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There's really nothing else that could be making that type of noise man...you've already addressed them.
i feel too that based on the sound of the noise and location, it has to be fuel tank. I just cannot figure out why it's temperature sensitive ( above 65° F no noise, below and the noise is present and, gets a bit louder with the lower temps.
I'm still running experiments:
1.) running as close to empty as possible. thereby eliminating the passenger side fuel tank. maybe.
2.) running as full as possible. eliminating the amount of space for the fuel to move.
3.) running about 5/8 of tank. checking for any difference in noise level.
i've at least been able to somewhat by pass my issue with the fuel level sensor ( sending a P206 CEL ). as long as do not totally fill up the tanks, it'll read fine. i've gotten it as close as into the RED on full but, just before the pump cuts off.
doing that, allows me to bypass running through a cycle of on / off readings for about 15 minutes. then waiting through 3 engine on / off cycles to clear the CEL.
then after breakfast.....
Have you checked your sway bar, … links and bushings? They are known to make strange sounds at lower speeds & in colder temps. Long shot but worth a look.
Have you checked your sway bar, … links and bushings? They are known to make strange sounds at lower speeds & in colder temps. Long shot but worth a look.
I haven't but, i am planning on taking it in this Friday or Saturday for some other issues. I'll have them give the rear end the once over.
I would disconnect it for a while & see what happens. Very easy to do.
at some point I may try that. for now, filling up just short of a full tank, seems to work fine. the only thing i lose is not getting an accurate distant reading ( miles per tank ). for $1k, i can live with that.
Have you replaced the axle nuts and torqued to specs?? Long shot but should be done anyway (not wheel nuts but the big one on the axle itself).
while i haven't checked them myself, the rear wheels have been on and off several times over the years ( through several shops ). unless all involved have miss-installed them incorrectly the same way, I don't see this as being the cause.
not eliminating it though, it just doesn't pass for me.
Again, how is it that the temp is effecting whatever is the cause? i still have a few more cause and effect tests to run. with the summertime temps being more moderate, this isn't an issue.
fall / winter time, it's more apparent. the biggest issue is not knowing the cause. hoping it's something that is being exacerbated with the continued mileage. so far, over the 3 - 4 years, nothing noticeable has changed in drivability.
As rbwinston implied above, having the wheels off and on have nothing to do with the axle nuts, unless you are taking the wheel off with the hub still attached, if that were even possible.
As rbwinston implied above, having the wheels off and on have nothing to do with the axle nuts, unless you are taking the wheel off with the hub still attached, if that were even possible.
until the issue is finally sorted out, any and everything could be the culprit. While I like to think that I have a basic engineering mind, I'm in no way an engineer or mechanic. I have just enough background exposure to be dangerous.
at this point, I take all of the supplied info into consideration. My last major issue had me thinking for sure that the front suspension was the issue (VERY loose steering response, car feeling like it was driving on ice.)
turns out, it had lost a rear drivers side control arm bolt. I was extremely surprised when the dealership told that. I had them looking for a steering issue. Guessing that they put in on a 4 point lift. then seeing the rear tire just hanging there, was big clue.
Luckily, I'm at that point in life ( will be 60yro next month ), that I try to not get bogged down the critical issues in life. Especially in corresponding electronically, Too many places where you will get caught and, people will definitely let you know.
the worst is when your intent gets misconstrued. It's a young persons medium but, I'll play along for as long as I can.
well, I tried a few different scenario's regarding the fuel level (assuming that this may be the cause for the noise):
1.) full tank
2.) almost empty (14 - 15 gallon fill up)
3.) just past half full
the "noise" is present in every situation. So, I'm pretty confident that the fuel / fuel tank(s) are not the issue. taking it into the shop tomorrow. having them check out the rear end and, see if anything jumps out.
this will be the second time this has been looked at. if nothing appears, then I'll just ride it out till something happens. short of a total dismantling of the rear end, not sure what else to address.
as this is a cold temperature related issue, this would seem to be the best time to figure it out.
Hmmm. I just read through this thread again and I'm thinking since it happens on bumps or dips in cold weather that it might be a problem with the shocks. It's possible that since the fluid is thicker when cold, it is making noise as the fluid goes through the valving. If not that, as it was mentioned, look at the bushings.
