[Z06] Katech Titanium/Molybdenum direct replacement LS7 exhaust valves
12-09-2012, 09:22 PM
#101
Racer
No bread...no butter!
12-10-2012, 12:17 AM
#102
Team Owner
Member Since: Apr 2001
Location: Elmhurst, IL (West Suburb of Chicago) & Home of MEGA Horsepower
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St. Jude Donor '06
Jason made it very clear in his first post, "Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we think there's anything wrong with the factory LS7 exhaust valves for the application, but sometimes you've got to give the people what they want."
I've been reading all of these valve threads on the forum, and many of us do not want to use the factory exhaust valves in a rebuild (I have not decided yet). These are an alternative to SS valves, and I think it is a smart business move on his part to offer them to whoever may be interested.
I've been reading all of these valve threads on the forum, and many of us do not want to use the factory exhaust valves in a rebuild (I have not decided yet). These are an alternative to SS valves, and I think it is a smart business move on his part to offer them to whoever may be interested.
12-10-2012, 06:18 AM
#103
Burning Brakes
Jason made it very clear in his first post, "Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we think there's anything wrong with the factory LS7 exhaust valves for the application, but sometimes you've got to give the people what they want."
I've been reading all of these valve threads on the forum, and many of us do not want to use the factory exhaust valves in a rebuild (I have not decided yet). These are an alternative to SS valves, and I think it is a smart business move on his part to offer them to whoever may be interested.
I've been reading all of these valve threads on the forum, and many of us do not want to use the factory exhaust valves in a rebuild (I have not decided yet). These are an alternative to SS valves, and I think it is a smart business move on his part to offer them to whoever may be interested.
There is nothing wrong with addressing an existing market demand.
12-10-2012, 08:24 AM
#104
Premium Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
We can get stock guides from LPE.
Jason, can you make these values available to WCCH? Also, the solid S/S values require new springs. If we can use the old (OEM) springs because thes TI values a 6 g liter than OEM we will save another $300 or so. Count me in. I was planning to pull my heads in January. Thanks for this great solution.
Mark
Mark
12-10-2012, 08:54 AM
#105
Premium Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
Jason,
If I rebuild my heads vs bone stock replacements (warranty) then my preference would be a replacement non-soduim lightweight exhaust valve as you outlined in your OP. So, mark me down as interested.
I would echo JetBlue427's question on OEM guide compatibility (as I prefer to go that route).
I presume there is no fatigue or heat issue in using these in normally aspirated street use for, say, 50K miles?
If I rebuild my heads vs bone stock replacements (warranty) then my preference would be a replacement non-soduim lightweight exhaust valve as you outlined in your OP. So, mark me down as interested.
I would echo JetBlue427's question on OEM guide compatibility (as I prefer to go that route).
I presume there is no fatigue or heat issue in using these in normally aspirated street use for, say, 50K miles?
These are basically the same as the OEM intake valve, CrN coated Ti, but with molybdenum stems, so the longevity should be the same as stock.
This is precisely where the Ferrea Super Alloy valves shine. They are designed for the high temperatures. That's what Ragin' Racin' used in my car.
Jason, curious, but I see a lot of talk about how SS valves are not necessarily the be-all, end-all solution because of extra weight, but I see very little discussion about the Super Alloy valves, which are not SS. Thoughts on those and how they would compare with your solution? I am a fan of Katech and would have possibly considered these had they been available.
Thanks.
Jason, curious, but I see a lot of talk about how SS valves are not necessarily the be-all, end-all solution because of extra weight, but I see very little discussion about the Super Alloy valves, which are not SS. Thoughts on those and how they would compare with your solution? I am a fan of Katech and would have possibly considered these had they been available.
Thanks.
We found that the exhaust valve went out of control at 6900RPM so we dialed back the camshaft lobe aggressiveness until we got it under control.
There will always be spectators and players. The players did not want to be a victim so they went with the ss set up. They work well. Are they heavier? yes. However with a heavier spring there is no floating and the motor revs just as before. Some of us have torn them down after the install to double check and gather data. All is good.
I am sure the Katech valve is great as well. Due to the weight savings no need to go with a heavier spring. As time goes on there will continue to be a new fix. The one thing you dont want to do is sit and wait. If you do there is a good chance you will end up being a spectator/victim.
