JustCruzin

IMO Don't get star struck over the ID injectors. There’s a lot of yada yada. Other shops have been doing this mod for quite some time, no magic to it. Shop around. A matched set is still a matched set without the big price tag. Not saying ID is not a good product just that there are other sources available to check out. But hey, it’s you’re $$$...

DSteck

What you don't know is your worst enemy. Do you do a lot of tuning? FWIW, the "data" offered with other injectors that are modified is either factory data or stolen from Injector Dynamics. Contrary to the horrible misconception that everyone has, voltage offset and short pulse adder DOES change when you modify an injector. Beyond that, ID matches their injectors based on flow rate AND response time. Please find me another supplier that matches injectors on response time and not just flow rate at ONE pressure. You're right though, there is no magic to modifying an injector and machining the tip off. There's also no magic to characterizing them... it just takes very specialized equipment, which only one aftermarket supplier has.

My buddy just finished his 441 LS7 that uses ID850s. The thing idles perfect at stoich with a 1.2ms injector pulse width, and fueling is totally predictable even at idle. Yes, the injectors are expensive, but I'll gladly pay a few hundred more to save myself hours of time fighting MAF and VE inconsistencies. I've used a wide range of huge injectors, and the vast majority suck when they aren't operating in the linear region. Bosch 105s, DW90s, SD80s... All pail in comparison.

user_name

With that being correct it is still a waste of money on most setups. It you know your setup is going to have a seriously choppy idle with some BIG injectors it makes sense to pony up. Otherwise these cheaper Siemens are hard to beat. I do my own tuning, and that's my take on it.

DSteck

I agree with you completely. For NA LS7s, I tend to use LS9 injectors. Up to about 650whp, I encourage people to just use SD60s because they work. Past that though... if you actually NEED a big injector, I recommend people use one that's 100% characterized. My friend is using ID850s because it's a 9.4:1 DCR 441 LS7 with a 25X/26X cam and will run E85. My car has ID1000s because I'm trying to make over 1000whp and want to be able to idle at 650rpm completely stable. If a car can run with SD60s, then they are hard to beat for the cost. If somebody needs more, then be prepared to spend IMO.

SD80s work OK with the Banish data, but they just don't compare to IDs... plus, I think 60mm injectors look tacky as hell.

JustCruzin

Maybe I don’t know squat. With that being said how much does the characteristics change by milling off the diffuser? IDK Bosch is pretty consistent when it comes to QC. I can’t see them changing much by a simple mod to them. By the way, the ID1000, do they actually flow 1000cc and at what psi? From my limited experience in modifying injectors over the years they flow somewhere in the range of 960cc @ 43.5psi. Maybe I’m using the wrong injector to start with. Not trying to bust your nuts but in the real world I don’t think .5ms at idle would not be too hard to tune around, just saying…By the way, you do have nice looking injectors

dmaxcamss

DSteck, I think we're both misunderstanding each other. You stated that the ID850s are a direct swap for the LS3/LS7, which are shorter and use different o-rings. So if I swap out the o-rings to the 48mm since the ID850s have the 34mm o-rings, then all I would need to do is worry about the height of the rail. But since it's more involved lowering the rail than it is to raise it (simply add spacers), then I may just have to eliminate the ID850s all together. I don't see how you could possibly add a spacer to injector to make them longer, it doesn't make sense. They seat inside the intake injector ports and the rail. The only thing that can move is the rail. The actual injector body would have to be longer.

user_name, are the Siemens 83s the same as the Deka, Mototron, Continental, etc. just as they 60s that are always talked about? The plain black injectors? Also, I looked up the Walbro 255s and there's more than 1 offered. Which part number is used in the C6 Vettes? There's 6 listed under Walbro in-tank electric 255 lph fuel pumps.

BADZ, truly, they are extremely tight right now, which is why I can't go with a fuel blown system. Thanks for the offer though. I wish I could afford it.

golfinz, I currently have a BAP and running a big 4.5" pulley and it still makes the boost. I know the meth kit will be useful down the road, but just not in the budget. The BAP isn't gonna work for me, no way around it. I made 600rwhp with the stock motor, I need something that's going to support 700-800 rwhp. The stock pump isn't gonna do it, even with meth and a BAP.

FactoryRaceCar, if I'm going to drop the tank, I might as well do twin Walbros as opposed to the ZO6 pump. Too much work to do a ZO6 pump. I'm trying to get away from the BAP all together and I don't want to use meth at this point as it's not in the budget. The Racetronix wiring harness is something I am considering though.

What brand is SD? Siemens Deka? Also, is an 80 lb. injector, IE: Siemens 83 considered a BIG injector?

