Can you elaborate more. on this setup. How much boost were you making and hp?

 

Sorry to hear about your motor. I have been following your car on here since I bought mine. 600rwhp with great driveabilty for less than $6,000 was the reason I was leaning towards the A&A kit. Now I'm not so sure about it.

30K miles isn't really that much even when driven hard if maintained properly. I don't wanna have to rebuild in less than two years after install. Of course every case is different but this is a legitimate concern. Perhaps the more reliable H/C package would be a better option for the long term even if I have to settle for 500rwhp.

If I were you I would drop in the 402 rotating assembly and upgrade the blower and call it a day. Good luck Sam

 

For what its worth I have little doubt I could destroy a 500WHP heads/cam car driving this same way. Do a quick search on how many heads/cam and cam only setups have broken valvesprings, timing chains, spun rod bearings, or failed through some other method.
I don't know if I mentioned this or not, but my first car blew 4 engines, broke 4 transmissions, a rear differential, a halfshaft, 3 power steering pumps, etc etc... The first engine I blew on that car was a stock motor with bolt ons. I held the gas to the floor in 5th gear and drove the car at top speed for about 2 miles; the moment I took my foot off the gas I realized I had spun a rod bearing.

You drive ANYTHING hard enough, it will break. Even a stock car. This failure in no way shape or form represents the typical reliability of a supercharged car.

 

Sam's right, even a H/C car can break, crack, or bend parts. Hell, even stock cars off the show room floor have had engine troubles. It can happen, these motors are in fact mechanical machines, and can and will break at some point in time. Now how you maintain your motor and hammer (or not) on it will vastely help determine it's longivity.

Now when it comes to power adders or other aftermarket parts, and installing them on a stock motored car, you're taking a chance. Adding a power adder like a supercharger to a motor that wasn't designed or built for it, you're relying on your tune to keep you out of trouble. It's just a chance you have to take if you want a lot more power out of the stock engine. The bad thing is that boost is addictive, or the power it makes is anyway. Which causes most of us to want to keep pushing the saftey zone a little. I'm willing to bet that a stock motored car with an A&A kit and a very conservative tune producing around 500-540rwhp should last a long long time. The thing is, there's usually not that many people that want to just stop there, they want to keep adding more and more power. Either that, or they end up getting bored and moving to another car or project. That's probably why you don't hear about people owning a 500rwhp supercharged Corvette with stock motor for 100k miles.

And just throwing in a crank to make a 402 and upgrading the blower, I wish it was that easy. But now you have to start thinking of a much larger fuel system than just a BAP, 60lb injectors and stock fuel pump. Also you'll have to deal with other issues like belt slip, much sticker tires, drivetrain upgrades like built half shafts, DTE brace, big clutch, possibly building up the transmission, and the list goes on. The old saying, "you've got to pay to play" comes to mind. And the more power your trying to make the more $$$ its going to be to get there.

Remember this saying if you haven't already heard it before...

You can only have two of the following:
Fast
Cheap
Reliable

 

I am well aware of a motor's limitations. I also came from high hp imports that took years of 20+psi on pump gas and stock blocks. Luckily I had 4G63s that were stouter than EJ20/25 open deck blocks. I don't see how you can compare a glass Subaru tranny to your C6 counterpart.

Even driven hard daily, I don't feel you shouldn't expect a failure at 10psi and 30K miles. I have done many searches on the H/C reliabilty vs F/I. I want FI for the stock like driveabilty. I can see the motor letting go at the end of the Texas mile, but not at the rev limiter in 2nd gear.

 

Well, think what you want, the reality of it is that there have been not one, but several bone stock C6s that broke with less than 10 thousand miles on the race track and on the Autobahn. There is a guy on the C6 Tech/Performance forum right now with a nearly new C6 Z06 in france being asked 36,000 EUROS for a new engine by his dealership; his engine let go for no appearent reason; under that reasoning I think none of us should buy these cars, seeing as they can break that easily, right? Conversely, if you ask around on the C5 forum you will find people with 100,000+ miles on boost. So I guess the cars run for ever? Which one is it? Its all in how you use it.
Give me ANY motor and a place where I can drive it as hard as I want without getting arrested for it, and I'll bet you money it breaks by the end of the day. Pointing out that it broke when I hit the rev limiter in 2nd gear disregards the fact that just a month ago I had the car doing over 200 miles an hour, and it has been driven to over 170MPH more times than I can count. I've also hit the rev limiter many, many times. Either something unusual went wrong that day, or the engine just had enough at 65000 miles. Either way you can't make it sound like this thing was so fragile that the day I hit redline it popped; I assure you this was not the case.
I'd gladly turn my car into a Heads/Cam job to illustrate my point, but honestly after daily driving with 600WHP for over a year the power a H/C car makes would just be too disappointing. If you can be happy with 500WHP, by all means do that. If you can be happy with 360 / 380WHP then do that instead; it will be even more reliable. Ultimately we all gamble a little bit when we try to do something the engine was not designed to do, but everything breaks sooner or later no matter what you do.

Oh and BTW only the first engine I broke on my Subaru was an EJ205 open block. The second one was a semi closed deck EJ207, the 3rd was that + forged pistons, race bearings, ARP head studs, etc. The 4rth was also a race motor... It was all supposed to "last a long long time". They averaged 10K. One of them didn't even last 5,000 miles untll I did a long pull up a hill.

