meadowz06

The car will NOT beat the Z06. It will weight well over 3000 lbs and have LESS power. It is a GT car, not a supercar. Show me ONE article that says the Skyline will have the power to weight ratio of the Z06.

C5 Frank

No doubt stock vs stock the Z06 will be quicker. I hear Nissan is building the car to handle mods easily like the Mustang GT500. So we shouldnt be surprised when a 700hp GTR comes blowing by... my buddy just did a KB blower swap on his GT500, it makes over 800 rwhp on race gas and 725rwhp on pump gas. Still would take my stock Z06, but it is cool.

allegretto

Oh no, check out paragraph 3 line 3. I use it again

Went home last night and looked carefully at the Z under flourescents (very revealing, not flattering) and compared it to my M-B 6.3 AMG, its stablemate and my DD.

Seams are definately wider in the Z but a factor of 2-3 almost everywhere. I'm not sure if this reflects design or tolerances but appears consistant enough to be design. I cannot tell you the purpose.

At the hatch right where the butress takes off from the rear deck the hatch is about 6mm below the deck line on the pass side whereas on the driver's side it is dead level. This appears to be addressable at the hinge if it bugs me, but it really doesn't and I'd have never seen it with out the point of a member here. I don't usually go over seams and check them for level (make that never).

Otherwise the fit appears quite good and consistant. Inside, well...I dont need to tell you that the M-B is of a significantly higher grade of material. But in my Z the fit is actually just as good. Everything is tight, but of course there is a "feel" issue.

Engine? The 6.3 AMG V-8 is about as good an NA piece as you will find in a street vehicle, that is unless you are looking at the 7 L Beast in the Z.

The GS-R is Uglier than either car (sorry, sorry I had to do that).

I don't share your contempt for my Z

But it still has less than 1000 mi on the clock.

allegretto

Yes, and most wont be able to afford it, much less its mods.

On day I'll tell you the whole story about my transformation of an EVO VIII MR into a "full race" version. Short form; I do not believe that a small block with big blowers and AWD is the road to the Grail.

AFVETTE

Is this a real car??? Can one be bought today??? If not thne the answer is NO.

Tom

TeddyFreddy

Mostly any car can be modified to crazy HP if there is enough money.
If you want to talk mods it is very difficult, there are many options and not enough data. That's why it is pretty much worthless to include mods in a comparison.

But GTR/GT500 fans should be reminded that there are twin-turbo setups for Z06 as well

02HREBlue

Have fun getting ANY of your twin turbo Z06 power to the ground, if it makes it there through the drivetrain! I love Lingenfelter products, but their turbo cars dont do well in 0-60 or 1/4 mile times(on street/stock tires) due to severe traction problems. Top speed and track they rock, but for the vette, especially the Blue Devil/SS/or whatever, traction will be a SERIOUS issue. People are very likely to kill themselves(or others) with such a weapon, and good luck getting insurance. Competition is good for everyone in the long run. Everyone here ought to be more worried about what is very likely going to happen---the left wing liberal tree huggers getting into office in 2008 and putting a quick end to our love of powerful cars---this is serious!

C5 Frank

True... how much horse power = how much $$$ you got to spend

AU N EGL

There is a Canadian who I talk to on a eurpean forum 10/10ths.com . He said he talked to Nissan North America and they have no intent of doing any HALO marketing ( Racing ) as the cars demand is higher the production quotas. So racing is not needed to sell this car.

DirtyZ06

The wealth of high-performance cars coming out these days is awesome. Looks are subjective. The GT-R, regardless of looks, will be an awesome car.

allegretto

I really think you should use te word "awesome" more frequently. It would be...awesome!

In fact, I don't hear that word used enough in the common lexicon and would like everyone here to include that adjective (and its adverb; awesomely) as frequently as possible when referring to our vehicles.

Wouldn't THAT be ....

Corvette1221

Ok, the general conclusion after reading all these posts is that the GTR will not beat the Z06 in a stock form. So all the talk that it will is speculation, but then of course the car is not out yet so we are speculating as well.

