic American Company continues to amaze me. The dealers base their responsibility on job codes and compensation from GM. Once the issue is identified the Dealer will not touch it without either telling the customer its not covered and good luck or getting authorization from GM.
I think at least logging it with GM it goes into a database that will be used in the future to improve Customer Relations. Perhaps it will get the attention of an upper level CS Exec and that may help you get it resolved. Good Luck !
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 8,055
Likes: 2,694
From: New Mexico
2018 C6 of Year Finalist
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,402
Likes: 1
So first, Congratulations ! I also purchased a 2012 CPO GS in November. I am also fighting a Warranty issue. As of today (2 months later after the initial service appt), no one can tell me when the parts to replace the fuel sending unit will be available. It will be covered, but until parts are available;I have to live with the problem.
I was shocked at the lack of concern and support for what is supposed to be a vehicle free of faulty contitions, and something the purchase is based upon. The in ability to source parts in America for an iconic car of an iconic American Company continues to amaze me. The dealers base their responsibility on job codes and compensation from GM. Once the issue is identified the Dealer will not touch it without either telling the customer its not covered and good luck or getting authorization from GM.
I think at least logging it with GM it goes into a database that will be used in the future to improve Customer Relations. Perhaps it will get the attention of an upper level CS Exec and that may help you get it resolved. Good Luck !
I was shocked at the lack of concern and support for what is supposed to be a vehicle free of faulty contitions, and something the purchase is based upon. The in ability to source parts in America for an iconic car of an iconic American Company continues to amaze me. The dealers base their responsibility on job codes and compensation from GM. Once the issue is identified the Dealer will not touch it without either telling the customer its not covered and good luck or getting authorization from GM.
I think at least logging it with GM it goes into a database that will be used in the future to improve Customer Relations. Perhaps it will get the attention of an upper level CS Exec and that may help you get it resolved. Good Luck !
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 71
Likes: 7
From: Baltimore MD
It's probably back ordered because there's a lot of folks like you who all have the same issue on a previous generation car. Calling CS will do nothing for you. It's not a grand conspiracy. Nobody is trying to screw you. It's simply how it is. At the end of the day, GM doesn't make parts. Their sub contractors do.
This is America.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 26
Likes: 1
From: Austin Texas
ISSUE RESOLVED!
Long story short.
Dealership said it was probably tires, but were unwilling to replace the tires, even though the tires were bad when I signed the paperwork. They opened a ticket with GM, and they said to temporarily change tires to test it. They told me it couldn't be done since they don't have extra tires sitting around.
I went online and found all their email addresses. I then sent an email to everyone I communicated with and included the general manager, President of GM, and GM customer care.
The next day they called and were unhappy with my escalation, but they wanted to suddenly resolve the issue. The general manager called and said they would buy new front tires.
I also opened a case with GM customer care.
http://www.gm.com/lemon-law.html
In my emails to them, I mentioned all I wanted was a car to perform as expected. No free services, or anything else.
The tires were replaced and the steering no longer shakes. It's hilarious considering they tried to convince me the steering shake was normal, even when I had the foreman in the car.
I'll never do business with that dealership again, as I believe they are incompetent/indifferent/deceitful. I used those exact words in my email to them.
After the tires were replaced, I took the car to an independent corvette mechanic, he says the car looks good. No indication the car was improperly cared for.
Now I love my car! It's not as cool as some of yours, but it's more than enough for me. For now...
Thanks everyone for your suggestions and help!
That's all it was.
Long story short.
Dealership said it was probably tires, but were unwilling to replace the tires, even though the tires were bad when I signed the paperwork. They opened a ticket with GM, and they said to temporarily change tires to test it. They told me it couldn't be done since they don't have extra tires sitting around.
I went online and found all their email addresses. I then sent an email to everyone I communicated with and included the general manager, President of GM, and GM customer care.
The next day they called and were unhappy with my escalation, but they wanted to suddenly resolve the issue. The general manager called and said they would buy new front tires.
I also opened a case with GM customer care.
http://www.gm.com/lemon-law.html
In my emails to them, I mentioned all I wanted was a car to perform as expected. No free services, or anything else.
The tires were replaced and the steering no longer shakes. It's hilarious considering they tried to convince me the steering shake was normal, even when I had the foreman in the car.
I'll never do business with that dealership again, as I believe they are incompetent/indifferent/deceitful. I used those exact words in my email to them.
After the tires were replaced, I took the car to an independent corvette mechanic, he says the car looks good. No indication the car was improperly cared for.
Now I love my car! It's not as cool as some of yours, but it's more than enough for me. For now...
Thanks everyone for your suggestions and help!
That's all it was.
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,048
Likes: 1,478
From: South Florida
Some dealerships don't understand that when you sell a used car like a corvette you must put new tires on it. they should have put new tires on it before it even went out to sale. My 2011 Z06 came with brand new tires from the dealer at only 11,000 mies when I bought it used.
That said, I knew after reading your original post it needed new tires. Nice that you got the dealer to replace them but technically they legally did not have to. they just got tired of the complaining.
Enjoy the new ride!
That said, I knew after reading your original post it needed new tires. Nice that you got the dealer to replace them but technically they legally did not have to. they just got tired of the complaining.
Enjoy the new ride!
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,187
Likes: 1,216
From: Las Vegas Nevada
So, for the cost of new front tires, they...1. lost a customer for life; 2. got all kinds of bad press on the one forum they can ill afford bad press on; and, 3. got us all to shake our heads in agreement that dealers need to be watched like a hawk.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 26
Likes: 1
From: Austin Texas
I debated on an IS-F vs Corvette, and am glad I picked the vette. I just wish all GM dealerships could learn how to treat customers.
I'm no longer anti-GM, but will be careful picking dealers in the future.