[Z06] tuning vs warranty
07-29-2008, 09:58 PM
#41
Melting Slicks
i have been reading these posts about tuning and warranty etc since i got on this forum 2 years ago.
personally i dont want to spend my $$ to fix any powertrain part that GM may rightly deny me coverage on due to a tune.
i have no question that a good tune will give me maybe another 40RWHP.
so what? how many of us are getting all we can from the car as it sits bone stock. Ideally i would have Ron Fellows get in my car and see what kind of times he can do. if i ever got to within a second of his time then i would feel the way to go faster is spend $$ on mods.
there are lots of things that the c6Z06 needs to change it from a great track day car to an excellent track day car.
1. improved brakes ...... pick your area, pads, rotors, lines, cooling, calipers etc, etc
2. improved seat....... the split bench that comes in these cars is a joke
3. improved rubber....... arguable..... i think the GY are great for a bone stock car....... about to try the Bridgestones soon though.
all the above should result in better lap times without voiding the warranty. then the drivers need to get better........ when we turn 10 laps in a row within 0.1 seconds of another we are doing something!!
just my $.02 but the car is not short of snot for 95% of drivers.
personally i dont want to spend my $$ to fix any powertrain part that GM may rightly deny me coverage on due to a tune.
i have no question that a good tune will give me maybe another 40RWHP.
so what? how many of us are getting all we can from the car as it sits bone stock. Ideally i would have Ron Fellows get in my car and see what kind of times he can do. if i ever got to within a second of his time then i would feel the way to go faster is spend $$ on mods.
there are lots of things that the c6Z06 needs to change it from a great track day car to an excellent track day car.
1. improved brakes ...... pick your area, pads, rotors, lines, cooling, calipers etc, etc
2. improved seat....... the split bench that comes in these cars is a joke
3. improved rubber....... arguable..... i think the GY are great for a bone stock car....... about to try the Bridgestones soon though.
all the above should result in better lap times without voiding the warranty. then the drivers need to get better........ when we turn 10 laps in a row within 0.1 seconds of another we are doing something!!
just my $.02 but the car is not short of snot for 95% of drivers.
07-29-2008, 10:28 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
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07-29-2008, 11:59 PM
#43
Burning Brakes
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07-30-2008, 12:08 AM
#44
Burning Brakes
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Case in point, I tuned my friend's '08 Z06 with a Halltech Killer Bee. It was much richer with the Halltech and stock tune (mostly in the 11s on the AFR, but in the 10s from 4.75k on up). This immediately allowed me to see that the stock MAF transfer values were NOT going to cut it (I knew this before I even started). Basically, the MAF curve will be off by approx. 10% (richer) with the Halltech on the stock tune. A few dyno runs and corrections later and I had his MAF transfer dialed in properly for the new MAF housing, and Commanded fueling was now Actual.
My suggestion, and I've repeated this multiple times before, if all you plan on doing to your Z06 is an intake, and not a tune, then SKIP IT! It's a losing situation. Keep the stock intake, and go get a custom dyno tune from an experience professional. So is having an aftermarket intake with a custom tune worth it, if that is all you plan on doing? IMO, no! Yes, I said "no"! Can it hurt? As long as the tune is properly dialed in for that particular intake, then no, an aftermarket intake will not hurt. Will an aftermarket intake with a tune outperform the stock intake with a tune? Very little to none! Am I being biased towards the stock intake (WTF? LOL!)? Absolutely not (it's the stock intake, of all things). Am I attempting to put aftermarket intake manufacturers out of business? No! Did GM actually get the stock intake right? Yes! Is an aftermarket intake ever worth it? Yes! With an aftermarket cam I would definitely recommend such. As we know, reality and facts are stubborn things sometimes.
I'll most likely summarize everything, complete with dynographs and datalogs, and put it on a thread here within the new day or few, so that everyone can see the reality.
Last edited by RWTD; 07-30-2008 at 02:37 AM.