I am sure it will be an awsome car, but I don't know what it is, ever since I fell in love with the torque of a V8 I can't seem to get excited about the whine of a small displacement engine, even with turbos on it.

And now that the Ls7 can fit in the engine bay of a pretty small car and produces more power without turbos I wonder why you would want one?

Funny I used to be into japanese cars...

That being said I am first and foremost an auto-enthusiast and will enjoy seeing and talking about any car so I am looking forward to seeing this car when it comes out.

But I think that some are right when they say it will be a toned down version and if the democrats get into office there may very well be a hold back on HP. I was just thinking to myself as I was driving the Z06 around yesterday how much control it takes to almost completely stay off the gas to drive it legally. If we have cars with 700hp I think laws are going to come out to begin restricting them.

Most japanese car enthusiasts that I talk with, when I hear through a friend that they have 400-to-600hp at the wheels back down when they see my Z06 and begin to tell me how their engine isn't running well and needs some work? So I think even they don't have the power we could potentially have on the street if these cars start coming from the factory with 600+ hp.

After reading some posts I am beginning to believe that some of the posters are right, maybe we will see some restrictions in HP. Getting 700hp to the ground is almost impossible in any car on the street.

robvuk

Here you bring up a good point. NEW Corvette owners are in general, older men. To use the cliche's, balding, midlife crisis, gold chain wearing, men. Why? Mostly because the car costs more than 2 or 3 times the national average. Clearly there are more older buyers than young kids. Just like Ferraris and Lambos. 20 something's simply can't afford them. (I know there are lots of 20 something owners. This is relatively speaking). It's not until your late 30's and 40's that people hit their stride in their financial lives. Having said that, the C5 is the first world class Corvette. It is just now becoming old enough and cheap enough that young people can afford them. The perception is changing and although it is taking some time, it is happening. An $80k Nissan will have the same problem. It will not be embraced by young people until they are old and used and cheap. It might be admired by them but not owned by them. Initially the buyers will be well to do older men.(40+). If it does not appeal to this age group, they will be in trouble right out of the gate.

As witnessed by all here, it takes a long time to change perception. (Corvette quality and GM quality in general.) GM recalled approximately 7000 vehicles last year. (mostly C6's with roof issues). Toyota recalled more cars than they built last year. Japanese and German car dealerships are LOADED with cars in their service departments. They aren't like the Maytag guy taking naps. Why do people think they don't need repairs? Perception. GM is making great strides in quality. It will just take time for PERCEPTION to catch up.

If anyone is interested, I have a 12 page list of global awards given to GM for their entire product line. They are competing with German and Japanese imports very well and on every level.

EVILNESS

Funny i get the same thing thats when i go back to the times when i swore on imports and would spend Big money on turbo upgrades fuel systems only to get 380rwhp on Race gas and get stomped by a stock
c5 z06 because it weight lighter and was geared better. My friend put a APS turbo kit on his G35 claimed he made 444hp on pump gas raced me in my FRC making 358hp and 360 tq with Headers and a vararam and i pounded him from a roll by 3 cars it was then i know i made the right choice....

R.

p.s. nissan skyline will be a nice car im wonderig if it will go 198mph???

AU N EGL

GM quality is UP, and better then many many other makes.

We have 3 chevy's now and looking to buy at least one more truck and may be another non- corvette, Caddy CTSv for comfort and ease of my mother-in-law to get in and out of. Plus my Wife could track that one too.

Does the CTSv come with Paddle shifters ??????

Corvette1221

Evilness,

My friend, I say that because I feel you and I came down the same road. We were both in love with japanese cars at one point and then somehow stumbled upon the great car that the Corvette is.

I used to speak badly of the Corvette and saw american cars owned by old geezers that were from an era of old muscle cars that were heavy and went fast in a straight line. There Big V8's were heavy, boring, gas guzzling pieces of $##$. The suspension of these cars was terrible to say the least, and while they got me off the line when we got to turns, which was more important to me, I left them in a small 4 cylinder japanese car.

I liked the japanese cars because there were small, nimble, economical and highly tuned to get the HP out of them that they did. I saw them as efficiently designed technological wonders.

