No change to the looks of Corvettes from year to year anymore
08-22-2017, 08:43 PM
#21
Regarding Mercedes.. I have 107 model Mercedes that was made from 1972 to 1989... here are photos of one of the best Mercedes cars ever made during that time frame. engine change was the biggest change made thru the years. thus 280SL, 300SL, 420SL, 380SL, 450SL, 350SL, 500SL and 560SL - number being the engine size in liters
You made some very valid points. Someone mentioned Mercedes and BMW's in an earlier post. They make so many different models and all of them are so very similar to each other that's it hard to tell them apart.
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carl3989 (07-17-2019)
08-22-2017, 08:47 PM
#22
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
It's all about the money.
The molds are incredibly expensive.
The testing & development time to meet EPA mandates, to meet car safety standards and CAFE standards are all time consuming locking a manufacturer down for years.
I will say that many legacy cars (Mercedes, Porsche etc) have looked nearly the same for many years - they refer to it as timeless. I like the fact that for a 9 year span the cars looked identical. Makes finding spare parts easier, aftermarket parts easier to find & makes someone with a 2005 look like they are driving a 2015 so that can be a bonus for the car owners.
The molds are incredibly expensive.
The testing & development time to meet EPA mandates, to meet car safety standards and CAFE standards are all time consuming locking a manufacturer down for years.
I will say that many legacy cars (Mercedes, Porsche etc) have looked nearly the same for many years - they refer to it as timeless. I like the fact that for a 9 year span the cars looked identical. Makes finding spare parts easier, aftermarket parts easier to find & makes someone with a 2005 look like they are driving a 2015 so that can be a bonus for the car owners.
08-22-2017, 08:53 PM
#23
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08-22-2017, 09:38 PM
#24
I remember as a kid growing up in Detroit my dad taking me to all the dealerships every fall to see the new cars. Mostly they went 2 years on the major design, with a facelift in between. His best friend was a GM deisgner, he knew what the new
cars looked like 3-4 years in advance but never talked about it, could have cost him his job.
The idea behind planned obsolescence was that increased sales volume due to people not wanting to be seen driving an "obsolete" car would more than offset the design and retooling cost. Which it probably did, because the big four stuck to it from just after WWII through part of the 70s.
EPA and safety regulations became major expenses. A rapid rise in gas prices coupled with the threat of rationing spurred the sudden demand for fuel-efficient cars. That usurped much of the US automakers' budget as they tried to combat foreign competition at the same time UAW strikes and new contracts drove labor costs up. US automakers looked to foreign automakers for a succesful business model, as high gas prices and taxation were staples of those economies, and saw that long product life was a key element.
cars looked like 3-4 years in advance but never talked about it, could have cost him his job.
The idea behind planned obsolescence was that increased sales volume due to people not wanting to be seen driving an "obsolete" car would more than offset the design and retooling cost. Which it probably did, because the big four stuck to it from just after WWII through part of the 70s.
EPA and safety regulations became major expenses. A rapid rise in gas prices coupled with the threat of rationing spurred the sudden demand for fuel-efficient cars. That usurped much of the US automakers' budget as they tried to combat foreign competition at the same time UAW strikes and new contracts drove labor costs up. US automakers looked to foreign automakers for a succesful business model, as high gas prices and taxation were staples of those economies, and saw that long product life was a key element.
08-22-2017, 09:43 PM
#25
Melting Slicks
You aren't considering the variety of models that car makers produce now. Back in '53, there was the Chevy, the Chevy Truck and the Corvette. That carried on to '59 when they added the Corvair. And '62 they added the Chevy II, then the Chevelle in '64. Many of these cars (except the Corvair) shared engines and drivetrains, the chassis were carried over many years.
Now I think Chevy has more different models of SUVs than models in the '50s.
Now I think Chevy has more different models of SUVs than models in the '50s.
Last edited by LowRyter; 08-22-2017 at 09:44 PM.
08-23-2017, 08:21 AM
#26
That's what makes some of those old cars so valuable today. The 69 Camaro was a one year only body style. The Mustang was was different from 68 to 69 to 70 to 71. That's why newer generations of Corvette don't go up in value as much as some would like. Because they made so many of them year after year without many changes. I spent a few years searching for a 70 Mach 1 in the right condition for the right price, but to no avail. There's not too many of them out there when they only made that exact body style for one year.
When I was shopping for my Corvette and narrowed my search down to a very specific want: GrandSport Convertible with a 6MT and HUD, that gave me a search range of cars between 2010 and 2013. If I just wanted a base Vette with an LS3/MT6, I'd have a wider search range of cars between 2008 and 2013.
If I wanted something like an LT1/4 speed convertible C3, that would have been three years only. If I was buying a Tri-Five Chevy I'd be looking at a '55 only (never liked the look of the 56 or 57). If I wanted something like a Hemi 'Cuda, that would be two years only.
08-23-2017, 10:08 AM
#27
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08-23-2017, 12:31 PM
#28
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The last exterior change on a later Vette was from 1990 to 1991. That's when I started liking a C4. The wide body GS really helped keep C6 alive as it dominated sales over a base car. There is no car that needs a nice mid cycle exterior refresh more than a C7!
08-23-2017, 12:54 PM
#29
how about just an *** end change? That would do it and then it would lower the value of the ugly *** end C7.
08-23-2017, 02:29 PM
#31
08-23-2017, 02:34 PM
#32
That's an interesting point that I never thought about.
When I was shopping for my Corvette and narrowed my search down to a very specific want: GrandSport Convertible with a 6MT and HUD, that gave me a search range of cars between 2010 and 2013. If I just wanted a base Vette with an LS3/MT6, I'd have a wider search range of cars between 2008 and 2013.
