[Z06] H/C vs FI
01-29-2008, 06:49 PM
#22
Listen to this guy. FI is the way to go for sure. My car drives just like stock untill you hit the gas and then it will blow you away. I have the vortech kit, and have no complaints whatsoever. 580rwhp on 5-6 PSI. Everything else is completely stock and running perfect.
01-29-2008, 07:07 PM
#23
8th Gear
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SC or H/C
I am going through the same thought process. I love my car at sea level but it seems a little blah at 6500ft by comparison. I drive daily spring, summer and as deep into fall as possible from 6500ft over the mountain 8600ft to work at 4600ft. I do feel a big difference from lack of air. How does the SC deal with altitude changes?
01-29-2008, 07:10 PM
#24
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People will inevitably support the modification that they did, and there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, that is a good thing since everyone should support the mofications they do.
They way I look is to do what the car is best set up to do. This motor was designed around solely for the purpose of being naturally asperated. Big displacement for big power. A supercharger is not a bad route to go for a big increase, but you're pushing the limits of the motor. Running the stock internals will only allow 5-6 PSI fairly safely for as it stands right now an undetermined amount of miles. 9 PSI or higher is pushing the limits of what the stock motor can handle.
What some people don't understand about forced induction is that to do it right, it requires much more supporting modifications to make it work. Things such as supplying adequate fuel (injectors, fuel pump, and tuning), good flowing air (induction and exhaust), and good cooling (intercooler that can take enough heat away in relation to the boost you are running). Easy gain in power, but many supporting modifications for a shorter life. The pistons, and compression was not set up for forced induction on this motor. The added stress even with minimal boost will no doubt shorten the life of a motor set up as a high compression naturally asperated motor.
This is why even if the results of a head and cam package may not produce as much HP as a supercharger, I feel it is better, and will last longer then supercharging. Now, if the stock internals are rebuilt with forged pistons, oil squirters, lower compression, more supporting mods then it's a different story. Although even changing all those things there is still the subject of thin walls.... that motor would always scare me... you would be better off starting with a LS9 block if you wanted to do it right and expect any logevity out of your motor.
For me, it's just going to be cam, intake, headers, and possibly exhaust. Hopefully about 550 RWHP and a motor that will still last 100K miles plus.
Thanks for reading
They way I look is to do what the car is best set up to do. This motor was designed around solely for the purpose of being naturally asperated. Big displacement for big power. A supercharger is not a bad route to go for a big increase, but you're pushing the limits of the motor. Running the stock internals will only allow 5-6 PSI fairly safely for as it stands right now an undetermined amount of miles. 9 PSI or higher is pushing the limits of what the stock motor can handle.
What some people don't understand about forced induction is that to do it right, it requires much more supporting modifications to make it work. Things such as supplying adequate fuel (injectors, fuel pump, and tuning), good flowing air (induction and exhaust), and good cooling (intercooler that can take enough heat away in relation to the boost you are running). Easy gain in power, but many supporting modifications for a shorter life. The pistons, and compression was not set up for forced induction on this motor. The added stress even with minimal boost will no doubt shorten the life of a motor set up as a high compression naturally asperated motor.
This is why even if the results of a head and cam package may not produce as much HP as a supercharger, I feel it is better, and will last longer then supercharging. Now, if the stock internals are rebuilt with forged pistons, oil squirters, lower compression, more supporting mods then it's a different story. Although even changing all those things there is still the subject of thin walls.... that motor would always scare me... you would be better off starting with a LS9 block if you wanted to do it right and expect any logevity out of your motor.
For me, it's just going to be cam, intake, headers, and possibly exhaust. Hopefully about 550 RWHP and a motor that will still last 100K miles plus.
Thanks for reading
01-29-2008, 07:48 PM
#25
Advanced
Thread Starter
People will inevitably support the modification that they did, and there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, that is a good thing since everyone should support the mofications they do.
They way I look is to do what the car is best set up to do. This motor was designed around solely for the purpose of being naturally asperated. Big displacement for big power. A supercharger is not a bad route to go for a big increase, but you're pushing the limits of the motor. Running the stock internals will only allow 5-6 PSI fairly safely for as it stands right now an undetermined amount of miles. 9 PSI or higher is pushing the limits of what the stock motor can handle.
What some people don't understand about forced induction is that to do it right, it requires much more supporting modifications to make it work. Things such as supplying adequate fuel (injectors, fuel pump, and tuning), good flowing air (induction and exhaust), and good cooling (intercooler that can take enough heat away in relation to the boost you are running). Easy gain in power, but many supporting modifications for a shorter life. The pistons, and compression was not set up for forced induction on this motor. The added stress even with minimal boost will no doubt shorten the life of a motor set up as a high compression naturally asperated motor.
