[Z06] Post your Estimates on the price here....
#21
Burning Brakes
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Originally Posted by Tom Steele
I see there are more than two of us, but we are still surrounded by folks who think the car is going to be re-tasked for a completely different mission than it was successfully accomplishing for the past several years.
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It seems like a lot of folks here want the Z06 to be something it wasn't before. I'm hoping it will keep its current mission. A surprisingly reasonably priced high-performance Corvette.
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It seems like a lot of folks here want the Z06 to be something it wasn't before. I'm hoping it will keep its current mission. A surprisingly reasonably priced high-performance Corvette.
#22
Team Owner
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CI 1-4-5-8-9-10 Vet
St. Jude Donor '03,'04,'05,'07,08,'09,'10,’17
No offense to anyone, but you can't reason the price to be what you want it to be. It's no more valid than all of the people who "reasoned" why the AE would have "the big motor" I don't think people naming high prices are doing so because they want to part with more $$. Dave Hill said the C6 Z06 would make up 20% of production vs. 25% for the C5 Z06. That implies a wider price gap. A 75 to 100 HP increase over the base model w/ a dry sump motor will require a more substantial increment. I HOPE it's less than $60K because at that price, I just might be able to afford one. With fully optioned verts in that range, I'm afraid the Z will be north of $60K (out the door).
#23
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by SteveJ
We already know the Z06 will be more differentiated from the C6 than the C5 version was. This has been the constant theme of comments from GM. What we don't know are the details. There will be different brakes, different body panels, and unspecified other differences from the C6 coupe besides the engine, wheels and tires, and suspension. We're really shooting in the dark here. The fun will be this same guessing game played after January when we know what the car will have, unless they indicate at that time an approximate MSRP.
Michael
#24
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Originally Posted by Michael A
If they price it too high, they will never get enough sales volume to pay their tooling back. GM has a bad habit of introducing cars, which later are taken off the market due to poor sales. If they price the Z06 too high, and sales don't take off, then management will quickly can the entire thing. All Z06 development will cease. That will be the end of that. We will be back to one engine, and two models.
Michael
Michael
#26
Safety Car
One thing everyone seems to be overlooking...
GM wants to push more Corvettes to the European market and this includes the C6 Z06. A Corvette that is over $60K out the door here will not sell in the UK due to market/import tariffs and exchange rates. GM is also smart enough to realize that the American consumer will not subsidize a 'lower' market price to the Europeans.
Regardless of how good the car is Europeans will still look at it as a 'Chevy'.
GM wants to push more Corvettes to the European market and this includes the C6 Z06. A Corvette that is over $60K out the door here will not sell in the UK due to market/import tariffs and exchange rates. GM is also smart enough to realize that the American consumer will not subsidize a 'lower' market price to the Europeans.
Regardless of how good the car is Europeans will still look at it as a 'Chevy'.
#27
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Originally Posted by ilovecorvettec5's
Like the Price is Right
My Guess on the Z06 price $58 520
Yours?
My Guess on the Z06 price $58 520
Yours?
#28
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Pricing it above $60K would be a major mistake in my opinion. First off, if I could afford that much for a Z06, I'd seriously have to consider a viper first as it offers the one thing so many of us have been asking for.....open air. If the price gets in arms reach of the viper, they'd better count on making that production percentage more like 5% rather than 20%. And this is all assuming of course that the LS7 really is 500 hp!!!!!
I have to imagine that the price gap between the Z06 and the base car will certainly be larger than with the C5, but larger is high $50s. If it was proportional, the Z06 cost what it does now. But since the hp gap *may* be another 50hp(and only 25 ftlbs), I can't imagine it going over $60K.
I have to imagine that the price gap between the Z06 and the base car will certainly be larger than with the C5, but larger is high $50s. If it was proportional, the Z06 cost what it does now. But since the hp gap *may* be another 50hp(and only 25 ftlbs), I can't imagine it going over $60K.
#29
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St. Jude Donor '03-'05-'06
Another thing I don't understand about the $60k plus point of view is that people actually take their Z06's and race them. It seems like to me, that the higher you price the car, the less you are going to see it used for its purpose.