I am sure the Katech valve is great as well. Due to the weight savings no need to go with a heavier spring. As time goes on there will continue to be a new fix. The one thing you dont want to do is sit and wait. If you do there is a good chance you will end up being a spectator/victim.
Sorry, but the fact that Katech is even mentioning that they are prepping to mass produce these new light-weight exhaust valves for our ls7's is proof, IMO, that the stock valves are the culprit aka garbage relating to the stock valve failures, guides out-of-spec, bla bla bla. They of course can't just come out and say that after years of denying it, but come on, where there's smoke usually a fire lies (valves breaking).
Also, after years of Katech saying stock ex valves were not the problem and saying how they were perfectly fine to use in conjunction with bronze guides, why now is Katech offer these new ex valves??? Is it realllllllly doing a favor to all us Z owners (a light-weight $$$ alternative)?? Or is it making a profit off of fear and paranoia while confusing the fu#k out of us by swerving on this whole ordeal???
Just my first gut reaction to this thread....
Also, after years of Katech saying stock ex valves were not the problem and saying how they were perfectly fine to use in conjunction with bronze guides, why now is Katech offer these new ex valves??? Is it realllllllly doing a favor to all us Z owners (a light-weight $$$ alternative)?? Or is it making a profit off of fear and paranoia while confusing the fu#k out of us by swerving on this whole ordeal???
Just my first gut reaction to this thread....
Saying we're trying to profit off fear and paranoia is a bit of a stretch. I'm just saying we have these valves, are you interested. Not the sky is falling and you must buy these valves or your engine will blow up. Big difference there.
I think your gut reaction is wrong in this case, but it's MHO.
The very first sentence in the thread say it all very clearly....
"We made these Ti/Mo exhaust valves for a race program and we could make more if you guys are interested."
I think you'd agree that their 24 hour endurance program requires a different mindset when it comes to durability and performance.
To offer something from their racing program as an alternative to those who live in fear of the OEM two-piece valve, IMHO, does not in any way suggest to me that they are backing away from their feeling that the OEM valve is fine for street duty.
THe vendor bashing here is getting out of hand. No one....EVEN KATECH, is saying that you must purchase these valves. They are simply offering an alternative for those who are weight concious of their valve train and want to use a single piece valve for their engine.
People who wish to use stainless steel valves, knock yourself out.
Why come in Jason's thread and bash Katech for offering parts to the consumer ?
The very first sentence in the thread say it all very clearly....
"We made these Ti/Mo exhaust valves for a race program and we could make more if you guys are interested."
I think you'd agree that their 24 hour endurance program requires a different mindset when it comes to durability and performance.
To offer something from their racing program as an alternative to those who live in fear of the OEM two-piece valve, IMHO, does not in any way suggest to me that they are backing away from their feeling that the OEM valve is fine for street duty.
THe vendor bashing here is getting out of hand. No one....EVEN KATECH, is saying that you must purchase these valves. They are simply offering an alternative for those who are weight concious of their valve train and want to use a single piece valve for their engine.
People who wish to use stainless steel valves, knock yourself out.
Why come in Jason's thread and bash Katech for offering parts to the consumer ?
12-10-2012, 09:21 AM
#106
You don't know this for sure without spin testing. They could be floating when the power is dropping off at redline and you don't know. Or they could be floating a couple hundred RPM over redline. We look for at least 800RPM safety margin between redline and valvetrain limit.
QUOTE...
Has it been confirmed that with a stronger spring that valves are floating?
QUOTE...
Has it been confirmed that with a stronger spring that valves are floating?
12-10-2012, 09:33 AM
#107
Premium Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
You don't know this for sure without spin testing. They could be floating when the power is dropping off at redline and you don't know. Or they could be floating a couple hundred RPM over redline. We look for at least 800RPM safety margin between redline and valvetrain limit.
QUOTE...
Has it been confirmed that with a stronger spring that valves are floating?
QUOTE...
Has it been confirmed that with a stronger spring that valves are floating?
12-10-2012, 09:53 AM
#109
As other's have said, with the Ti exhaust valves, you can use the OEM beehive springs with a moderate cam selection (such as the Katech Torquer) which will offset a percentage of the cost. Me personally, I have the Katech sourced PSI 1511 beehives which will compliment the Katech Torquer first gen 110 cam I've been sitting on for two years.
Waiting for a light weight alternative for the exhaust valve to appear on the market has worked in my favor, IMHO.