 

You're right. So when you do go forced induction, keep it under 115 (top of third) so that your not ever in sustained boost in 4th or 5th gears. Don't take it to the track and bang through the gears taking it to redline 6600rpm. Oh and make sure you keep the stock run flats on, that way there's virtually no load on the drivetrain or engine under acceleration.

Now then, yes, then you can get an exceptional amount of miles out of your supercharged C6 Corvette.

 

I agree with most of what you're saying and I'm not sure I would be happy with 500. I have the feeling we have very similar driving habits and I was just expecting more out of the LS2. I would expect clutch/rear end issues however. I want to spend the least amount now without having to spend much more later which is in direct oppostion of going fast unfortunately.

 

I take it back, there is one way to go really really fast, but with not a lot of money at all considering. Buy a 1000cc sport bike. Cost only 10-12k brand new and would equal a 800+rwhp vette.

Otherwise, get a supercharger kit, and have it tuned conservatively. And while enjoying the power, start saving well ahead of time for a forged bottomend. That way when something does happen you won't be caught off guard.

 

First Off...Welcome Back

I agree with Doug from ECS.....install the essential parts that an FI build should have, Pistons-Rods/bolts-Blower Cam to get the most bang for buck. You said it yourself, you can blow any motor....save your money and keep enjoying your seat time. You can always go bigger but like Brian said above, when you do there's always more parts to support that

 

well, how far have you gotten in tearing down the motor??

 

Then there's a member with F/I. He listed it here for sale with over 100k.
It's all in the tune and how it's driven and maintained!
You can break something if you work at it. It would take a lot more than your list to make it bullet proof for Sam I have only 15k
on my A&A kit! It's not the problem.

 

Whats the price of our engine? $6,350.00 http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com...html?item=1715

Comp/EPP Cam $389.99 http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com....html?item=679

Comp Timing Chain Assembly $179.95 http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com...html?item=1434

Comp lifters $246.39
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com....html?item=521

Cam degreed in, rings file fitted, front covers, valley cover, lifter guides - Easily several more hundred dollars.

Now I am not saying the Texas Speed engine isn't a good deal, what I am saying is there is more that comes with our engine, than with there's, so you can't make an exact comparison in prices.

Thanks. Bob

 

Not a bad price but I think they are basically the same. Heres a long block that includes everything you are PLUS oil pump, AND EVEN HEADS! im sure if you were to delete those parts he price would be the same as yours in fact probably cheaper.

ANY reputable shop will degree in a cam, file fit rings, line hone, bore hone with deck plates etc. If they dont I wouldnt even consider dealing with them.
http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...d=824&catid=85

Very good price though and like I said one in the same. Who does all your machine work?

 

Lingenfelter's does all of our machine work. Thanks. Bob

 

Forget about Texas Speed then: I can get a longblock, shipped, fully assembled with my stock heads resurfaced and redone with dual valve springs for less than that from Late Model Engines. It includes an oil pump and a blower cam too.
I'm sure you guys do excellent work, but I can't justify the price difference.
Here are the details:
Shortblock:
LS2 402 cu. in. Balanced, blue printed and assembled short block.
GM LS2 aluminum block, Callies 4340 4.0" stroke crankshaft
w/indexed & trued journals), Callies 6.125" H beam rods rods,
Wiseco 4.005" forged FI pistons w/tool steel wrist pins & anti
friction coating on skirts), Total Seal stainless chrom rings .047
.047 3mm rings, Clevite MS2199 H main brgs, Clevite CB663 H
rod brgs, Dura Bond cam brgs, ARP main studs, all oil galley plugs
& dowel pins.
Custom Blower Cam
LS1 cam retainer plate
Roll master double roller timing chain set w/ torington bearing &
nitrided gears.
Melling 10295 high pressure, coated oil pump/ ported
LS 2nd design ARP Pro Series 12pt. head stud kit for late model blocks
LS7 GM LS7 hydraulic roller lifters
Lifter Tray & Bolts LS1 Lifter Tray & Bolts
GM MLS head gaskets

Heads:
Clean and inspect cylinder heads
lap and set valves lap valves and set spring pressures
surface heads CC & surface cylinder heads
springs Dual valve springs w/titanium retainers, amchined locks &
locators, Viton valve seals
Manley 7.4 Manley 1 piece chromoly push rods 7.400" x 5/16 x .080" wall
assemble longblock assemble complete longblock ( degree cam, check P to V, install heads, set up valve train)

 

Wow sounds like a great deal. Research all your options though before making the final decision. there are pros and cons to all. Sounds like stellar deal though

 

Update: heads are out. The piston rings look OK as far as I can tell... HOWEVER, Piston #3 is split right down the middle with two pieces missing . Those must be the pieces that smashed the plug.




Most pieces are gone. Not sure if the head is OK or not.




The piston is light colored hinting that it might have been running lean? I am going to investigate the possibility of a partial clog on that injector. The head took a few hits from the missing pieces, but nothing bad. It looks salvegeable.
Right now I am thinking it went lean and detonated... All exhaust valves are white, which reinforces that idea (cylinder number 1 here)...



Lean or not, that piston looks like it was hit by a hammer. I don't think this was a simple wear and tear failure; I think something happened with the fuel pressure, the injector, or the car went lean because it was cold out or for any other reason, and a large knock event took it out.

Thoughts?
If the heads need to be replaced, what is the cheapest aftermarket head I could bolt on?

 

Sorry about Your mishap,,,,I'm supercharged also,,,,but like They say,"When You play,You have to be ready to pay"!

Good luck with it!

 

l s 3

Keep in mind cheapest isnt always the best value.