This is probably the number one reason the current ZO6 dominates SCCA T1 class. Any other car cost way more to run and is marginaly (if at all) quicker.
#30
Le Mans Master
$67,531.52
#34
Evolutionary not revolutionary
As I originaly posted 6/5/2004, my guess is $58,800...
Originally Posted by HellBent
GM seems pretty predictable with their changes to the vette. I was able to call the C6 at 400 HP even and only a slight price increase. Made sense. To quote GM "...evolutionary vice revolutionary...".
Doing the GM math:
(loaded C5 ZO6 = $54,200) - (loaded C5 cpe = $47,988) = $6,212
(loaded C6 ZO6 = $58,800) - (loaded C6 cpe = $52,000) = $6,800
Now figuring in a fudge factor of a grand or two, you get around $60,000 for a new loaded C6 ZO6; give or take some small change. Evolution...
Features, hmmm... I'll go on record as saying first year C6 ZO6 probably:
1) released late
2) just shy of the magic 500hp (marketing! gotta leave something to improve. Also GM evolution first C5 ZO6 = 385hp, next 405 hp. I forsee this pattern laying out again.)
3) Special light weight roof (exotic material: probably carbon fiber like special European version of light weight BMW M3. One dealer said C6 ZO6 photo had a black roof. Hmmm...)
4) Special lightweight wheel package ( duh!)
5) Possibly polycarbonate hatch glass
6) Maybe Carbon fiber hood
7) Titanium exhaust again
8) Hopefully lighter better sport seat
9) Total weight savings around 150 lb
Oh, before I forget,...
10) Aluminum frame rails. Same size, shape, dimensions, and fittings. (drop in replacement to keep production costs low. Just a little thicker to keep strength the same. Weight savings will be minimal, probably between 50 and 100 lbs.
Well that's my guess. We'll see in about 6 months.
-AL
[Modified by HellBent, 7:59 AM 6/5/2004]
Doing the GM math:
(loaded C5 ZO6 = $54,200) - (loaded C5 cpe = $47,988) = $6,212
(loaded C6 ZO6 = $58,800) - (loaded C6 cpe = $52,000) = $6,800
Now figuring in a fudge factor of a grand or two, you get around $60,000 for a new loaded C6 ZO6; give or take some small change. Evolution...
Features, hmmm... I'll go on record as saying first year C6 ZO6 probably:
1) released late
2) just shy of the magic 500hp (marketing! gotta leave something to improve. Also GM evolution first C5 ZO6 = 385hp, next 405 hp. I forsee this pattern laying out again.)
3) Special light weight roof (exotic material: probably carbon fiber like special European version of light weight BMW M3. One dealer said C6 ZO6 photo had a black roof. Hmmm...)
4) Special lightweight wheel package ( duh!)
5) Possibly polycarbonate hatch glass
6) Maybe Carbon fiber hood
7) Titanium exhaust again
8) Hopefully lighter better sport seat
9) Total weight savings around 150 lb
Oh, before I forget,...
10) Aluminum frame rails. Same size, shape, dimensions, and fittings. (drop in replacement to keep production costs low. Just a little thicker to keep strength the same. Weight savings will be minimal, probably between 50 and 100 lbs.
Well that's my guess. We'll see in about 6 months.
-AL
[Modified by HellBent, 7:59 AM 6/5/2004]
#36
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St. Jude Donor '08
They've talked about a true 'king of the hill' for the last several years and I believe this generation Z06 might be it. I'm guessing much more upscale interior and options plus the horsepower and performance. Mid to upper $60's may well be in the cards. Possibly even higher if they really do go after the high end competition.
#37
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Originally Posted by NewCarDealer
They've talked about a true 'king of the hill' for the last several years and I believe this generation Z06 might be it. I'm guessing much more upscale interior and options plus the horsepower and performance. Mid to upper $60's may well be in the cards. Possibly even higher if they really do go after the high end competition.
An interesting example of what happens when price is set too high and cars are produced at a certain planned rate can be seen in the BMW Z4 roadster. That car is selling at $8K or more below MSRP just one year after introduction. This sort of thing isn't usual for the BMW brand. I'm going to sit back and watch for at least a year until things stabilize, regardless of the Z06 MSRP.
