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[Z06] GM Dealer Hydrolocked my motor doing an Oil Change
10-17-2008, 08:56 AM
#42
Safety Car
Sorry to hear about your problems, you really got screwed.
I just picked up a 2006 Z06 with 3000 miles on it a few days ago, and the dealer offered up a free oil change whenever I want it. I've been debating it, since I always avoid the dealer if at all possible, and this just made up my mind. I'll spend the $50 for oil and a filter to do it myself. My 05 was never back to the dealer in the 3 years that I owned it, hopefully this car will be as good!
I just picked up a 2006 Z06 with 3000 miles on it a few days ago, and the dealer offered up a free oil change whenever I want it. I've been debating it, since I always avoid the dealer if at all possible, and this just made up my mind. I'll spend the $50 for oil and a filter to do it myself. My 05 was never back to the dealer in the 3 years that I owned it, hopefully this car will be as good!
10-17-2008, 09:40 AM
#44
Melting Slicks
That's a scary story 
10-17-2008, 10:09 AM
#45
Le Mans Master
Chris.... Dude... That sucks! I am sorry to hear this. You just got out there. It amazes me how bad some Chevy service departments are. I have been having my own guy do my oil changes for me, but not to long ago my car was in for service and it was due for an oil change. So I decided to let the local Chevy dealer change it while it was there. I got the car back, for the heck of it I checked the oil once I got the car home. 6 quarts in the car....... I called the dealer and they wanted me to bring the car back in and let them check it....HELL NO that dealer will never touch my car again. I went out and bought oil and added it myself. Chris I know you have told me to bring it to the Chevy dealer in Delray, but that is over an hour for me. BUT.. if I have any warranty repairs in the future... I will make the drive. All the dealers locally are terrible!!! I wish you luck my friend.
So how is Cali otherwise? It is awesome out there IMO. You still have the same #... I'll try to drop you a line.
Take care
Frank
So how is Cali otherwise? It is awesome out there IMO. You still have the same #... I'll try to drop you a line.
Take care
Frank
10-17-2008, 10:16 AM
#46
Instructor
Member Since: May 2008
Location: Beautiful San Dimas, Ca
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This idiot tech should have been tipped off when he had to remove the permanenty covered, sealed, attached oil fill hole in the valve cover. How did he expect to close it back up? Replace the valve cover? And what's scary is, how many cars has he done this to? (Since he knows what he's doing and done it before, as he has told you).
10-17-2008, 10:29 AM
#47
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jan 2008
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Reminds me of the story when i had the fluid in the TC of my evo changed and the tech forgot to put the fill plug back on.
Only this is a much more expensive mistake.
Good luck with everything.
Only this is a much more expensive mistake.
Good luck with everything.
10-17-2008, 10:41 AM
#49
Race Director
Man, sorry to hear the nightmare. Another reason I bought my RaceRamps and decided to do my own "almost everything".
10-17-2008, 10:44 AM
#50
This idiot tech should have been tipped off when he had to remove the permanenty covered, sealed, attached oil fill hole in the valve cover. How did he expect to close it back up? Replace the valve cover? And what's scary is, how many cars has he done this to? (Since he knows what he's doing and done it before, as he has told you).
Obviously it wasn't permanent if he was able to get it off.
10-17-2008, 10:46 AM
#51
Supporting Vendor
Member Since: Mar 2002
Location: Bristol, Tennessee
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St. Jude Donor '09
What ever happened to tuning vs warranty?
This might be a great time to purchase a set of Katech Valve covers, eliminating any way for the tech to pour oil into the engine.
This is simply unbelievable. I read the first post only, since I got sick half way through the post.
And GM worries about tuning the ECM.
How many engine failures have been attributed to oil starvation at the track? I think you would be shocked. I think the 09 Z06 has the same dry sump system as the ZR1, and for good reason.
While on the subject of engine failures, I will not name names, but in November 2005, one of GMs C6.R drivers told me that the titanium valves were a problem on the LS7, and GM's techs knew about the possible failures that were coming due to the shear size of the titanium valves. Kinda like Barney Franks and Fanny and Freddy. "Going forward, things look very good!" I know of 4 guys that dropped valves at the track, and the forum has many many more, with broken valve springs, needle bearings in the oil pan and other valve train failures.
So why did GM divert attention to the tuners and promote scare tactics regarding the tuners being the bad guys and anyone caught tuning their ECM would be sent to the principal, and lose their warranty? Spun bearings, and dropped valves do not occur from tuning the ECM, it occurs generally from racing and design failures.
