keeso6z

It was $2,150. In response to the comments about the C5 Z06 losing value, I just saw on sell at Barret-Jackson for $67K plus the buyer's fee. As far as the C6 Z I think they will become collectible at some point. But the car will need to be in pristine condition with low miles. Could be a long way down the road though.

Matt was also trying to talk me out of headers and I love em. The reason I went with this intake combo is the research I did on the forum. They were coming up with numbers in the 20-22rwhp range, not 6rwhp. But Matt said they haven't added my upgrades without a cam and couldn't give me a good estimate. His comment was "it made a Hell of a lot more power than I thought it would". I'd say so- 3 times as much. I took it for a short test drive today and it's scary fast. Lot's of fun and sounds awesome.

outhouse

The MSD needs to come off after 2-3 hours of use, and all the clamshell bolts reloktited. They all get loose from the heat after having manifold to head bolts tightened down. And those bolts get loose after two days and need to be retightened.


While its off port it yourself with a dremel and aggressive sanding wheels.


matter of fact, go out and see how loose the outer clamshell allen screws are, after two hours mine were almost finger loose if it wasn't for the loktite

keeso6z

Good input, thanks. Based on what I read on the Forum, and Matt's input, this intake makes more power than the latest Fast. Initially, I was going to go with the Fast, but glad I did my homework.

outhouse

Problem with this intake is due to casting flaws numbers are all over the board as far as gains go.


You have spent so much on so many great mods, no use leaving 15hp on the table with a good porting.




Look at the stock casting flaws and imagine them cleaned up, I cleaned them up

Mordeth

Never mind a "collector car". We don't have collector's car brother. Maybe if it was C6 ZR1....MAYBE. A C6 Z06 isn't an investment, not even close. Yours will be worth about what mine will be worth (except mine will be driven as designed)...same as everyone else, or perhaps you get an extra grand due to it being a garage queen. Hardly worth it. Fact is, GM made over 25,000 C6 Z06s and over 200,000 C6s in total.

Either way, get a proper cam and have the MSD ported, and never mind what this "pro" Matt says. Then drive the living **** out of it. Let God sort out what is left.

SupercarFreak

This thread was an interesting read. I hate to hijack, but has anyone noticed significant improvements from porting a FAST 102 manifold?

Ghost Knight

Only a madman would pay $67k for a C5z. I'd say $16k would be my ceiling for that car, regardless of miles and mods. 10 years from now, it'll be the same for our cars. Shrugs

Drive it like you stole it baby!

cseaman

Guess you will never find yourself with a clean-title C5Z.

redbird555

I very much disagree with this statement, while I dont believe they will ever be collector cars I dont think any Z will drop exponentially in value. Base c4/c5 are cheap yes because they were just base models but look at a c5z over the past few years they have pretty much bottomed out. A clean c5z with under 100k is still a high teens car most of the time. Low mileage ones are in the low 20s. For the c4 there really was no "z" cars unless you look at zr1 which were somehwhat low production but again good luck finding one of those super cheap.

68Stang

I've been a customer of 21st for years now. When I had my LS3 car Matt and John were more than willing to go to a larger grind cam for me than the cmc30 they had at the time. They're also the only local shop who didn't give my girlfriend the "girl treatment" so she chose them to do the cam and tune on her 2010 Camaro. Now she has a CTS-V coupe and they have done her headers and pulley and will be doing her cam and lower next. They definitely aren't talking her out of modding, they actually support it and think its cool. They also put the new LS7 in my Z06 with an aggressive cam and stupidly light clutch/flywheel. Matt never tried to talk me out of any mod I've done and actually came off as supportive. I think if you present yourself as knowing what you want and what you're talking about they're willing to do it. What they don't want is some guy getting in over their head and going more aggressive than what they truly want and then blaming the shop for "messing up" their car when all the shop did is what the customer asked - happens all too often.