If I wanted something like an LT1/4 speed convertible C3, that would have been three years only. If I was buying a Tri-Five Chevy I'd be looking at a '55 only (never liked the look of the 56 or 57). If I wanted something like a Hemi 'Cuda, that would be two years only.
When I was shopping for my Corvette and narrowed my search down to a very specific want: GrandSport Convertible with a 6MT and HUD, that gave me a search range of cars between 2010 and 2013. If I just wanted a base Vette with an LS3/MT6, I'd have a wider search range of cars between 2008 and 2013.
If I wanted something like an LT1/4 speed convertible C3, that would have been three years only. If I was buying a Tri-Five Chevy I'd be looking at a '55 only (never liked the look of the 56 or 57). If I wanted something like a Hemi 'Cuda, that would be two years only.
08-23-2017, 02:37 PM
#33
Drifting
The side gills changed later in the C4 run (1996, I think, but maybe 1995, from horizontal slats to a single vertical vent). I agree the change from 90 to 91 was the last "major" change ...
It would not cost much to change something like the side gills every year (no certifications, etc. since it is a non-structural, non emissions piece). There are of course lots of logistics reasons (more part numbers to track and stock, etc.), but it would be easy enough to do if they thought it added value. Obviously they do not think it does.
It would not cost much to change something like the side gills every year (no certifications, etc. since it is a non-structural, non emissions piece). There are of course lots of logistics reasons (more part numbers to track and stock, etc.), but it would be easy enough to do if they thought it added value. Obviously they do not think it does.
08-23-2017, 03:27 PM
#34
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Also '70 Chevelle is another one of my favorites.
Last edited by TorchRedFred; 08-23-2017 at 03:28 PM.
08-23-2017, 10:58 PM
#35
Le Mans Master
Turbo, It's not Corvette's, it was/is all cars. TYhe car culture changed dramatically in the early-70's. People no longer flocked to the showroom in September to see the new vehicles, probably due to hefty restrictions on horsepower, and the increased influence of Japanese imports. Since redesigning every year was so costly, there was no need to do it if so few people were interested in the newest vehicle.
Fast forward 30 years, add in all the safety and emission requirements, and it makes it virtually impossible to redesign any more often than 5-10 years. Why do it if few people are interested? It is only going to get worse, and sooner rather than later.
Fast forward 30 years, add in all the safety and emission requirements, and it makes it virtually impossible to redesign any more often than 5-10 years. Why do it if few people are interested? It is only going to get worse, and sooner rather than later.
08-24-2017, 04:52 AM
#36
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buckmeister ....
Good point
Good point
08-24-2017, 08:47 AM
#37
Le Mans Master
I am talking about Corvettes within the same generation.
If you look at the various year models of the C1, C2, and C3 Corvettes, there were differences in the exterior design from year to year. You would see it in the grill, or various other things.
But, for some reason, this don't happen anymore ... If you look at the exterior of a 2005 C6 and the exterior of a 2113 C6, you just can't tell them apart with the exception of the wheels or maybe the color will be the 'giveaway'.
Ok, the early C6's had a "chicklet" and the newer ones don't, but I am talking about real changes that are more noticeable.
Why do you suppose that is?
_______________________________
Exterior design changes were REALLY NOTICEABLE back in the 50s and 60s.
A 57 Chevy looked nothing like a 58
A 58 looked nothing like a 59
Or a 60 or a 61 or a 62 ... Big change in 1965 Chev vs 1964.
_______________________________
I wonder why it was so much cheaper and easier to do a complete re-tool every year back then, but almost an impossibility to do it nowdays?
Used to be, people would wait for the day the new year model cars got to the local dealer's showroom because every year they would be so much different.
Now, nobody really waits to see the new Chevy Impala the day it is to arrive in the showroom ... Everyone knows that it will look just about like last years model ... No Fun There !
If you look at the various year models of the C1, C2, and C3 Corvettes, there were differences in the exterior design from year to year. You would see it in the grill, or various other things.
But, for some reason, this don't happen anymore ... If you look at the exterior of a 2005 C6 and the exterior of a 2113 C6, you just can't tell them apart with the exception of the wheels or maybe the color will be the 'giveaway'.
Ok, the early C6's had a "chicklet" and the newer ones don't, but I am talking about real changes that are more noticeable.
Why do you suppose that is?
_______________________________
Exterior design changes were REALLY NOTICEABLE back in the 50s and 60s.
A 57 Chevy looked nothing like a 58
A 58 looked nothing like a 59
Or a 60 or a 61 or a 62 ... Big change in 1965 Chev vs 1964.
_______________________________
I wonder why it was so much cheaper and easier to do a complete re-tool every year back then, but almost an impossibility to do it nowdays?
Used to be, people would wait for the day the new year model cars got to the local dealer's showroom because every year they would be so much different.
Now, nobody really waits to see the new Chevy Impala the day it is to arrive in the showroom ... Everyone knows that it will look just about like last years model ... No Fun There !
So two things occurred. First, import pressure forced the (then) Big Three to get leaner meaning fewer changes per cycle.
Second, in 1960 or so, a car would have signficiant wear at 20k miles so it'd be an excuse to replace if you can. Today, 200k on a car is like 20k then.
08-24-2017, 10:45 AM
#39
I like all gen 1 camaros bout the same. Ideally a 67 or 68 Z would be the first car i'd buy if I win a small lottery. But would probably have to settle for a 69 cause the 67 & 68's are hard to find. Not that I would complain about a 69 though....lOL.
08-24-2017, 12:01 PM
#40
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Yeah, they are all keepers. I tried buying a '69 on two different occasions, but just couldn't agree on a fair price. I definitely wouldn't mind a 67 or 68 either.