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Hey guys - a quick update to answer a couple questions.
- The engine has just under 38k miles.
- The dealer diagnosed the lifter buy removing the valve covers and inspecting the push rods and rocker arms. They show no signs of damage. The squeal is coming from the driver's side head and it just comes down to what else could it be? The lifter is most "likely". I was not aware of this diag method until this morning I went to the dealer to talk to them in person.
After sleeping on this over night, I changed my mind about the replacement...for now. I told them that a engine replacement seems like the nuclear option for a bad lifter and indicated that I was going to take the car elsewhere for a 2nd opinion and they didn't like that. So we agreed that they need a visual inspection of the lifters and cam. I'm assuming that the cam will have been damaged too. So we agreed that if it is, I'll purchase a replacement cam myself for them to install along with their lifters for the same $4k cost previously quoted. The cam is about $400.
If they get in there and can show me that the engine is damaged beyond reasonable repair they've dropped the LS3 engine swap cost by $2k. So that option is still there. Additionally - they have included the LS376/495 engine option for $9,300 +tax, installed.
I expect to be able to visually inspect the lifters/cam myself tomorrow and will go from there.
Side note - I never realized you could haggle with the service department. I thought that was reserved for sales. Who knew.
You've never heard of it because it's not a "diagnostic method" its a process of elimination step. Sounds like they didn't even pull the rockers. There is still no diagnosis yet.
Your dealer doesn't know what they're doing, and you won't know the difference when they lie to you. Take is somewhere else.
This is a pen I made from a pushrod out of one my mustangs. It made a similar noise, loud clacks when warmed up. When cold everything checked fine unitl I decided to pull them all out.
You can see the portion where it seated to the lifter, the hardening wasn't done properly and once the car was sufficiently warmed up it would start to jump the rocker pocket making the noise. It would still however check out fine when cold and just removing the valve covers showed no problems. Until I removed a rocker and saw this.
Do I think that's what your problem is? Maybe, maybe not. Could be a failed or seized trunnion too. But you won't know until they actually remove parts. "Looks fine" is the lazy way to **** you for thousands of dollars.
I mean, (and once again- no offense) I've had mine for about seven years. I've only romped on it hard about three times when I first got it. And all three times I almost lost control of it-it went all over the road.
I was at a cruise in last night and a guy parked next to me in a 427 Camaro with, he said 680 hp. He was complaining because his back tires were bald. "And those things ain't cheap either", he replied.
Aaaaaaaaaaah...OK.
When we were teens, my buddies and I would laugh at all the old men we saw driving bone-stock, quiet, automatic Corvettes. What was the point? -- we always wondered.
Now I am that old man, although I do like to crank on it when the road is clear and no cops around.
But souping it up? (sorry millennials, I know the modern term is "modding") Haha, no thanks, not interested any more. Constant fixing, tinkering, tweaking, replacing, yadda yadda is mostly a young man's game.
I am feeling kind of dumb here. I see several posts referring to a "lifter bearing". I have never heard of such an animal. Are we referring to the bearing on the rocker arm? I can't understand where a lifter has a bearing. Could someone explain?
Last edited by Sledge Hammer; 07-12-2018 at 12:41 PM.
I am feeling kind of dumb here. I see several posts referring to a "lifter bearing". I have never heard of such an animal. Are we referring to the bearing on the rocker arm? I can't understand wear a lifter has a bearing. Could someone explain?
A lifter has a bearing on the roller. It's a specific type of failure separate from a "lifter failure" as that is when the internal poppet or spring fails. One is serviceable, one is not. Most aftermarket lifters the internals can be rebuilt, however the lifter bearing generally cannot.
A lifter has a bearing on the roller. It's a specific type of failure separate from a "lifter failure" as that is when the internal poppet or spring fails. One is serviceable, one is not. Most aftermarket lifters the internals can be rebuilt, however the lifter bearing generally cannot.
Boy, now I feel really dumb. I forgot all about these engines having roller lifters. I am old and was thinking of the old style lifters. Thanks for enlightening me.
A lifter has a bearing on the roller. It's a specific type of failure separate from a "lifter failure" as that is when the internal poppet or spring fails. One is serviceable, one is not. Most aftermarket lifters the internals can be rebuilt, however the lifter bearing generally cannot.
And, with luck, the bearing is squealing but has not frozen up...yet. I can't image there isn't damage to the cam from increased tension and/or metal particles.
And, with luck, the bearing is squealing but has not frozen up...yet. I can't image there isn't damage to the cam from increased tension and/or metal particles.
That squeeling could be any friction surface, main bearing, rod bearing, cam bearing, trunnion bearing, alternator pulley, AC compressor, rod bushing, oil pump, etc. Beyond obvious it could also be a bent pushrod rubbing against the pushrod chanel, or a valve guide or lifter seizing in the bore and doing the same thing. They're all mostly extreme cases but I have had and seen them happen.
But yes, any chance of localized damage is very slim.
Last edited by Shaolin Crane; 07-12-2018 at 02:19 PM.
Passenger side head was pulled, two lifter issues found on that side alone. I went there and inspected myself. 3rd lifter in from firewall while probably not squealing, definitely is wearing out in a bad way as well as the cam lobe. See pics. That's not normal for 38k miles.
Also, the last lifter on that side won't come out at all. It's been grinding on the cam to the point that it's changed shape and will not come out through the top. I was able to put my finger between the cam and the lifter and you can feel it disfigured as well as see the grinding on the cam lobe there as well.