So far, I know of no Z06 that has had a tuning related failure, and I've tuned well over 300 cars. That's not to say it can't happen, but use a hand held tuning device and you are putting someone's best guess into your ECM. A $12,000 motor deserves more than a guess.
The tunes that we did, were developed on the dyno (dozens of dyno tunes), and on the street with GM Tech 2 devices monitoring timing and fuel trims, until we had perfection. Our 2006 Z06 was the first Z06 tuned and made 477 RWHP with no other mods onboard!
There is a good reason why our Z06 made 494 RWHP on Katech's dyno with just tuning and our intake and Kooks headers. Jason didn't think it could make a whole lot more with their cam, I told him to be confident, and prepared for 538 RWHP. That was what it made with my tuning. I think Jason referred to it as "not normal". Four other "not normal" Katech car owners would prefer to remain anonymous, but they make over 550 RWHP with the same tune.
I have tuned dozens of Katech cam cars all over the world, including Geiger Performance Z06s in Germany, Dubai, Hong Kong, Canada, and many other countries. Recently, our customer in Dubai made 560 RWHP with our tune and Katech's cam package, and the Killer Bee Attack.
Most of you know that I no longer tune for the street, the reasons are obvious. This is not a self promoting post, but rather my way of expressing my firm belief in karma-phala, even though I am a devout Christian.
GM effectively put my e-mailTune® out of business with their fear factor episodes of tuning vs. warranty last year. After spending $1,000 just getting the name e-mailTune® Trademark Certified, tuning became the pariah state. We went from tuning 150 cars a year to zero overnight.
Now that GM has had 1 year to examine all the broken engines, I would like them to post, just how many were denied warranty due to the tune being the contributing cause of the breakage. How many stock Z06s have lost motors at the track vs tuned motors?
Jim Hall
This is simply unbelievable. I read the first post only, since I got sick half way through the post.
And GM worries about tuning the ECM.
How many engine failures have been attributed to oil starvation at the track? I think you would be shocked. I think the 09 Z06 has the same dry sump system as the ZR1, and for good reason.While on the subject of engine failures, I will not name names, but in November 2005, one of GMs C6.R drivers told me that the titanium valves were a problem on the LS7, and GM's techs knew about the possible failures that were coming due to the shear size of the titanium valves. Kinda like Barney Franks and Fanny and Freddy. "Going forward, things look very good!" I know of 4 guys that dropped valves at the track, and the forum has many many more, with broken valve springs, needle bearings in the oil pan and other valve train failures.
So why did GM divert attention to the tuners and promote scare tactics regarding the tuners being the bad guys and anyone caught tuning their ECM would be sent to the principal, and lose their warranty? Spun bearings, and dropped valves do not occur from tuning the ECM, it occurs generally from racing and design failures.
So far, I know of no Z06 that has had a tuning related failure, and I've tuned well over 300 cars. That's not to say it can't happen, but use a hand held tuning device and you are putting someone's best guess into your ECM. A $12,000 motor deserves more than a guess.
The tunes that we did, were developed on the dyno (dozens of dyno tunes), and on the street with GM Tech 2 devices monitoring timing and fuel trims, until we had perfection. Our 2006 Z06 was the first Z06 tuned and made 477 RWHP with no other mods onboard!
There is a good reason why our Z06 made 494 RWHP on Katech's dyno with just tuning and our intake and Kooks headers. Jason didn't think it could make a whole lot more with their cam, I told him to be confident, and prepared for 538 RWHP. That was what it made with my tuning. I think Jason referred to it as "not normal". Four other "not normal" Katech car owners would prefer to remain anonymous, but they make over 550 RWHP with the same tune.
I have tuned dozens of Katech cam cars all over the world, including Geiger Performance Z06s in Germany, Dubai, Hong Kong, Canada, and many other countries. Recently, our customer in Dubai made 560 RWHP with our tune and Katech's cam package, and the Killer Bee Attack.
Most of you know that I no longer tune for the street, the reasons are obvious. This is not a self promoting post, but rather my way of expressing my firm belief in karma-phala, even though I am a devout Christian.
GM effectively put my e-mailTune® out of business with their fear factor episodes of tuning vs. warranty last year. After spending $1,000 just getting the name e-mailTune® Trademark Certified, tuning became the pariah state. We went from tuning 150 cars a year to zero overnight.
Now that GM has had 1 year to examine all the broken engines, I would like them to post, just how many were denied warranty due to the tune being the contributing cause of the breakage. How many stock Z06s have lost motors at the track vs tuned motors?