Having said all that, I too had them tune the MSD I installed on the last build. It gained maybe 10rwhp. I was one of, if not the first on this forum to have installed and tuned the manifold. Their Z/28 saw similar results at the time. Maybe I got a really crappy early casting of the manifold. Who knows. Your gains look good to me and I'm a little jealous. I've thought about porting mine just for peace of mind.

meinersk

you just spent 1.700 on nw and msd plus what 600 install and tune 2,300 dollars for 18 rwhp? the port another 550 with shipping for what another 7rwhp on a no cam car....hes looking out for u a bit maybe thats why he didnt mention porting at another 550 dollars

injfuel

That's exactly why unless your filthy rich you need to be a mechanic to own a race car , labor eats you alive , I ported my own and others boss intakes for our mustangs that a shop would charge $250 to do and I'll port a MSD myself if I get one
https://www.dropbox.com/s/skpbmvxuvl...%20PM.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8avve60pp1...%20PM.jpg?dl=0

keeso6z

I'm an older guy and they got the impression that I'm conservative. They mentioned the negative side effects of a cam and didn't think it would be for me. And your exactly right - they didn't want to feel responsible if I didn't like. These guys are not cheap, but their honest. The car picked up some nice gains here including about 26rwtq, so no question it was worth the money. But I would have been better off if I did it all at one time. They charge a discounted fee for a retune. But I was doing research and wasn't sure about what I would do next. I think they also got the impression I was very nit picky and protective of my car and that was accurate.

keeso6z

But I also added a NW 102 TB.

RamAir972003

Stop beating up on John and Matt they did my car I provided my own heads they never told me no, actually John told me to add a little lump to the gt-20 cam now I know there cams have been put for a while might be a little hard on valvetrain but they give results.. if you have a budget they will work with you.....Matt is a good tuner......good luck

keeso6z

Not beating up them at all. In fact I wouldn't trust my car to anyone else in town. These guys are the best. They don't try and sell you anything and just want you to be happy with the car. I called another shop in town and I just didn't have good feelings. I also read all the Google reviews on 21st Century and they were stellar. I highly recommend them. These guys are the Corvette and muscle car pros.

On that note, I have another story. When I bought the car, I took it to Classic Chevrolet in Grapevine to have all the fluids changed. That was this past summer. My service adviser called with a problem with the rear diff. He said that they couldn't get the bolt out and that it has seized and when they did get it out, it came out with the threads or that it stripped. They said I needed a new rear diff and it would cost around $3,300 (don't remember the exact figure). I was floored. I called John at 21st Century and he said let me give you a quote on it and he came in around $2,700. I went back to Classic and the grudgingly agreed to match it. But at that point I didn't feel comfortable with them and got the car and took it to 21st Century. John said they might be able to fix it. Well, they ended up fixing it for $175. They said the thread was fine and they used some kind of sealer when putting the drain bolt back in. It hasn't leaked since. That impressed me about these guys and how honest they are, and how good their techs are. I will backup just a bit and say that I did get the car back from Classic and after a week or so I noticed some fluid on the garage floor under the diff. It was leaking and I got up under there and the bolt appeared to be screwed in crooked. It wasn't seating square to the housing. That is when I took it back to Classic and they told me all the BS. Also, Classic recommended changing all the fluids but forgot about the clutch fluid which 21st Century said would be the one that would be the most critical to change. So I had them change it. Prior to my purchase of the car, it sat in the garage for 10 years and had 2,000 miles on it with 1 or 2 oil changes. Classic claimed that over that time period the aluminum rear axle bonded with the steel drain hole bolt and was a flaw in GM engineering. That is why they couldn't get it out without using excessive force. Anyway, 21st Century fixed it and saved me a bunch of money.

Dan_the_C5_Man

Take note.. A Z06 differential doesn't have a drain bolt. It does have a fill bolt, but the draining is done by disconnecting the cooler line fitting. The transmission does have a drain bolt.

From your description, it sounds like the "experts" at the dealership cross-threaded either the diff fill or trans drain bolt and tried to make up some magical story to cover their mistake. Typical.

keeso6z

I spoke to Matt today about the porting and he said it wasn't worth the extra expense on a car with the stock cam. On a cam car - yes. As far as the bolts coming lose on the MSD, he said they use Loctite on the bolts to keep them from backing out and said I should be good to go.

Beach Bum

Matt is a true Pro.... very few if anybody has more experience modifying, tuning and dynoing late models including Z's. Its all he does and he has an excellent reputation.

If he was advising a customer against a CAM, it was a recommendation for that customers specific application.

21st Century is a very honest and straightforward tuner.... they will not try to sell you something just for the sake of selling something. They'll often try to talk you out of spending money with them if they do not believe the modification will provide a respectable return.

keeso6z

Well said on Matt. I would add that he was advising me against the cam because of his perception of what I want out of my car - he didn't want me to regret my decision and have a car I'm not happy with. I couldn't be happier with the results I have now =tons of power and stock drivability. The only thing really left to do would be mild cam and porting the MSD, but I don't see that happening based on my particular needs. But who knows - building, modding and increase the performance is fun - but expensive!