12-10-2012, 10:08 AM
#110
Premium Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
Sure, it may. This isn't for everybody. Let's rewind a little though. Back in the early 2000s people were buying C5-R heads which were extremely expensive. Today we have a production LS7 head that was designed off the C5-R port, with Ti/Mo intake and exhaust valves and bronze guides like the C5-R, and accepts factory rocker arms. We're pretty close to the content of C5-R heads at a fraction of the price.
12-10-2012, 10:09 AM
#111
Premium Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
$2400 if you decided to replace the intake valves too.
As other's have said, with the Ti exhaust valves, you can use the OEM beehive springs with a moderate cam selection (such as the Katech Torquer) which will offset a percentage of the cost. Me personally, I have the Katech sourced PSI 1511 beehives which will compliment the Katech Torquer first gen 110 cam I've been sitting on for two years.
Waiting for a light weight alternative for the exhaust valve to appear on the market has worked in my favor, IMHO.
As other's have said, with the Ti exhaust valves, you can use the OEM beehive springs with a moderate cam selection (such as the Katech Torquer) which will offset a percentage of the cost. Me personally, I have the Katech sourced PSI 1511 beehives which will compliment the Katech Torquer first gen 110 cam I've been sitting on for two years.
Waiting for a light weight alternative for the exhaust valve to appear on the market has worked in my favor, IMHO.
12-10-2012, 10:16 AM
#112
12-10-2012, 10:23 AM
#113
Melting Slicks
Then, the ti exhaust valves only add an incremental cost of around $900 to the fix using bronze guides...not cheap but heck when you've got it all apart and IF you're parinoid of the stock exhaust valves, sure seems like a pretty reasonable alternative 'fix'.
Cheers, Paul.
12-10-2012, 12:41 PM
#114
Racer
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Thanks for the information Jason. What is the general availability time line for a set of these valves? Days, Weeks, Months?
12-10-2012, 12:45 PM
#115
Premium Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
12-10-2012, 01:17 PM
#116
Team Owner
If I understand correctly the factory intake valves are Titanium and the Molybdenum is recommended for the softer bronze guide.
If you were to stay with the OEM PM guides is it possible to offer a Titanium exh. valve without the coating? If so would the heat from being on the ehaust side be a problem?
If you were to stay with the OEM PM guides is it possible to offer a Titanium exh. valve without the coating? If so would the heat from being on the ehaust side be a problem?
12-10-2012, 01:34 PM
#117
Race Director
I would like to know the same. If I try to get a set of LS7 heads with the factory guides, what coating on the Ti valves would be desirable? Is there a finish level to the Ti stem that would also be advisable for the PM factory guides?
12-10-2012, 01:46 PM
#118
Premium Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
If I understand correctly the factory intake valves are Titanium and the Molybdenum is recommended for the softer bronze guide.
If you were to stay with the OEM PM guides is it possible to offer a Titanium exh. valve without the coating? If so would the heat from being on the ehaust side be a problem?
If you were to stay with the OEM PM guides is it possible to offer a Titanium exh. valve without the coating? If so would the heat from being on the ehaust side be a problem?
12-10-2012, 03:04 PM
#119
Drifting
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Jason made it very clear in his first post, "Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we think there's anything wrong with the factory LS7 exhaust valves for the application, but sometimes you've got to give the people what they want."
I've been reading all of these valve threads on the forum, and many of us do not want to use the factory exhaust valves in a rebuild (I have not decided yet). These are an alternative to SS valves, and I think it is a smart business move on his part to offer them to whoever may be interested.
I've been reading all of these valve threads on the forum, and many of us do not want to use the factory exhaust valves in a rebuild (I have not decided yet). These are an alternative to SS valves, and I think it is a smart business move on his part to offer them to whoever may be interested.
100% Smart business decision all the way around..And offering a peace of mind remedy for anyone who feels there is a need to beef up there valvetrain. IM so thankfull i met jason on this forum last january! I was getting sick reading about this valve issue last christmas and feeling bad about my purchase of my 2009 Z06.. I thought i had bought a lemon!!!!! Now its christmas time again and i have the best christmas present ever for myself. (after the love of my children and jesus christ loves me
) I have # 56 Katech sitting in my garage and she is the most beautifull automobile iv ever owned, period..And my heads are stock! Iv been assured they are good and not to worry. Bravo to you Jason for trying to give the people what they want
