Looking to SPRAY!
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,389
Likes: 10
From: Jacksonville FL
A lot of shops would just ruin motors until they figured out how to do it correctly so I appreciate that you don't.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,600
Likes: 8
From: TEXAS
Its funny how people can misconstrue what someone types.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,389
Likes: 10
From: Jacksonville FL
Here at EnglandGreen we do not install Nitrous Oxide systems, and we always get asked why. Here are some of the reasons.
1. It is not "magic horsepower" - just part time forced induction.
2. The attitude towards N2O systems by potential owners always leave me
as they "just want a 100 shot" or "juice" or "spray"
3. No one ever seems to want to approach N2O as any other forced induction system - with proper fueling, tuning and cooling.
4. Cost. This is the big one - everyone thinks that a nitrous oxide system is cheap horsepower. Think again...
We installed headers, CAI & cam for a C5 customer. Car made 430rwhp with stock heads & intake. He wanted a nitrous oxide system, and since we do not install N2O systems, he went to another Tuner that had "a deal" on a "100 shot" N2O system for $1000 installed. Well, with the N2O kit, kit installation, timing twister, window switch, AFR kill switch, wideband AF meter, bottle heater - he then brought it to us to install 60lb injectors, BAP and a full dyno tune. At this point, he was in the hole for $3900. And after all that - when I tuned it on the dyno - the timing twister did not do its thing and the car ran full 26 degrees of timing instead of the 16 degrees of timing it was supposed to retard to, under spray...
And then there were all the invasive wiring taps and connections everywhere, the fuel leak and so on. Scary...
Cheap horsepower? I think not.
I know a lot of folks run N2O systems safely and reliably - but we will stick to superchargers and turbochargers. Full time forced induction works for us. Good luck in your endeavors.
Stephen
1. It is not "magic horsepower" - just part time forced induction.
2. The attitude towards N2O systems by potential owners always leave me
as they "just want a 100 shot" or "juice" or "spray"3. No one ever seems to want to approach N2O as any other forced induction system - with proper fueling, tuning and cooling.
4. Cost. This is the big one - everyone thinks that a nitrous oxide system is cheap horsepower. Think again...
We installed headers, CAI & cam for a C5 customer. Car made 430rwhp with stock heads & intake. He wanted a nitrous oxide system, and since we do not install N2O systems, he went to another Tuner that had "a deal" on a "100 shot" N2O system for $1000 installed. Well, with the N2O kit, kit installation, timing twister, window switch, AFR kill switch, wideband AF meter, bottle heater - he then brought it to us to install 60lb injectors, BAP and a full dyno tune. At this point, he was in the hole for $3900. And after all that - when I tuned it on the dyno - the timing twister did not do its thing and the car ran full 26 degrees of timing instead of the 16 degrees of timing it was supposed to retard to, under spray...
And then there were all the invasive wiring taps and connections everywhere, the fuel leak and so on. Scary...
Cheap horsepower? I think not.
I know a lot of folks run N2O systems safely and reliably - but we will stick to superchargers and turbochargers. Full time forced induction works for us. Good luck in your endeavors.
Stephen
In reasons 3 and 4 he used the terms no one and every one instead of most people, which leads me to believe he only has encountered one type of customer. I didn't quote but did read that after it had a problem while he was tuning it, I wasn't spraying anything. Sounds like not wanting to take responsibility, but since the customer was using two shops (mistake) maybe they had agreed on that beforehand. It dosen't sound like anyone checked to see if the timing tuner was pulling timing prior to spraying, but maybe he forgot to mention that.
I understand caveat emptor, so construe at your own risk.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,646
Likes: 2
bro, got with a supercharger. I do not have a "blower" cam either, nor do a lot of SC guys here.. NoS- hassle of filling it up, it running out at the wrong time.. if you go SC you have room to grow and it is already there.. $85 pulley and more boost!
As posted a killer safe NOS setup can be expensive, little room to grow, all the hassles..
As posted a killer safe NOS setup can be expensive, little room to grow, all the hassles..
Last edited by TrenAman; Mar 27, 2010 at 03:43 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 50
From: hopatcong nj
bro, got with a supercharger. I do not have a "blower" cam either, nor do a lot of SC guys here.. NoS- hassle of filling it up, it running out at the wrong time.. if you go SC you have room to grow and it is already there.. $85 pulley and more boost!