07-30-2008, 12:27 AM
#45
Le Mans Master
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Bringing this one up a bit since I've spent the last few months working on this. ANY change to ANY area of the calibration will result in a change in corresponding segment CVN. There is a CVN for each segment of the cal including the OS. The CVN is not hardcoded its calculated everytime its requested, so its not something that can be changed and then rewritten and if you try to mess with it it will fail CRC AND CVN checks (unless of course you read the link below 
)
So short version is if you have a tune yes the CVN is different... If you want to keep your tune and be 100% undetectable you might want to read this
http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4684
EDIT to confirm, YES they do go back to stock when a stock calibration is loaded.
)So short version is if you have a tune yes the CVN is different... If you want to keep your tune and be 100% undetectable you might want to read this
http://www.g8board.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4684
EDIT to confirm, YES they do go back to stock when a stock calibration is loaded.
There is NO WAY a dealer with their standard scan tool which is the venerable TECH2 will see anything that has been modified, that is unless you use a special NON GM cal from HPT or EFI Live. They are NOT using their new MDI interface for anything other than programming PCMs at this time, in time it will replace the TECH2 but not for at least 2 years. Also if GM really wanted to see what you done to your PCM, in case of a catastrophic failure, all they need to do is to send your PCM back to GM PT Engineering. A friend of mine is a very close friend of the president of GMs powertrain division, he was qupted as saying that in some cases because of possible warranty fraud this can and will happen.
I hope that after seeing this answer and the attachements that this will put peoples mind at ease. I DO NOT ADVOCATE warranty fraud in any way, this is just to clear the air, and or this thread......
Last edited by tjwong; 07-30-2008 at 12:36 AM.
07-30-2008, 07:05 AM
#46
Racer
Well I guess member status doesnt really matter much since what you posted has nothing to do with CVN's The pictures you took show Calibration ID's or simply part numbers, which you are correct almost never change. Now if you go into "module ID" I believe it is (I'll check one of my Tech 2's later to confirm) it will show the part numbers AND corresponding CVN's calculated at the time they are requested as shown HERE on Calid. Again what you showed is part numbers NOT CVN's I've posted ACTUAL CVN's for an 08 Z06
The pictures you took show Calibration ID's or simply part numbers, which you are correct almost never change. Now if you go into "module ID" I believe it is (I'll check one of my Tech 2's later to confirm) it will show the part numbers AND corresponding CVN's calculated at the time they are requested as shown HERE on Calid. Again what you showed is part numbers NOT CVN's I've posted ACTUAL CVN's for an 08 Z06Last edited by GTPprix; 07-30-2008 at 07:10 AM.
07-30-2008, 07:08 AM
#47
Racer
BTW if you want to see YOUR CVN's go to calid.gm.com type in your vin and hit complete history. It will show all the updates/part #'s and CVN's for your car which the version you are using doesnt show. Then you'll see what I'm talking about, they are different if the file even has ONE change; I'll bet a new Z06 at MSRP on it 
Last edited by GTPprix; 07-30-2008 at 07:22 AM.
07-30-2008, 02:24 PM
#48
Racer
Yup choose Module Identification or ID under the ECM Menu for most vehicles that will show you both the Calid that you posted and the CVN. You compare those to Calid.gm.com
Heres the screen you are looking for:
Thats a Tuned G8 E38 ECM (Same as most C6 Vettes) with the stock CVN's.
Heres the screen you are looking for:
Thats a Tuned G8 E38 ECM (Same as most C6 Vettes) with the stock CVN's.
07-30-2008, 03:55 PM
#50
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Figured i'm chime back in. I installed the predator tune with the K&N intake.I dont care what anyone thinks, but this Z06 runs much better then before. It definately is better 1-3 and when you get into the higher rpm's it feels stronger. This is not in my head either.
These two little mods really woke up the car.Saving some money this winter and may send it to katech for there cam package.
Never should of started this modding crap, might need another 12 step program for this s---.
These two little mods really woke up the car.Saving some money this winter and may send it to katech for there cam package.
Never should of started this modding crap, might need another 12 step program for this s---.
07-30-2008, 04:23 PM
#51
Team Owner
07-30-2008, 04:57 PM
#52
Le Mans Master
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Yup choose Module Identification or ID under the ECM Menu for most vehicles that will show you both the Calid that you posted and the CVN. You compare those to Calid.gm.com
Heres the screen you are looking for:
Thats a Tuned G8 E38 ECM (Same as most C6 Vettes) with the stock CVN's.