This is why even if the results of a head and cam package may not produce as much HP as a supercharger, I feel it is better, and will last longer then supercharging. Now, if the stock internals are rebuilt with forged pistons, oil squirters, lower compression, more supporting mods then it's a different story. Although even changing all those things there is still the subject of thin walls.... that motor would always scare me... you would be better off starting with a LS9 block if you wanted to do it right and expect any logevity out of your motor.
For me, it's just going to be cam, intake, headers, and possibly exhaust. Hopefully about 550 RWHP and a motor that will still last 100K miles plus.
Thanks for reading
They way I look is to do what the car is best set up to do. This motor was designed around solely for the purpose of being naturally asperated. Big displacement for big power. A supercharger is not a bad route to go for a big increase, but you're pushing the limits of the motor. Running the stock internals will only allow 5-6 PSI fairly safely for as it stands right now an undetermined amount of miles. 9 PSI or higher is pushing the limits of what the stock motor can handle.
What some people don't understand about forced induction is that to do it right, it requires much more supporting modifications to make it work. Things such as supplying adequate fuel (injectors, fuel pump, and tuning), good flowing air (induction and exhaust), and good cooling (intercooler that can take enough heat away in relation to the boost you are running). Easy gain in power, but many supporting modifications for a shorter life. The pistons, and compression was not set up for forced induction on this motor. The added stress even with minimal boost will no doubt shorten the life of a motor set up as a high compression naturally asperated motor.
This is why even if the results of a head and cam package may not produce as much HP as a supercharger, I feel it is better, and will last longer then supercharging. Now, if the stock internals are rebuilt with forged pistons, oil squirters, lower compression, more supporting mods then it's a different story. Although even changing all those things there is still the subject of thin walls.... that motor would always scare me... you would be better off starting with a LS9 block if you wanted to do it right and expect any logevity out of your motor.
For me, it's just going to be cam, intake, headers, and possibly exhaust. Hopefully about 550 RWHP and a motor that will still last 100K miles plus.
Thanks for reading
01-29-2008, 08:04 PM
#26
Racer
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01-29-2008, 08:13 PM
#27
Melting Slicks
You have to decide what you're doing w/ the car. Why don't you try a road course track day? U might get hooked like i did! If u decide that u love road course driving then H/C is way to go. I had SC on my C5, pulleys threw the belt and I got stuck at the track! Car got really hot on track (even w/ be-cool radiator, oil cooler, tranny cooler) after a few 30 min sessions.
01-29-2008, 10:28 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
Great posts guys! I think the absolute bottom line to N/A vs S/C is what are you going to use the car for?
If you road race, FI is NOT the way to go...period end of story.
If your like me and all you do is spirited driving on back roads with the occasional run to the dragstrip, FI is perfect. The drivability is completely stock, and the power is absolutely insane. I happen to love the sound and look of the supercharger along with the "cool factor" of saying I have a supercharged Z06
As far as the comments on needing extra components to support the supercharger i disagree in regards to my vortech kit. It comes with everything you need. S/C, intercooler, tune, etc. No issues at all.
If you road race, FI is NOT the way to go...period end of story.
If your like me and all you do is spirited driving on back roads with the occasional run to the dragstrip, FI is perfect. The drivability is completely stock, and the power is absolutely insane. I happen to love the sound and look of the supercharger along with the "cool factor" of saying I have a supercharged Z06
As far as the comments on needing extra components to support the supercharger i disagree in regards to my vortech kit. It comes with everything you need. S/C, intercooler, tune, etc. No issues at all.
01-29-2008, 10:55 PM
#29
Melting Slicks
Great posts guys! I think the absolute bottom line to N/A vs S/C is what are you going to use the car for?
If you road race, FI is NOT the way to go...period end of story.
If your like me and all you do is spirited driving on back roads with the occasional run to the dragstrip, FI is perfect. The drivability is completely stock, and the power is absolutely insane. I happen to love the sound and look of the supercharger along with the "cool factor" of saying I have a supercharged Z06
As far as the comments on needing extra components to support the supercharger i disagree in regards to my vortech kit. It comes with everything you need. S/C, intercooler, tune, etc. No issues at all.
If you road race, FI is NOT the way to go...period end of story.
If your like me and all you do is spirited driving on back roads with the occasional run to the dragstrip, FI is perfect. The drivability is completely stock, and the power is absolutely insane. I happen to love the sound and look of the supercharger along with the "cool factor" of saying I have a supercharged Z06
As far as the comments on needing extra components to support the supercharger i disagree in regards to my vortech kit. It comes with everything you need. S/C, intercooler, tune, etc. No issues at all.
If you live in a warm climate and find yourself in traffic w/ a/c on your car will not cool properly and will require a larger radiator
01-30-2008, 04:52 AM
#31
I don't know what happened to your engine exactly, and that freaks me out, and is one of the main reasons I am looking into forging the internals, but I think im quite lucky, because my engine sees the rev limited AT LEAST 30 times a day, at least I said, and its already done 50,000KMs
01-30-2008, 07:34 AM
#32
Instructor
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Really its all about $$$$ If you cant afford a new motor then dont supercharge it. Sure it might not break but are you willing to gamble with your great ride?