If I decided to go the twin in-tank Walbros, which part number pump do I need? What's the part number for the Racetronix wiring harness? What other hardware am I going to need for a complete installation? I wanted to order this stuff today, tomorrow the latest. Thanks.

JustCruzin

[QUOTE=dmaxcamss;1577470332]DSteck, I think we're both misunderstanding each other. You stated that the ID850s are a direct swap for the LS3/LS7, which are shorter and use different o-rings. So if I swap out the o-rings to the 48mm since the ID850s have the 34mm o-rings, then all I would need to do is worry about the height of the rail. But since it's more involved lowering the rail than it is to raise it (simply add spacers), then I may just have to eliminate the ID850s all together. I don't see how you could possibly add a spacer to injector to make them longer, it doesn't make sense. They seat inside the intake injector ports and the rail. The only thing that can move is the rail. The actual injector body would have to be longer.

Nothing new, been doing it for years for the older tpi setups to run the newer Bosch injectors. If needed I never charge extra for them. Maybe I should


I sometimes make them for the bottom or the top of the injector for the added length depending on the app.

dmaxcamss

JustCruzin, oh wow, definitely not what I was thinking. I wouldn't call those spacers by any means, but rather adapters. I know the purpose of them is to "lengthen" an injector, but again, I wouldn't call them spacers. Very nice. Do you know if Siemens makes 80ish lb. injector that's a direct swap for the LS2 (correct height/connector)?

Racetronix

Siemens is coming out with a short 80# injector which when used with adapters will fit in the LS2 w/o having to raise or lower the factory fuel rails. These injectors should be out sometime in the next few months.

dmaxcamss

Racetronix, the next few months is a bit too long. I'm looking to order in the next day or so. I have put the car off for nearly a year, I really don't want to put it off another few months. Does Siemens offer a 80ish lb. injector with at least the correct connector? If not, I'm guessing the only other option is a 80ish lb. injector that will have to have adapters and raise the rail? Is SD which some have mentioned here the Siemens?

JustCruzin

Excuse my referance Spacers, Adapters you know what I mean.

QUOTE=dmaxcamss;1577470912]Do you know if Siemens makes 80ish lb. injector that's a direct swap for the LS2 (correct height/connector)?[/QUOTE]


Post #49

Racetronix

Post #49[/quote]

They do not. They make a USCAR full length injector. The new short 80# will be Minitimer.

Racetronix

They offer a USCAR 80 here:
http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.a...114991&eq=&Tp=

You would have to raise the rails to use these.

dmaxcamss

JustCruzin, my apologies if you took that the wrong way. I wasn't trying to be a smarta$$. I just didn't know such a thing existed and when I was thinking spacer, I was way off from the picture you posted. I learn something new everyday. Thanks.

Racetronix, ok great. I was thinking I was going to have to use adapters and space the rail. So good, they offer a full length 80 lb. injector with the correct connector. Are those the SD80s that people keep referring to? What's the difference? I've seen 80, 83, 85, etc. Also, I'm guessing the link you posted, the injectors aren't going to have the correct lower o-rings. I'm pretty positive on that because I had a set of 60s and the o-rings weren't the right ones.

DSteck

ID1000s flow 1015cc/min at 43.5 psi. ID850s are 885cc/min at 43.5 psi. Not to be mean, but do you even know how voltage offset and short pulse adder data is determined? It has nothing to do with the hardware of the injector and everything to do with the response of the injector to a pulsewidth. Do you actually tune cars with big injectors?

You are mis-understanding the measurements. There's an o-ring at the top and o-ring at the bottom of an injector. The distance between them is 34mm for an LS3/LS7 injector and 48mm for a LS2 injector. The o-rings themselves are 14mm in diameter, and that's pretty typical for every LS injector.

Blown_2001Z06

I want to know more about this $300 twin setup. I'll take 2 please. ~$100 per pump, ~$150 regulator... how are we paying for the rest of the stuff? Not trying to be difficult, but if this is possible I will be doing this tomorrow.

FactoryRaceCar

It's not possible for $300

Racetronix

Some vendors advertise the Siemens FI114991 (aka SD80 etc.) as anywhere between 80-85#. The spec. we list is the true manufacturer's spec. When you place your order simply specify the application in the note box when checking out. We will supply the o-rings for free.

5 Liter Eater

Sure it is Nouman.

It's certainly not on par with a ~$1500 return style conversion setup but its been doing the job for me.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-f...l-pumps-3.html

FactoryRaceCar

Bill I had heard about Machine Work's mod but does it just get you the duals with OEM regulator running all the time or is the second pump boost activated?