The corvette, now having owned one since 2003 when I bought my first C5 has changed my perception of the American V8, or I should say more specifically of the LS1 motor that was in the Corvette.

The day I bought it I felt I was going to have to work on it often and put a quart of oil in it frequently just like my dad's chevy. Boy was I wrong. What a solid motor that proved to be. Ironically the difference in weight between it and a 4 cylinder steel block japanese motor was very close. Furthermore, because it had so much torque that it could idle down the freeway, it go the same, or in some cases better gas mileage. My C5 Corvette had 56k miles on the clock when I sold it and it never leaked any fluids and the engine was spotless. It was solid engineering and reliable.

Once I got used to that torque that a V8 in a Corvette generated I could never look at a turbo again. Furthermore, if I wanted more power I could always slap on a 50 state legal supercharger and easily be toying with 500rwhp.

No, where the japanese tuners need to exagerate their HP numbers I have noticed that the Corvette enthusiasts usually don't have to brag. In fact even the average numbers of power that a corvette produces seem high to a japanese car enthusiast because they are probably pushing 24 pounds of boost to get the same result.

Now while this may seem great to get that kind of power out of a small displacement engine, I am not convinced that a motor with 24 pounds of boost will go 100k miles even with forged internals. While they would lead you to believe this every person I have talked to that has that kind of power is on an engine they just rebuilt or just replaced? So what kind of impression am I supposed to get about the reliability of a 2 liter engine producing 400hp?

I have heard anecdotal stories about people having 600hp and driving it with no problems, but I have yet to meet someone that has done it.

On the other hand, 6.5 pounds of boost has been shown to produce, with a tune 500 rwhp in a C5 corvette. This is much less boost and much easier on an engine so I am more likely to believe that these engines will last longer while weighing the same as a 4 cylinder and producing more hp with 6.5 pounds of boost.

My friend quoted me as being a numbers guy?? I guess he is right about that. But I am also a performance guy in terms of the potential that an engine can produce and its efficiency.

Lets see:

25mph highway
17 city
520hp at the crank without turbo lag.
Dry sump oil system, big brakes, oil cooler from factory.
Hand built engine with cnc carved heads and titanium connecting rods with a forged crankshaft.
weighs about the same as a 6 cylinder japanese motor
Can be put in the body of a 240sx Nissan (small car)
100,000 warranty from the factory
50 state legal supercharger, produces almost 600rwhp
Corvette Racing team technology in the car that has won 5/7 races at the 24 hours of lemans, including 4 races with both cars coming in first and second.
Proven racetrack suspension
Proven 10.85 second quarter mile time on stock Z06 except for tires
Guy claimed it did over 206mph on autobahn
Cost? 70k
Magazines reporting it beat a Porsche GT3 when tested around a track on stock run flats.
ring time of 7:42 seconds (amazing to be faster then a pagani Zonda)
Keeps its value as it is a classic car
And with all that performance it can be used as a daily driver.
Video after video of the japanese trying to show that their car is better as compared to the Z06, hence the Z06 setting the benchmark for them to pass.
Seeing only highly modified, stripped, Japanese cars that aren't even confortable to drive or street legal be the only ones to keep up with the car on the track and even then they consider it bragging rights that a japanese car can keep up with a Z06.
Which makes me think of one thing, who are the numbers guys if they aren't? Why have a car that is uncomfortable to drive, has no AC, no climate control so you can keep up with a Z06? Probably because they care about numbers and are willing to strip everything out of the car that makes it comfortable to just say they can keep up with a Z06 on the track. And of course the guys who read the magazines don't see the practicality you get with the corvette. That the same guy who picked up milk at the grocery store just drove onto the track and with no modifications there is this guy behind him in a totally purposefully built japanese car barely keeping up with him? Why don't they see this? Now that the japanese are coming out with a 70k car the car enthusiasts will no doubt be watching to see if they can beat the Z06. I think that their blind faith in the Technology and quality that they perceive in the Japanese cars is causing some to have more faith then they realize when competing at this level.