Hmmm. I just read through this thread again and I'm thinking since it happens on bumps or dips in cold weather that it might be a problem with the shocks. It's possible that since the fluid is thicker when cold, it is making noise as the fluid goes through the valving. If not that, as it was mentioned, look at the bushings.
i've thought about the shocks but, as these are relatively new ( maybe +/ 3 years old, same as the fronts ), unless one or both have gone out, not sure. again, as nothing appears to be causing this noise, everything is in play.
maybe tomorrows shop work will finally show something. as the noise is only present when going over bumps or dips, then immediately is gone, the shocks do make sense. if was from the fuel tank, i would expect the noise to carry on for a bit.
again, as the shocks are on the newer side, I'm hoping that they are not the case. but you never know.
Ok here is my shot in the dark, on the drivers side & the passenger side, in front of each rear wheel well, between the rear quarter panels and the car's interior walls is a bag filled with what looks like expanded foam which is contained in thick plastic. This foam conforms to shape of the space and is used for sound dampening of that cavity between the inner wheel liners and the door jam. On the drivers side it is around the gas filler tube and wheel liner.
Just thinking that in cold weather the plastic gets stiff and makes noise and as the temperature rises it softens up. There is a large cabin vent behind the rear passenger side speaker that is one of the biggest ways for noise (road and otherwise) to enter the cabin. It's a plastic frame with just thin rubber flaps that allows cabin pressure relief when the doors and lid is closed but it is definitely a major way for noise to enter the cabin. When I did my sound deadening project years ago I actually put CDL over it and used a 3/4" socket to cut some holes to allow the pressure out but also covered vent and it made a hell of a difference on cabin road & other noises entering the cabin.
You can only get to this vent by removing the rear passenger side wheel well liner, it snaps out only towards the outside but is located right behind the rear passenger side speaker.
there could be something in these areas making the noise..........
Also, if you are taking it to the shop like you mentioned, have them inspect each of the jacking bolt's rubber and make sure that just maybe the rubber hasn't deteriorated and the noise is coming from where the jacking bolts ride on the control arms............not sure how this would be temp related but worth looking at while it's up in the air.
Ok here is my shot in the dark, on the drivers side & the passenger side, in front of each rear wheel well, between the rear quarter panels and the car's interior walls is a bag filled with what looks like expanded foam which is contained in thick plastic. This foam conforms to shape of the space and is used for sound dampening of that cavity between the inner wheel liners and the door jam. On the drivers side it is around the gas filler tube and wheel liner.
Just thinking that in cold weather the plastic gets stiff and makes noise and as the temperature rises it softens up. There is a large cabin vent behind the rear passenger side speaker that is one of the biggest ways for noise (road and otherwise) to enter the cabin. It's a plastic frame with just thin rubber flaps that allows cabin pressure relief when the doors and lid is closed but it is definitely a major way for noise to enter the cabin. When I did my sound deadening project years ago I actually put CDL over it and used a 3/4" socket to cut some holes to allow the pressure out but also covered vent and it made a hell of a difference on cabin road & other noises entering the cabin.
You can only get to this vent by removing the rear passenger side wheel well liner, it snaps out only towards the outside but is located right behind the rear passenger side speaker.
there could be something in these areas making the noise..........
Just a shot.............. Good luck
based on where the noise is coming from, this thought is promising. I have heard over the years, that there was some type of insulation installed in rear quater panels. initially, my description of the noise, sounding like an ice chest, half full of water and ice, this morning, a more accurate sound ( to me anyways ), would be like when you open a paper grocery bag or even when you crumple one up. I'll definitely look into this one.
thx!!!
thx!
Also, if you are taking it to the shop like you mentioned, have them inspect each of the jacking bolt's rubber and make sure that just maybe the rubber hasn't deteriorated and the noise is coming from where the jacking bolts ride on the control arms............not sure how this would be temp related but worth looking at while it's up in the air.
BMF
you got this one correct! this will be my second repair / replacement of the leveling bolts. the first time, all ( 4 ) had to be replaced. two were broken and the other two had the pad material completely worn off. at the same time, both of the transaxle mounts were broken,
( the rubber portion had split ). this time, just one of the leveling bolts was broken. I will still replace all ( 4 ) anyways.
good call though!