As posted a killer safe NOS setup can be expensive, little room to grow, all the hassles..
As posted a killer safe NOS setup can be expensive, little room to grow, all the hassles..
blower cars are dyno queens, put then on the track and unless
they are race only, they suck, plenty of 800 rwhp blower cars still
running in the 130's
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,555
Likes: 1,255
From: Saint Albans, WV
Racer
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 477
Likes: 1
From: Puerto Rico
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 50
From: hopatcong nj
it was island drag stip, no window switch, i told him not to spray it
i was there when it happened
Supporting Tuner
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 51,896
Likes: 39
From: ================== Houston, Texas www.englandgreen.com ================== Necessary Evil™ __________
CI 6-7-8-9-10 Veteran
St. Jude Donor '05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14
Let me clarify : EnglandGreen does not install or tune nitrous oxide systems. Period.
Our cam customer wanted N2O, so he went to another shop for the install and came back to us for the dyno pulls with air fuel and to verify that the timing twister was working etc. We did no N2O tuning - and as MPM IV said - we do not learn on customer cars.
Our cam customer knows us very well and we made it clear that we would do no N2O tuning on his car - nor would we take any responsibility if his car self destructed. He was well aware of that and happily signed our disclaimer.
My point, though somewhat now rather belabored, was that N2O systems are not cheap nor are they without risks if electronics fail. And really that was the thrust of my post.
Stephen
Our cam customer wanted N2O, so he went to another shop for the install and came back to us for the dyno pulls with air fuel and to verify that the timing twister was working etc. We did no N2O tuning - and as MPM IV said - we do not learn on customer cars.
Our cam customer knows us very well and we made it clear that we would do no N2O tuning on his car - nor would we take any responsibility if his car self destructed. He was well aware of that and happily signed our disclaimer.
My point, though somewhat now rather belabored, was that N2O systems are not cheap nor are they without risks if electronics fail. And really that was the thrust of my post.
Stephen
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 50
From: hopatcong nj
Let me clarify : EnglandGreen does not install or tune nitrous oxide systems. Period.
Our cam customer wanted N2O, so he went to another shop for the install and came back to us for the dyno pulls with air fuel and to verify that the timing twister was working etc. We did no N2O tuning - and as MPM IV said - we do not learn on customer cars.
Our cam customer knows us very well and we made it clear that we would do no N2O tuning on his car - nor would we take any responsibility if his car self destructed. He was well aware of that and happily signed our disclaimer.
My point, though somewhat now rather belabored, was that N2O systems are not cheap nor are they without risks if electronics fail. And really that was the thrust of my post.
Stephen
Our cam customer wanted N2O, so he went to another shop for the install and came back to us for the dyno pulls with air fuel and to verify that the timing twister was working etc. We did no N2O tuning - and as MPM IV said - we do not learn on customer cars.
Our cam customer knows us very well and we made it clear that we would do no N2O tuning on his car - nor would we take any responsibility if his car self destructed. He was well aware of that and happily signed our disclaimer.
My point, though somewhat now rather belabored, was that N2O systems are not cheap nor are they without risks if electronics fail. And really that was the thrust of my post.
Stephen
car??? they all are electronic controled now of day's
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
From: Pasadena Maryland
Lot's of good info.
I was told after the install of my cam (at ECS)....that is was not recommended for me to add a blower.. I should call and ask why.
Tren: What kind of cam did you have at the time of your blower install?
Is anyone else running a more aggressive (non blower cam) with their S/C setup?
I was told after the install of my cam (at ECS)....that is was not recommended for me to add a blower.. I should call and ask why.
Tren: What kind of cam did you have at the time of your blower install?
Is anyone else running a more aggressive (non blower cam) with their S/C setup?
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 66
Likes: 1
$3900 what a rip off, 500 for a wet kit, upgrade fuel system (BAP), pull timing via the IAT(relay and switch to -40 deg). Very simple and cheap you dont need all the BS that is sometimes listed (or **** factor), run a afr gauge in ur car with FI or spray upgrade the fuel system get your tuner to check the afr and pull timing accordingly and its done that simple. Seen a 250000km LS1 run over 100 passes with 150 shot and added 15 mph to his traps, added a walbro intank, pulled 6 deg timing and 11.5:1 afr ran like clockwork. Its great stuff to try and put down or disagree to install something( a gas of all things) so effective and simple has me beat.