Now tell me why I would buy a GTR? Oh yes, to take my family around. But a real performance car is a Corvette. Racing isn't for everyone, and I am sure people will say the GTR is a different car, if it were not for the fact that so many people believe it will compete with the corvette.

We'll see. So that is why I love the Corvette, but for other cars to haul people around in, I must admit I think the Japanese have it.

vetteship

Excellent post. Now can you please make some calls and get the dreaded shifter rattle fix available at our local friendly Chevy dealer

02HREBlue

Top speed is totally irrelevant in any real world, or most any track racing, for that matter. Even most German hotrods have speed limiters on them for a reason. 99.9% of Corvette owners will NEVER see 198MPH or 170 for that matter. Top speed claims are otherwise phallus comparisons. If you get caught going that fast its OVER, and if you have a flat tire or major mechanical dysfunction you are flat out DEAD.

Its more about acceleration and getting the power to the ground, and more powerful cars, especially even hotter Vettes, will have their hands full in such regards-no questions about it. GM traction controls to date, in comparison to those on BMW and Mercedes(AMG) are plain and simply performance killing, primarily life -saving pieces of junk. Hopefully something will change.

I love C6Z06's but they are not the be-all end-all in performance. They have their flaws as do any other car. I am going to try the new GTR because I believe it will be an awesome(and not so common) piece. Maybe I will be wrong, but if I don't like it, I can EASILY sell it and make a tidy profit and pay for a new Z06 to have an appointment with Katech or Lingenfelter and KNOW the truth.

BLU-BY-U

WTF?

bwahahahahahahahaha

seriously, the c6z hooks up AMAZINGLY well, even on crappy runflats with a good driver. If you'd like me to post a video or two of this in action, I'd be happy to. It will stomp a mudhole in this nissan 0-120

CPhelps

The car is rumored to have ~55hp less than a stock Z06, and considering it is somewhat based on a G35/350 Z which weighs more than a Z06 already, adding in the AWD makes it almost sure to weigh several hundred pounds more. In all out performance, stock for stock, the Z06 should be the clear winner, with equal drivers, etc. The AWD will let the GTR launch easier/faster, so in short "stop light to stop light" races, it may have a nice edge. In a race with wet/moist roads, again the AWD will have a nice advantage, but personally if your racing a C6 Z06 in wet conditions I might question your sanity anyway.

That said, I'm sure the GTR will be a great all around car with impressive performance figures. It will no doubt be easily modded since it is factory FI, but as was said, the Z06 can be modded also, and with ~40-50rwhp not being uncommon with basic bolt ons and a tune, its not as if the LS7 responds badly to mods either. As was said before, once mods come into the equation, wallet size is really the determining factor.

For the street, blasting up to 150+ may not matter, but many Z06 owners track their cars, and on some of the high speed "power tracks" its not uncommon to see people posting speeds of 150+ at the end of some straights.

IMO, the GTR has some mystique about it, just as other Skylines do, since they were never imported into the United States in large numbers. The bottom line is that any performance comparisons are just speculation until the real GTR is released, but if the rumored specifications are close then it wont have the power to weight ratio required to best the Z06 in a straight line, and the extra pounds wont exactly be beneficial on a road course either.

Another thing about N'ring times thrown around is that they are very dependent on driver experience and traffic when it was tested. Not to mention that at least from what I have seen (and there could be many that I haven't seen), most of the very fast Skyline times are actually some limited edition Nismo Z-tune that costs a lot more and isn't very close to the stock normal production car. That IMO is the equivalent of quoting a LPE or similar time for the Z06.

Either way I think most people can agree the GTR will be a great offering, and be a cool all around car to own. IMO, those who are expecting it to have higher stock performance than a stock C6 Z06 are probably fooling themselves, but if Nissan decides to bump up the power or manages to stay in the low 3000 lb range than that could certainly change.

The cars seem to just appeal to a slightly different type of buyer, and I think with a nice interior and AWD, the GTR would be more suited to a fast/cool GT car than an all out sports car like the Z06 is, JMHO.