tommyc6z06

Yep! Got these last year, after having had a real 'moment' at Mosport T2 when the OE setup slipped very suddenly under high load

Racingswh

Damn the car looks good in the last picture at LRP!!

J79guy

New to the forum, but have studied this whole post in detail. Don't know how the PM function works, so could you please PM me? Interested in the LG coilovers if still available. Thanks, J79guy.

Mordeth

I'm behind on updates. Here is a recap from the Watkins Glen Race from the end of August (race videos below):

I installed new Penske 8300 double adjustable coilovers to replace my LG G2s. Nothing at all wrong with the G2s, but I got a killer deal from a buddy on a fresh set of Penskes and I couldn't resist. The car has been pushing alot and I needed a way to adjust both compression and rebound.


The install was fairly straightforward. I also swapped the springs for 650F and 750R.




I mounted the canisters in the rear on the cage. I pieced together some brackets I had and it came out pretty good:



The front was a little more tricky as there is limited room in the engine bay and I didn't want the canisters near a heat source. Here is where I ended up installing them. I'm happy with it, and it clears the hood.




I initially set both the rebound and compression in the middle. There is almost 50 levels of adjustment per damper for compression and something like 25 levels of adjustment on the rebound. So it will take some messing around, testing and adjusting before I get them where I want them.

I corner balanced the car again and set ride height,due to the new dampers and some other changes I made. This is with about 50% fuel and driver. I need to be minimum 3216 lbs @400whp with no fuel for my racing class (ST2), so I'm good.


Got my tires mounted. This is a set of 315/335 and 315/345. I have been wanting to move to a 345 rear for a while, but have been concerned over clearance. The wing puts alot of downforce on the rear and in the past the rear fender has hit the tire as well as the inner fender liner. But screw it, let's give it a shot again with these new dampers, as I can now control compression and get my ride height where I want it.



I also replaced the front brake pads. This is on my new AP Racing setup. For the record, I have literally not as much as touched these brakes (excepting fluid changes) since the BEGINNING of 2019. They are miraculous. Run literally forever, never fade and are supremely confidence inspiring. Rotors are still perfect and I can hardly believe it.

Look at these meat patties! 25mm monsters:



Well on to the races!

Unloaded at the Glen:




The car felt DRAMATICALLY different and better. Far more planted. The EXTREME push/understeer, while still present, was GREATLY diminished. The car turns in better and tracks out better now and stays more balanced throughout the corner. There is still some push but nowhere near what I was experiencing previously. And now I can work on dialing it out through adjustments to the dampers and ride-height.

My previous best lap with ~550whp was a 1:58.2. Here is a lap from this race with 400whp (1:59.7):



During the 1st wheel to wheel race on Saturday, I qualified 2nd:




It was a fantastic race and alot of fun. I ended up finishing 3rd. During the race, my rear tire, under compression, hit the inner fender liner and tore it out. I was in 2nd place at the time, and this caused me to slow down and fall all the way to the back of the pack. Once it "self-corrected" (by tearing out the entire fender liner), I continued on. I fought back to regain almost all of my positions and almost finished 2nd.

On Grid and ready to rumble:



Here is the full race video. Fender liner goes KABOOM at the 9:00 mark.




Carnage from the wheel well liner. I ended up just cutting almost all of the rest of it out and only leaving the section that holds the diffuser in the place:






On Sunday, the W2W race was under yellow for almost the entire race due to a crash, and not much to report. However, I did win 1st place in TTU, which means two new Hoosier A7s coming my way!





The car made it home safe and sound. I went back and reviewed all of my data from my AIM SOLO II DL. My best ROLLING lap for the weekend was a 1:57.525! Which is the quickest and fastest I have ever gone at the Glen, and with 150 LESS wheel horsepower!!!!




I have since went to NJMP for another race. It did not go well due to yet ANOTHER failure of my torque tube during qualifying. I am working on repairs/upgrades now and am trying to make a race next week at Palmer in Massachusetts. I will update the post with more details and what happened once I get the car squared away. I am so damn SICK of the worthless, disgusting rubber guibos in the TT. So I am working on another solution (solid couplers).

tommyc6z06

Thanks for sharing the trials, tribulations and successes.
I’m still amazed about how much improvement there’s been to allow a faster time, with that much less power. Could it also be the driving? 😉
To an extreme, it kinda reinforces why some Miata guys still have so much fun

Tommy

PS thanks again for the TurnOne PS pump info...fixed the problem!