I've seen enough that I feel like this is an endless circle if I choose to band-aid and just try to replace lifters and cam hope all is well, especially with the stuck lifter. Fix this and then what next? The reality is that the mods done to the car were from the previous owner. With 600HP at the crank and other various mods I can only speculate that the car may have had a hard life before I got it. I'm going with the LS376/495. While they're in there I'm having them change out the clutch, master and slave. It's expensive af and I'll never get my money out of it but I should be good to go for quite a while and I have a 50k mile warranty. Done.
For all those saying to take it somewhere else...I tried. There apparently is no one available. Not a single call back from the couple performance shops I could find locally. That's not the kind of place I want to do business with.
BTW, I am getting the old engine back and I will have it rebuilt and sell it.
Pitted lifter:
2nd slot in you can see pits on the cam and on the 3rd you can see where that lifter has been riding on the side of the cam lobe, not flat. Neither a good sign. With that much going on with this one side, I can't imagine the driver's side is all good.
I was told they were paired with the cam as well as the rods from BTR.
Everyone says that and they're wrong 90% of the time. Most throw a set of massive springs and think that's all they need to do. With stock lifters the spring rates have to be precise, usually about 40-50lbs more than the stock ones at most. If a cam setup calls for more, then it's time to change the lifters.
Update - The new LS3/480 has been installed. I have to say I'm as happy as can be given the way I got here. In the end, it's a little more tame than what I had but so far it's not a bad thing. The drive-ability at low RPM is much better with no surge. While I haven't really opened it up due to the break-in period, it's still very powerful. 480HP engineered by GM with a 2year/50k mile warranty isn't terrible.
Well for anyone interested in the crate LS3/480 "hot cam" engine, here's the dyno results. Includes cold intake, long tube headers, 3" exhaust, high flow cats and Borla S-Type II.
never get your money back but crap happens to modded cars so for 12 grand you got a 480 warrantied motor that will last another 300k miles...
for 12 grand you made the right choice ..
with the headers and the dyno reads ~440 rwhp (hard to read) so what does that mean at the flywheel? 15 percent drivetrain loss? 525?
the other option could have been a used motor but the potiential issues would have been unknown and not worth your time
thanks for sharing..
fwiw i had modded c5 ls6 (small cam) that took a dump. I sold,the car without the working motor for 14.5 and just bought a new c6 z51 m6 for around fifty grand...
simetimes i miss my cammed 500 hp z06 but honestly the ls3 c6 staying relatively stock gives unbeliebable reliability.
i have 125k miles on my c6 z51 m6 and the car looks and drives like new. Utterly reliable sports car.
the 495 hp version you bought sounds awesome,
have fun for a 100k miles
Last edited by JerriVette; 08-26-2018 at 06:13 AM.
Update - The new LS3/480 has been installed. I have to say I'm as happy as can be given the way I got here. In the end, it's a little more tame than what I had but so far it's not a bad thing. The drive-ability at low RPM is much better with no surge. While I haven't really opened it up due to the break-in period, it's still very powerful. 480HP engineered by GM with a 2year/50k mile warranty isn't terrible.
So, I am in the same boat as you. I was about to make a new thread and came across this one. My base 2011 stock LS3 with about 145k KMS (90k miles), was having all sorts of misfires within 2 weeks of buying it. Sluggish power in low end as well. It all happened after my mechanic ran Sea Foam on it: https://seafoamsales.com/product/sea...fuel-additive/ I feel like he did not run it properly. When the smoke was coming out of the exhaust, he took it was a little drive to clear it out. I suspect he drove it hard which you are not supposed to because the Sea Foam dilutes the engine oil and I was supposed to have it changed right after. When he came back, there was a loud ticking noise from the engine. I had to leave to pick up my daughter and drove it out of there. About 20km later, the ticking was more subdued and thought it was just some crap that was burning out. I was getting intermittent engine lights and the SAH messages. Anyway, I had the oil changed again (5w30 Mobil One). The ticking noise never fully went away but engine light did. A few days later, I drove over to the bank. Car ran fine and I parked it. When I started the car in parking lot, it was turning over and over and not starting. After a few tries, it started up but made a horrendous noise from engine. I drove around the corner to the pub and parked there because I don't think it would have made it home. Went inside to have a drink because I was pissed. When I started it again, it did the same thing. Started but making a lot of noise and then died after 20 seconds. Then, would not turn over at all.
I had it towed to a recommended mechanics that works for GM but has his own shop. Basically exact same thing as what you wrote above. He opened the heads and found nothing wrong at the top. Everything looked new. He could not manually turn engine over. He suspects a broken bearing(s) based on the noises I heard and offered me the same options - 1. Spend the labor to open it up and possibly fix it for about $2-4k but that still would not be guaranteed to last. 2. Drop in a new motor which I am leaning towards. I also got 2 options for engines:
1. 19370411 - CPP LS3 376CID 495 HP CRATE ENGINE at $7600
2. 19370416 - LS3 6.2L 430HP GEN IV CPP CRATE ENGINE at $8100
I am leaning towards 1 obviously but the mechanic is recommending that I replace the torque converter to handle the extra power which is an extra $600. Wondering if you can offer any advice on this?
Thanks for reading
Last edited by Hitesh Sonegra; 08-05-2019 at 07:27 PM.
07-11-2018, 03:12 PM
Constant fixing, tinkering, tweaking, replacing, yadda yadda is mostly a young man's game. 
Just ask on the C6 Z06 Thread!