Jim Hall
__________________
"World Class Performance for your Corvette"
Intake Design and Engineering since 1999
Halltech Systems, LLC
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"World Class Performance for your Corvette"
Intake Design and Engineering since 1999
Halltech Systems, LLC
262-510-7600
For service email:
orders@halltechsystems.com
www.halltechsystems.com
10-17-2008, 11:01 AM
#52
Chris.... Dude... That sucks! I am sorry to hear this. You just got out there. It amazes me how bad some Chevy service departments are. I have been having my own guy do my oil changes for me, but not to long ago my car was in for service and it was due for an oil change. So I decided to let the local Chevy dealer change it while it was there. I got the car back, for the heck of it I checked the oil once I got the car home. 6 quarts in the car....... I called the dealer and they wanted me to bring the car back in and let them check it....HELL NO that dealer will never touch my car again. I went out and bought oil and added it myself. Chris I know you have told me to bring it to the Chevy dealer in Delray, but that is over an hour for me. BUT.. if I have any warranty repairs in the future... I will make the drive. All the dealers locally are terrible!!! I wish you luck my friend.
So how is Cali otherwise? It is awesome out there IMO. You still have the same #... I'll try to drop you a line.
Take care
Frank
So how is Cali otherwise? It is awesome out there IMO. You still have the same #... I'll try to drop you a line.
Take care
Frank
Good to hear from you old friend! The dealer in Delray Beach FL is the best. But because I'm now in San Diego CA I have to now find a " great " dealer.
So How do I like San Diego? Well first off the folks that live here are so nice and laid back. That is a BIG plus comming from Delray beach and 90 year olds. The ladys are hot, and the weather is the best. Other than that I'm real happy about our move. At my age most would not just leave a state after 19 years and start over. To me it's the best move at this point in our life.
Chris
10-17-2008, 11:03 AM
#53
Melting Slicks
I too was initially convinced the engine couldn't have been hydro locked, then I continued reading the other posts. Seems that since there was potentially SOOOO much oil in the engine/dry-sump tank, AND there is a way for oil to get into the intake, AND oil came out of the spark plug holes, isn't it now obvious it did get hydro locked???
So the question which needs to be answered now is whether this lock up came while the engine was actually running of just while it was being turned over with the starter motor? If it wasn't actually running when it stopped then the need to have a new engine is completely unreasonable. If the engine was running when it locked then further inspection should determine how much damage was done. Of course I would NOT trust this particular dealership to do such "further investigation" since they have a vested interest in not finding any other damage.
Demanding a completely new engine without first knowing exactly how much damage was done to the old one is not doing yourself any favours.
Lastly, I have a hard time understanding why some people will provide a comment when they haven't read all the posts...it's kinda like shooting off your mouth without loading up your brain.
Cheers, Paul.
So the question which needs to be answered now is whether this lock up came while the engine was actually running of just while it was being turned over with the starter motor? If it wasn't actually running when it stopped then the need to have a new engine is completely unreasonable. If the engine was running when it locked then further inspection should determine how much damage was done. Of course I would NOT trust this particular dealership to do such "further investigation" since they have a vested interest in not finding any other damage.
Demanding a completely new engine without first knowing exactly how much damage was done to the old one is not doing yourself any favours.
Lastly, I have a hard time understanding why some people will provide a comment when they haven't read all the posts...it's kinda like shooting off your mouth without loading up your brain.
Cheers, Paul.
Last edited by MTIRC6Z; 10-17-2008 at 11:05 AM.
10-17-2008, 11:10 AM
#54
Chris
10-17-2008, 11:49 AM
#56
Racer
Member Since: Mar 2008
Location: The Republic of Texas
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Reading this thread makes my stomach hurt. Certainly, a person should expect that a Chevy dealership should professionally/proficiently be able to execute this task. In past threads, I have gotten "side-ways" with others about my obsession with not taking my own vehicles for service to a dealership or quick change facility. Regardless of my preference to change my own oil/do my own service, the sentence above applies relative to a person being able to expect a quality service. Either way, it further "steels" me to never take my vehicles to these places. I wish you the best, and will closely follow your story. Good luck!
10-17-2008, 01:13 PM
#60
Burning Brakes
WTF???
That is sooo over the top I don't even know what to say? All I can say is you handled your self WAY better then me...I would have went to jail, it wouldn't have been pretty after I got done with that A** hole tech!...
I wish you the best...
That is sooo over the top I don't even know what to say? All I can say is you handled your self WAY better then me...I would have went to jail, it wouldn't have been pretty after I got done with that A** hole tech!...
I wish you the best...