Premiumspeed

Very impressive!

drewz06

fantastic!

HowWhyWhyHow

I know I'm really late to the party. But oh man I have to comment on this. This is brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. This setup with the underside skirt mounted forward the oil cooler still working for you?

Awesome

Just for Speed

What thermostat are you running? Great results on coolant and oil temps! Thank you so much for sharing what you have learned. I’ll try moving my IR cooler and see what it does for me.

Mordeth

160 degree thermostat for water. 212 degree thermostat for oil. Yes, car has continued to run cool, no matter how hard I push, or for how long, or how hot the ambient temp is.

Just for Speed

How did your experience with the vacuum pump go? Where have you ended up with pcv routing and setup? I saw you had some oil in the original intake and added a catch can so just wondering what your experience has been with resolving that on track like what has and hasn't worked for you. Thanks! This is a great thread.

romandian

how does that oil cooler setup really work? air exits under the car? but why the rubber lip behind it? or do you have a skirt in front of it as mentioned above? maybe the splitter provides a suction effect by itself? so the cooling air exits partly through the hood and partly under the car, right? kind of mittigating the downforce effect of the splitter.

Mordeth

Vacuum pump was an utter failure. So it was removed and tossed. I don't advise it for road course cars. Maybe for a drag setup.

Oil cooler exits air out the bottom. Flap is in FRONT of the hole I cut in the splitter/undertray. It creates a low pressure zone at the hole which sucks air out. Works perfectly and exactly. Air from the radiator (sealed) is vented out the hood. Air from the oiler cooler is sucked out and vented through the bottom hole. I do lose a small amount of frontal downforce but it isn't much. There is more than adequate front downforce to balance the rear wing. And everything is a tradeoff on a race car. If you own and use a race car you will come to learn this.

Just for Speed

Good to know! I’ll steer clear of the pump. What did you end up with for pcv routing and catch cans to vent crank gasses?

Mordeth

Mighty Mouse mild catch-can and otherwise OEM pcv routing. Also works perfectly. And I have tried countless, countless different configurations, all tested on race tracks and in race conditions, including the vacuum pump. Don't mess too much with the PCV system. Just install a good catch-can (like Mighty Mouse mild version) and be done.

romandian

have you considered/tried laying the rad forward? seems that would promote air extraction through the hood.

Mordeth

Yes I have considered and tried all sorts of configurations. More so than I've even documented here. As I've already stated clearly and unambiguously multiple times, I have found a configuration that works for my car and how I use it (10/10ths race), and works quite well in fact. I've detailed it in this very thread and have provided video and picture evidence. I do not need to try anything else.

There are likely other configurations that work (lay radiator forward and move oil coolers to fog light holes, or use a radiator that has an integrated oil cooler, or manufacture, like I did, some other system). You are welcome to try them on your car. I have zero need to try them as my setup now works and cools perfectly, consistently and regardless of ambient temperature or how hard I push it. Not sure how else to explain this fact.

romandian

you need not explain the fact because im in no way doubting you, as you seem to be implying. i need to increase cooling on the car and am simply looking for the best way to start (no aero).

if i may ask, how much is your splitter off the ground and how big the lip in front of it?

Mordeth

There are many issues, but the main issues with the C6Z are cooling system capacity/efficiency (which if improved will lengthen the amount of time before heat soak) and airflow. Airflow is more important as it allows the vehicles cooling systems to reach a point of stability and not go into run-away mode. You address capacity and efficiency with a better, more robust radiator and oil cooler(s). In my case, a massive Dewitts Radiator, larger dry sump tank, and massive Improved Racing oil cooler, with proper thermostats. You address airflow by ensuring that all air entering the front grille has an unimpeded path both in an out of the radiator, and into and out of the oil cooler (wherever you have placed it). In my case I moved the oil cooler to a new position (as documented here) and completely sealed the grille and shroud. All air hitting the front grille has no choice but to go through the radiator and oil cooler, and is directed (sucked) out of the car. I also vented the hood, vented the undertray, sealed everything and created low pressure zones at the venting locations. These changes (and others) had an immediate and profound effect. There is now so much airflow through and out the radiator that car actually cools down the water (from idle) once I am at speed to around 190F, as opposed to going into runaway mode to 250F+. And both oil and water reach the desired temperature quickly AND stay there, no matter the conditions (most important!! Stabilization).