#38
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by NewCarDealer
They've talked about a true 'king of the hill' for the last several years and I believe this generation Z06 might be it. I'm guessing much more upscale interior and options plus the horsepower and performance. Mid to upper $60's may well be in the cards. Possibly even higher if they really do go after the high end competition.
I feel like folks have confused the Z06 and the blue devil and created something that is a mix of both in their expectations of the new Z06.
Here's to hoping that GM keeps sane, and keeps the Z06 right on track with its current mission.
#39
Here is what I think GM is thinking. The c6 already has 400hp and the performance is very close to a c5 Z06 once you get all the options Z51 suspension, performance axle, yada yada yada. Basically you'll be right around 50K with those options. There you go there is your price/performance bang for the buck car that sold so many C5 z06's. Basically a fully packaged standard C6 is the replacement for the current Z06. It has slightly less performance than the C5 Z06 but that will give incentive to jump to the bigger ship the C6 Z06. I think with the C6 Z06 GM has decided to create a whole new car in a whole other catagory. Basically a car that will make all 911 C4,C2,Turbo, Viper, NSX, Gallardo, Ford GT, 360, Aston Martin etc buyers have something to think about. The performance will be far superior to that of the above for cheaper then all of the above and with the improved interior and refinment GM is hoping to capture a whole new set of European buyers who previously wouldn't buy a corvette at all. With so much performance and not such a huge gap in refinement it will make the car difficult to ignore. For that reason GM would't be scared to price it far above the standard c6.
Figure the previous audiance that bought 10,000 of GM's C5 Z06's per year accounted for 25% of production. Well now they are making 20% Z06's so that leaves 8000 cars per year to buy. Figure that at least 40% of the previous z06 owners per year will opt to buy the Z06 at the higher price. That will sell half of their Z06's. So now they are left with 4000 cars to sell to a new audiance. Since we're talking about a mid 11 second track monster cheaper than a Viper with a hell of a lot more refinement, nimbleness, smaller roadfeel etc (thet things that deteour euro buyers from a burly Viper). I think scrapping up 4000 buyers to pay $70,000 for the biggest performance bargain on the planet is hardly difficult. The ZR1 was a bad example because it was today's equivalent of $90,000. The ZR1 power added lots of weight so overall the straight line performance was much better but only by about the same difference as a regular c5 and C5 Z06. Handling was from what I understand marginally better or even worse than a standard C4. There was also hardly if any body changes to show where your extra $25,000 went. And ultimately the car was still VERY VERY crude by european standards and tottaly failed to capture the high dollor buyers. Also consider that the Supra Twin Turbo was not far off the pace of the ZR1 for a lot less money (almost half) and it absolutely annilalated that car in track tests. In handling tests the other *** cars like VR4,300ZXTT,RX7TT were all as good or better track cars than the ZR1 for 1/2 the money. Most were only 85hp shy of the ZR1 and all of them had a way better and more refined interior. The car was basically doomed from the start. Nothing except 25% more power to justify paying almost double to a slury of other cars that packed beter feel, better handling, better braking, far better interior and refinement (and in the masses opinion better looks).
Now the C6 Z06 will not have anything in it's price range to challenge it on any aspect even at $70,000. It's basically tottaly alone. IT will surpass the viper in all aspects of performance but will do so with a better interior, more refinement, more nimbleness and instill more driver confidence. Lets not forget it will look drastically different than the C6 (Showing buyers where their extra dollors go). Any premium segment sports car buyers can buy what a 330hp potato boat porsche for $70,000 that can be argued either way on looks and refinement? Probably the masses would say the C6 Z06 is a LOT better looking. I think finding 4-5000 buyers by pulling a few hundred from the viper crowd, thousand from the porsche crowd, etc will not be hard at all.