A 7k blower install could end up costing triple the price after the rebuild.
Head and cams is much safer!
A 7k blower install could end up costing triple the price after the rebuild.
Head and cams is much safer!
01-30-2008, 09:22 AM
#33
Burning Brakes
No trouble yet but Ive only seen about 75* so far...time will tell this summer. If that is the case though another 600 bucks for a dewit radiator is still far worth the price of admission for the supercharger
01-30-2008, 09:43 AM
#34
Le Mans Master
Do you really want to chance it? I also speak from experience, I prefer the term "will" be ok, instead of "should" be ok, just trying to help you out , believe me, you dont want to go with the hassle of blowing your motor, be safe.
01-30-2008, 01:32 PM
#35
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01-30-2008, 03:36 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
Smog if it applies don't forget.
Out here in CA or any state with tight smog laws this is sadly a one sided arguement. You can't make decent power H/C without putting non smog legal parts on the car, either cam, headers, intake or CAI, or even the tune. To my knowledge you can't find a combo of those parts that are all CARB EO'ed and still make 600rwhp. An FI kit from STS or ATI or one of the roots types all have at least one CARB legal kit. So if you want to actually register your car here and drive it on the street at that power level you can only go FI.
The only exception to this would be a certified engine 'package' installed by one of the big tuners. I hear they have to install them as part of the compliance to make sure it's all done legally. Don't know about that for sure though. I do know you would be looking at $25k+ easy for a H/C type motor then, not 7k. I know a lot of people have tons of money and get the 6 year free ride exemption and figure none of this applies to them but that time can go fast and if you want to sell or a number of other things it can be a big hassle since you have to smog the car. I took a weekend once every two years and just pulled my Procharger off, smogged it, and then put it back on. Maybe ten hours work total every two years. Easy to do.
The only exception to this would be a certified engine 'package' installed by one of the big tuners. I hear they have to install them as part of the compliance to make sure it's all done legally. Don't know about that for sure though. I do know you would be looking at $25k+ easy for a H/C type motor then, not 7k. I know a lot of people have tons of money and get the 6 year free ride exemption and figure none of this applies to them but that time can go fast and if you want to sell or a number of other things it can be a big hassle since you have to smog the car. I took a weekend once every two years and just pulled my Procharger off, smogged it, and then put it back on. Maybe ten hours work total every two years. Easy to do.
01-30-2008, 06:39 PM
#37
Safety Car
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Out here in CA or any state with tight smog laws this is sadly a one sided arguement. You can't make decent power H/C without putting non smog legal parts on the car, either cam, headers, intake or CAI, or even the tune. To my knowledge you can't find a combo of those parts that are all CARB EO'ed and still make 600rwhp. An FI kit from STS or ATI or one of the roots types all have at least one CARB legal kit. So if you want to actually register your car here and drive it on the street at that power level you can only go FI.
The only exception to this would be a certified engine 'package' installed by one of the big tuners. I hear they have to install them as part of the compliance to make sure it's all done legally. Don't know about that for sure though. I do know you would be looking at $25k+ easy for a H/C type motor then, not 7k. I know a lot of people have tons of money and get the 6 year free ride exemption and figure none of this applies to them but that time can go fast and if you want to sell or a number of other things it can be a big hassle since you have to smog the car. I took a weekend once every two years and just pulled my Procharger off, smogged it, and then put it back on. Maybe ten hours work total every two years. Easy to do.
The only exception to this would be a certified engine 'package' installed by one of the big tuners. I hear they have to install them as part of the compliance to make sure it's all done legally. Don't know about that for sure though. I do know you would be looking at $25k+ easy for a H/C type motor then, not 7k. I know a lot of people have tons of money and get the 6 year free ride exemption and figure none of this applies to them but that time can go fast and if you want to sell or a number of other things it can be a big hassle since you have to smog the car. I took a weekend once every two years and just pulled my Procharger off, smogged it, and then put it back on. Maybe ten hours work total every two years. Easy to do.
The 6 year rule for California just buys time. Luckily, I have an office in 2 other states, so problem solved. My next California project car will have Katech's 500 cube that will soon be CARB legal. Jason, you should call it the "Smog Attack"
01-30-2008, 07:15 PM
#40
Le Mans Master
again, the MAX you could ever do with head/cam is 600RWHP, I started with a blower at low boost (5PSI), and am now working on bumping the boost pressure to 12-14.
The blower package IS heavier but you can EASILY compensate for that added weight by more power. Also its much more expensive.
The blower package IS heavier but you can EASILY compensate for that added weight by more power. Also its much more expensive.