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Just upgraded from my 89 to a 2005 with 100k miles. Everything was good for a week. Now when I romp on it the belt jumps over 1 or 2 notches on the balancer and shreds the belt. By my eye it looks like the HB is protruding out 1-2 grooves worth. Faces on the HB are flat and it does not appear to have any wobble. I have a tensioner on the way but don't have a lot of hope. Bolt on the HB is at least finger tight. Vin is 36474 so out of the first batch issues. What else could cause the misalignment in the pulley system? What else can I check or test?
My guess is the balancer walked out and may be spinning slightly on the crank. Do not drive anymore until you at the minimum install and tighten a NEW crank bolt to the proper torque.
( Caveat: I'm not a professional mechanic but I do my own work )
Guessing here. The balancer looks near new to me. Perhaps the bolt is not torqued to (IIRC) 240 ft-lbs. I don't see how you can go wrong checking the torque or even using the preferred method of an angle gauge. You should use a new bolt, but if it is under tightened I would think you would be ok and under the torque to yield stretch.
At 100k replacing the tensioner is probably a good idea even if this is not the problem.
If the balance fails should be able to see it. The danger if you don't catch it is that it could damage the timing cover or hit the steering rack.
Thanks for the reply. I actually read your thread twice when trying to figure mine out. I wish I knew the service history. I'm just thrown because the two rings on the HB are nice and level and the rubber looks good. Maybe somebody replaced it and didn't use a new bolt or didn't torque properly. Ill torque it now and see if it pulls in any or how many turns I can get out of it. About what torque does the engine start turning over?
Thanks for the reply. I actually read your thread twice when trying to figure mine out. I wish I knew the service history. I'm just thrown because the two rings on the HB are nice and level and the rubber looks good. Maybe somebody replaced it and didn't use a new bolt or didn't torque properly. Ill torque it now and see if it pulls in any or how many turns I can get out of it. About what torque does the engine start turning over?
I think (since I have only worked on manuals) for automatics the parking pawl should hold for any torque you need. On the manuals, the clutches can handle at least 400 ft-lbs of torque (based on my 05) so you should be OK. So for manuals just put it in gear and chock the wheels. For automatics put it in Park.
There is no way to get any kind of ratchet in there. 7/8 worth of clearance....before hitting the steering. Ill see if harbor freight has some weird too to make it happen, otherwise to the shop for a new balancer I guess. Maybe a cam while its torn apart.
AS A NOTE. I know you can't re torque it. Stretch to yield blah blah. Ill make it to the shop soon to fix it right. Just trying to get by for now.
Well, was able to actually get an open end wrench on it and tighten down 1/8 turn at a time. Started at finger tight but got like 3 revolutions out of the bolt. It was either pulling in the harmonic balancer, or stripping the bolt so I chickened out to ask advice.
I understand the shop manual says use the old bolt and torque to like 200 something ft lbs to seat the pulley. Then get a new bolt and torque to like 40 lb. There is no way I put 200 lbs on a wrench with small cheater bar. Like 1.5 ft total length. Right?
there were some metal shavings i noticed in the pulley, but thats got to be from the bolt scrubbing on the pulley right? It just seemed to be getting easier instead of harder. Thoughts?
.......
I understand the shop manual says use the old bolt and torque to like 200 something ft lbs to seat the pulley.
NO NO NO .... If the new pulley is not seated deep enough at the start the bolt may not have enough of its threads engaged in the crankshaft and you could strip out the threads in the crankshaft. Use an HB install tool they are fairly cheap.
Originally Posted by Josh Brown
....... Then get a new bolt and torque to like 40 lb. There is no way I put 200 lbs on a wrench with a small cheater bar. Like 1.5 ft total length. Right?
I guess it depends on how strong you are. I have a 3 ft torque wrench and it was a really hard two-handed pull to get to (I think it was) 240 foot-lbs. If I was you I would use an angle gauge. You apply an initial torque with a torque wrench then you can use a long breaker bar and an angle gauge to tighten to a specific angle. The latter method is supposed to be more accurate. Be sure to look up the specs !!!
Originally Posted by Josh Brown
....... there were some metal shavings i noticed in the pulley, but thats got to be from the bolt scrubbing on the pulley right? It just seemed to be getting easier instead of harder. Thoughts?
I hope not and who knows from this distance, but it's possible. The fact you could turn the HB bolt 3 turns says to me it was never tightened at all, so yes the assembly was probably turning.
The HB pulley was only 1 belt rib off. I am just re torquing the bolt which was finger tight. I read a lot of other topics that used the old bolt to do the 240lb press fit, then replace with a new bolt. My main question is if i am only 1/8" out from seated on the HB, is it possible to strip the bolt/crank? Can I torque it up to 240ft lb, or I guess the 40lb plus 140 degrees, without worry? I couldnt really find many issues of anyone stripping the bolt/threads, mainly issues with galling and the bolt getting stuck.
You need to find a GM dealer service dept with a good reputation and have front crank seal and new damper installed correctly. If you strip out or somehow mess up the crankshaft be a bad day. GM has very specific procedures on these LS engines for damper install.
Update for those reading a few years down the road. I was able to get a pass through socket set from lowes that fit perfectly. 24mm. I torqued the bolt to an estimated 125 foot lbs(all i could pull with the short extension i had). This was the original bolt just re tightened. The pulley is now in the correct spot. I will update later to see if the bolt backs off again.
Update for those reading a few years down the road. I was able to get a pass through socket set from lowes that fit perfectly. 24mm. I torqued the bolt to an estimated 125 foot lbs(all i could pull with the short extension i had). This was the original bolt just re tightened. The pulley is now in the correct spot. I will update later to see if the bolt backs off again.
Josh, That is nowhere near enough torque to hold it on.
Im going to check it often, if it loosens again Ill go higher. More tools are on the way to get it to the proper torque. I also dont want to overtorque so I left a lot on the table. If I cant get it I bought an aftermarket warranty that kicks in next month.
Josh, What I'd be worried about is that with how loose the bolt was and that the balancer had moved away from the front of the crank "snout" that the balancer was surely spinning on the snout. That connection relies on a very "tight" tolerance fit between the balancer and the snout for friction to keep it from spinning. And a spinning balancer would damage the crank snout in a very short time. You may have a bigger problem than you realize and even a new balancer may not properly mate with a damaged crank snout.
Josh, What I'd be worried about is that with how loose the bolt was and that the balancer had moved away from the front of the crank "snout" that the balancer was surely spinning on the snout. That connection relies on a very "tight" tolerance fit between the balancer and the snout for friction to keep it from spinning. And a spinning balancer would damage the crank snout in a very short time. You may have a bigger problem than you realize and even a new balancer may not properly mate with a damaged crank snout.
I agree completely. Thats why I just have to get by till the warranty kicks in...
So as an update. I torqued the balancer bolt to as much as I could put on it as above. This lasted about 2 weeks when I checked again I got another 1/4 turn on it. So far, 1 month after, it has not walked off again and the bolt seems tight. I agree this is not the right fix, but itll do for now.
2005 Harmonic Balancer Misaligned