Also consider that the C5 Z06 is hardly different than the C5. Basically same car inside and out minor a few cheap changes. Shocks, Wheels, different head/valve train/pistons but same engine. Changes in gearing. Different exhaust. Thats about it. Its doubtfull the Z06 costs them very much more to produce in a factory environment then a regular C5 manual. Yet they still price it quite a bit more. The new Z06 will have a completely different engine from the ground up. Rumors of a sophisticated lubrication system. Rumors of possibly different frame material, all different body pannels with more expensive composites. Huge brakes (and not just a minor change like the z06) but rather multi-piston non floating Brembo's. Also an absolutely new class of performance that will now be in the catagory of the ultra suave supercars such as Murcialago, Ford GT, 360 CS, GT2 will obviously be worth taxing your money.
Figure at least $70,000. My guess is possibly $69,500 or something to keep your mind in the 6x range. Also you can gurantee that the first year of Z06's will sell for thousands over MSRP. You will be very lucky to get out of the door for under $85,000 after tax, mark up, lux tax, registration etc.
Figure the previous audiance that bought 10,000 of GM's C5 Z06's per year accounted for 25% of production. Well now they are making 20% Z06's so that leaves 8000 cars per year to buy. Figure that at least 40% of the previous z06 owners per year will opt to buy the Z06 at the higher price. That will sell half of their Z06's. So now they are left with 4000 cars to sell to a new audiance. Since we're talking about a mid 11 second track monster cheaper than a Viper with a hell of a lot more refinement, nimbleness, smaller roadfeel etc (thet things that deteour euro buyers from a burly Viper). I think scrapping up 4000 buyers to pay $70,000 for the biggest performance bargain on the planet is hardly difficult. The ZR1 was a bad example because it was today's equivalent of $90,000. The ZR1 power added lots of weight so overall the straight line performance was much better but only by about the same difference as a regular c5 and C5 Z06. Handling was from what I understand marginally better or even worse than a standard C4. There was also hardly if any body changes to show where your extra $25,000 went. And ultimately the car was still VERY VERY crude by european standards and tottaly failed to capture the high dollor buyers. Also consider that the Supra Twin Turbo was not far off the pace of the ZR1 for a lot less money (almost half) and it absolutely annilalated that car in track tests. In handling tests the other *** cars like VR4,300ZXTT,RX7TT were all as good or better track cars than the ZR1 for 1/2 the money. Most were only 85hp shy of the ZR1 and all of them had a way better and more refined interior. The car was basically doomed from the start. Nothing except 25% more power to justify paying almost double to a slury of other cars that packed beter feel, better handling, better braking, far better interior and refinement (and in the masses opinion better looks).
Now the C6 Z06 will not have anything in it's price range to challenge it on any aspect even at $70,000. It's basically tottaly alone. IT will surpass the viper in all aspects of performance but will do so with a better interior, more refinement, more nimbleness and instill more driver confidence. Lets not forget it will look drastically different than the C6 (Showing buyers where their extra dollors go). Any premium segment sports car buyers can buy what a 330hp potato boat porsche for $70,000 that can be argued either way on looks and refinement? Probably the masses would say the C6 Z06 is a LOT better looking. I think finding 4-5000 buyers by pulling a few hundred from the viper crowd, thousand from the porsche crowd, etc will not be hard at all.
Also consider that the C5 Z06 is hardly different than the C5. Basically same car inside and out minor a few cheap changes. Shocks, Wheels, different head/valve train/pistons but same engine. Changes in gearing. Different exhaust. Thats about it. Its doubtfull the Z06 costs them very much more to produce in a factory environment then a regular C5 manual. Yet they still price it quite a bit more. The new Z06 will have a completely different engine from the ground up. Rumors of a sophisticated lubrication system. Rumors of possibly different frame material, all different body pannels with more expensive composites. Huge brakes (and not just a minor change like the z06) but rather multi-piston non floating Brembo's. Also an absolutely new class of performance that will now be in the catagory of the ultra suave supercars such as Murcialago, Ford GT, 360 CS, GT2 will obviously be worth taxing your money.
Figure at least $70,000. My guess is possibly $69,500 or something to keep your mind in the 6x range. Also you can gurantee that the first year of Z06's will sell for thousands over MSRP. You will be very lucky to get out of the door for under $85,000 after tax, mark up, lux tax, registration etc.
Last edited by Z06Kal; 08-23-2004 at 11:59 AM.