Heres the screen you are looking for:
Thats a Tuned G8 E38 ECM (Same as most C6 Vettes) with the stock CVN's.
GM Vehicle Calibration Information
VIN: 1G1YY26E975138040
Controller: ECM Engine Control Module
Calibration History for: Main Operating System
Part Number CVN Bulletin # Description
12614676 00005739 - New software to correct battery run down condition.
12611833 00007FA5 - New software to correct a possible no start condition on first attempt after a battery disconnect.
12608602 0000C139 - Main Operating System
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Calibration History for: System
Part Number CVN Bulletin # Description
12611848 0000AA56 - New calibration to correct a possible no start condition on first attempt after a battery disconnect.
12600970 000084F8 - System
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Calibration History for: Fuel system
Part Number CVN Bulletin # Description
12624799 00009525 - New calibration with diagnostic enhancements for DTCs P2066 and P2636.
12600965 000015B8 - Fuel System
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Calibration History for: Speedometer
Part Number CVN Bulletin # Description
12600974 0000FE4B - Speedometer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Calibration History for: Engine diagnostic
Part Number CVN Bulletin # Description
12616119 0000B118 - New calibration with diagnostic enhancements for DTC P0449.
12614680 0000E9C0 - New calibration to reduce potential for setting DTC P0712.
12612215 0000AA92 - New calibration to ensure proper speed sensor diagnostics.
12611842 0000A230 - New calibration to correct a possible no start condition on first attempt after a battery disconnect.
12611527 0000DFB7 - New calibration with diagnostic enhancements for DTC P0171.
12600962 0000B105 - Engine diagnostic
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Calibration History for: Engine Operation
Part Number CVN Bulletin # Description
12621446 00003D39 - New calibration with diagnostic enhancements for DTCs P0171, and P0174.
12614678 00004797 - New calibration to address customer complaint of rough idle.
12600950 0000BA8B - Engine Operation
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Calibration History for: Slave Operating System
Part Number CVN Bulletin # Description
12605899 0000C846 - Slave Operating System
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Calibration History for: Engine
Part Number CVN Bulletin # Description
12600953 000064A5 - Engine
07-30-2008, 05:11 PM
#53
Racer
There ya go! Now just match them up and go! Sneaky little devils arent they? 
The reason they change is because its VERY similar to a computer CRC so if you change ANY value in the file the CRC will change or in this case the CVN.
The reason they change is because its VERY similar to a computer CRC so if you change ANY value in the file the CRC will change or in this case the CVN.
Last edited by GTPprix; 07-30-2008 at 05:17 PM.
07-31-2008, 05:26 PM
#55
Le Mans Master
Imho, if you're going up on horsepower & torque, go all the way up & don't fool around with a slight half hearted attempt with a tune & intake. If you're going off the engine/drivetrain warranty with a tune(which you are regardless of what the other well intentioned fellow enthusiasts proclaim on here), do it right & add enough mods(head,cam,headers or supercharger etc) to get a real bang out of it. Otherwise stay stock & enjoy driving a really fast great handling LIGHT world class sports car second to none.
07-31-2008, 05:33 PM
#56
Figured i'm chime back in. I installed the predator tune with the K&N intake.I dont care what anyone thinks, but this Z06 runs much better then before. It definately is better 1-3 and when you get into the higher rpm's it feels stronger. This is not in my head either.
These two little mods really woke up the car.
These two little mods really woke up the car.
07-31-2008, 05:56 PM
#57
Safety Car
[QUOTE=musclecar6;1566533680]If you're going off the engine/drivetrain warranty with a tune(which you are regardless of what the other well intentioned fellow enthusiasts proclaim on here), QUOTE]
Again, not true. You may, repeat may, be denied power train warranty coverage for a particular failure caused by the tune. GM must still prove causation between the tune and the failure. Read your Warranty and you will see GM's duty to prove a modification caused a particular problem before warranty coverage may be denied. It is all done on a case by case basis, no blanket voiding of warranties is permitted.