I cannot stress enough how important airflow is. You must address it, in whatever method you desire. I have documented how I addressed it (after significant time, expense, trial and error), and it works for me (and works perfectly). There are other solutions as well.

I said this earlier in this thread, but I will repeat it here:
________________________________________ ________________________________________ ________________________________________ ________________________________________ ______________________
Coolant (water) now stabilizes in the 190s with 550whp regardless of conditions. Oil 225-240°. I have documented all of my efforts right here in this thread as to what I have done to the cooling systems in the car. It was alot of trial and error and years of overheating.

From runaway coolant temps of 250+ and 280 oil (even with upgraded parts) and constant "coolant over-temp/limp mode" that cost me some races, the short story is:

1) Vented hood: -7°
2) Ditch AC condenser: -3°
3) Distilled water + Water wetter: -8°
4) Move fabricated brake ducts from front grille to fog lights: -5°
5) Completely sealing shroud: -5°
6) Cut hole in bottom of splitter/undertray and install flap in front (to create low pressure zone) for air to exit: -10°
7) Move oil cooler from front of radiator and lay flat. More sealing/ducting of front grille and shroud. -30°

The single biggest change was moving the oil cooler and laying it flat. It allows a direct air path to the radiator with air that is not being blocked and super-heated by the oil cooler. Additionally, it allows the water temp to STABILIZE instead of in RUN-AWAY mode like before. In fact, the car idles around 205° and coolant temps go down on track and stay there, no matter how many laps I do. Airflow is paramount and the single most important thing you can do. All air entering the front grille MUST go through the radiator directly and unimpeded, and have a natural path out (out the hood and out the bottom).

Again all of this is outlined in this thread with extensive pictures and details. That's why I don't create new threads every time I post. It's all in here for anyone to see.
________________________________________ ________________________________________ ________________________________________ _____________


My splitter height varies depending on what setup I am running and what track, but I usually set it at 3" - 3.5" and it is level. Again this is a compromise. Certainly, the lower the better, but there is in fact a point that it can be too low, which scrapes every damn thing and doesn't allow enough air to move quickly underneath. You want the air below the car moving faster than the air above the car (this sucks the car down). Typically somewhere in the 3-4" seems to work for me, and this is after MUCH testing and changes to ride height, rake, splitter angle, wing angle, damper settings etc. I test this on the track, and analyze my videos (and all the accompanying data I collect), and also I take high speed pictures of the car, that show me what the car is doing during acceleration, braking (very important) and cornering. Aerodynamics is even more complex than cooling. It is basically voodoo magic and I don't think anyone in the world truly understands it (not even Formula 1). There are so many variables that alot of it guess work and most of it trial and error. It is also a dynamic (ever changing) situation so it is hard to find any constants to compare to. All you can do is start with a baseline (ride-height, damper settings, splitter height/angle and wing angle) and then test from there. Every car is different. Every track is different. Driving styles are different. There is no "one size fits all", and again much of it is voodoo magic (that is, when it works, you can't really explain how and when it doesn't work you don't really know why). Lots of guessing and experimenting.


Here is an example of too much rear wing angle. This is at speed on the front straight of Watkins Glen wide open throttle (140mph+) Look at how much the rear fenders are compressed (look at the lack of gap between fender and tire and how the side skirt is angled up) and the front is lifting up (creating a lever effect):



Here is another pic from same section of the track with much less rear wing angle. You can see how the car is basically flat (which is what you want).

Aardwolf

How is NASA treating you? I let my license expire since they stopped going to my local Road America. I was more TT1-3 than U.

It looks like radiator air still exits under the car and the chin spoiler is behind the oil cooler, is air entering it from the bottom instead of exiting? Thank you for documenting. I was just starting to look at tipping the radiator forward etc etc and didn't really want to do that with this new to me car.

This is a large thread and I don't think I saw it yet, did you remove the side vent covers behind the front wheels? Or maybe your car version doesn't have them.