As for cam for a blower you can run a blower with any cam it will just add x amount of hp to your current 485, thing is do you want to keep tyres on your car, wanna keep your licence, blowers are good at ruining both of these from personal experience, nos can be used sparingly, the best things in life are in small(big) doses
As for cam for a blower you can run a blower with any cam it will just add x amount of hp to your current 485, thing is do you want to keep tyres on your car, wanna keep your licence, blowers are good at ruining both of these from personal experience, nos can be used sparingly, the best things in life are in small(big) doses
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 8,827
Likes: 10
WOW! SO MUCH BS over a simple question..
100 shot will be fine.. Anything up to the standard 150 shot is FINE on these motors! Even without a tune (generally speaking assuming good gas)!
I prefer the NX kits over all others. I see no reason to spend the extra money for the NANO. I would advise you to install a window switch just in case you don't know what you're doing or if you miss a shift!
Kit should be anywhere from 600-$1,100 bucks depending on options (CF Bottle, progressive controller, etc...) and the install should be about half of that....
Good luck and let us know how it turns out!
100 shot will be fine.. Anything up to the standard 150 shot is FINE on these motors! Even without a tune (generally speaking assuming good gas)!
I prefer the NX kits over all others. I see no reason to spend the extra money for the NANO. I would advise you to install a window switch just in case you don't know what you're doing or if you miss a shift!
Kit should be anywhere from 600-$1,100 bucks depending on options (CF Bottle, progressive controller, etc...) and the install should be about half of that....
Good luck and let us know how it turns out!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 50
From: hopatcong nj
WOW! SO MUCH BS over a simple question..
100 shot will be fine.. Anything up to the standard 150 shot is FINE on these motors! Even without a tune (generally speaking assuming good gas)!
I prefer the NX kits over all others. I see no reason to spend the extra money for the NANO. I would advise you to install a window switch just in case you don't know what you're doing or if you miss a shift!
Kit should be anywhere from 600-$1,100 bucks depending on options (CF Bottle, progressive controller, etc...) and the install should be about half of that....
Good luck and let us know how it turns out!
100 shot will be fine.. Anything up to the standard 150 shot is FINE on these motors! Even without a tune (generally speaking assuming good gas)!
I prefer the NX kits over all others. I see no reason to spend the extra money for the NANO. I would advise you to install a window switch just in case you don't know what you're doing or if you miss a shift!
Kit should be anywhere from 600-$1,100 bucks depending on options (CF Bottle, progressive controller, etc...) and the install should be about half of that....
Good luck and let us know how it turns out!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,066
Likes: 21
From: D Block
bro, got with a supercharger. I do not have a "blower" cam either, nor do a lot of SC guys here.. NoS- hassle of filling it up, it running out at the wrong time.. if you go SC you have room to grow and it is already there.. $85 pulley and more boost!
As posted a killer safe NOS setup can be expensive, little room to grow, all the hassles..
As posted a killer safe NOS setup can be expensive, little room to grow, all the hassles..
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,972
Likes: 48
From: NCM Lifetime#2195 Bulverde, Texas 78163
St. Jude Donor '13
I use a wet tnt single nozzle with 75hp jets, got 105 to the wheels. No timing pulled from orrigional tune with camshaft install. Ran several runs at the Texas Mile, NO ISSUES. You will love the added torque from the nitrous. It can be as simple or complex as you want. Mine is a very simple install with no problems. Bottle will last for a long time.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,646
Likes: 2
You don't have a blower cam, but do you have an upgraded cam at all? His dilemma is he already has an upgraded aggressive cam meant for NA, and if he goes with a blower he wasted the 3k (Or whatever) it cost to put it in, and will have to pay the labor again to remove it, or swap it for a blower specific cam.
Last edited by TrenAman; Apr 2, 2010 at 03:46 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,066
Likes: 21
From: D Block
Gotcha, I just wasn't sure if you thought maybe I meant you HAD to have a blower cam, because obviously you don't, but S/Cing on an aggressive cam is counter productive since they are designed for NA builds. ECS told him it wasn't a good idea with the cam he has, my guess is maybe it upped his compression? Excuse my ignorance as I am learning.