Again, not true. You may, repeat may, be denied power train warranty coverage for a particular failure caused by the tune. GM must still prove causation between the tune and the failure. Read your Warranty and you will see GM's duty to prove a modification caused a particular problem before warranty coverage may be denied. It is all done on a case by case basis, no blanket voiding of warranties is permitted.
07-31-2008, 08:34 PM
#58
The thing to concern yourself with here is that if your Z06 is stock, with just an aftermarket intake, and still on the stock tune, your stock intake will generally OUTPERFORM the aftermarket intake! Yes, I'm being serious here. Aftermarket intakes with aftermarket MAF housings will throw the MAF curve off, therefore throwing off all the VE calculations (this affects all sorts of various things, from fueling, spark, idle, etc.).
Case in point, I tuned my friend's '08 Z06 with a Halltech Killer Bee. It was much richer with the Halltech and stock tune (mostly in the 11s on the AFR, but in the 10s from 4.75k on up). This immediately allowed me to see that the stock MAF transfer values were NOT going to cut it (I knew this before I even started). Basically, the MAF curve will be off by approx. 10% (richer) with the Halltech on the stock tune. A few dyno runs and corrections later and I had his MAF transfer dialed in properly for the new MAF housing, and Commanded fueling was now Actual.
My suggestion, and I've repeated this multiple times before, if all you plan on doing to your Z06 is an intake, and not a tune, then SKIP IT! It's a losing situation. Keep the stock intake, and go get a custom dyno tune from an experience professional. So is having an aftermarket intake with a custom tune worth it, if that is all you plan on doing? IMO, no! Yes, I said "no"! Can it hurt? As long as the tune is properly dialed in for that particular intake, then no, an aftermarket intake will not hurt. Will an aftermarket intake with a tune outperform the stock intake with a tune? Very little to none! Am I being biased towards the stock intake (WTF? LOL!)? Absolutely not (it's the stock intake, of all things). Am I attempting to put aftermarket intake manufacturers out of business? No! Did GM actually get the stock intake right? Yes! Is an aftermarket intake ever worth it? Yes! With an aftermarket cam I would definitely recommend such. As we know, reality and facts are stubborn things sometimes.
I'll most likely summarize everything, complete with dynographs and datalogs, and put it on a thread here within the new day or few, so that everyone can see the reality.
Case in point, I tuned my friend's '08 Z06 with a Halltech Killer Bee. It was much richer with the Halltech and stock tune (mostly in the 11s on the AFR, but in the 10s from 4.75k on up). This immediately allowed me to see that the stock MAF transfer values were NOT going to cut it (I knew this before I even started). Basically, the MAF curve will be off by approx. 10% (richer) with the Halltech on the stock tune. A few dyno runs and corrections later and I had his MAF transfer dialed in properly for the new MAF housing, and Commanded fueling was now Actual.
My suggestion, and I've repeated this multiple times before, if all you plan on doing to your Z06 is an intake, and not a tune, then SKIP IT! It's a losing situation. Keep the stock intake, and go get a custom dyno tune from an experience professional. So is having an aftermarket intake with a custom tune worth it, if that is all you plan on doing? IMO, no! Yes, I said "no"! Can it hurt? As long as the tune is properly dialed in for that particular intake, then no, an aftermarket intake will not hurt. Will an aftermarket intake with a tune outperform the stock intake with a tune? Very little to none! Am I being biased towards the stock intake (WTF? LOL!)? Absolutely not (it's the stock intake, of all things). Am I attempting to put aftermarket intake manufacturers out of business? No! Did GM actually get the stock intake right? Yes! Is an aftermarket intake ever worth it? Yes! With an aftermarket cam I would definitely recommend such. As we know, reality and facts are stubborn things sometimes.
I'll most likely summarize everything, complete with dynographs and datalogs, and put it on a thread here within the new day or few, so that everyone can see the reality.
07-31-2008, 08:47 PM
#59
Again, not true. You may, repeat may, be denied power train warranty coverage for a particular failure caused by the tune. GM must still prove causation between the tune and the failure. Read your Warranty and you will see GM's duty to prove a modification caused a particular problem before warranty coverage may be denied. It is all done on a case by case basis, no blanket voiding of warranties is permitted.
