e85 vs. 100 oct.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2009
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e85 vs. 100 oct.
So my car is pretty much out of injector at it's current power level and I'm shopping around for new injectors. When looking at fuel system parts, the question always comes up about whether you want to go really big to handle E85/E90/ect. or if you want to just keep the injectors smaller and go with a 100 oct. tune. Either way I'll have a back up 91 octane tune to switch to if needed, but I'd probably run e85 as much as I could and only run 100 oct. occasionally due to cost.
So for people who have run e85, how did you like it? If you stopped using it and switched to another fuel, why did you switch? Did it cause any damage to your stock fuel system? Anything you were surprised by when you started running it after hearing the mostly positive comments about it?
Also, on a stock LS3 with a D-1SC @ 8psi that currently makes 600whp, what kind of power gains would I be looking at between the 2 fuels?
~40whp on 100 oct. from increased timing w/ boost still at 8psi?
~80whp on e85 from increased timing and maybe 10psi?
So for people who have run e85, how did you like it? If you stopped using it and switched to another fuel, why did you switch? Did it cause any damage to your stock fuel system? Anything you were surprised by when you started running it after hearing the mostly positive comments about it?
Also, on a stock LS3 with a D-1SC @ 8psi that currently makes 600whp, what kind of power gains would I be looking at between the 2 fuels?
~40whp on 100 oct. from increased timing w/ boost still at 8psi?
~80whp on e85 from increased timing and maybe 10psi?
Safety Car
Joined: May 2006
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From: St. Louis, MO
Tech Contributor
Gains are possible, but maybe not that high. E85 can be more trouble that it is worth.
If you buy ID injectors, you can go as big as you want with no ill effects. They are huge injectors that still idle perfect. They are just really expensive.
The kick in the pants with E85 is consistency... different stations have different alcohol contents, and even individual stations will vary throughout the year. Your stock pump will be begging for mercy on E85 for sure. It also sucks if you ever have to start your car when it is EXTREMELY cold outside.
If you buy ID injectors, you can go as big as you want with no ill effects. They are huge injectors that still idle perfect. They are just really expensive.
The kick in the pants with E85 is consistency... different stations have different alcohol contents, and even individual stations will vary throughout the year. Your stock pump will be begging for mercy on E85 for sure. It also sucks if you ever have to start your car when it is EXTREMELY cold outside.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,880
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From: 405
If you are gonna spend the money on ID injectors you might as well fork out the money for a full fuel system upgrade as well it just makes perfect sense. I am not a boost a pump fan at all.
And if you are gonna run E85 or 100 octane then I know this isn't a normal putt around car so I'm sure your foot will be going into it. For those concerned about summer/winter blends of E, if you get a 55 gallon drum of it you ALWAYS know what you are geting versus getting it from a pump. E85 in Oklahoma City is $3.09 a gallon so it's an easy choice for me. Everyone will have their own opinion though.
And if you are gonna run E85 or 100 octane then I know this isn't a normal putt around car so I'm sure your foot will be going into it. For those concerned about summer/winter blends of E, if you get a 55 gallon drum of it you ALWAYS know what you are geting versus getting it from a pump. E85 in Oklahoma City is $3.09 a gallon so it's an easy choice for me. Everyone will have their own opinion though.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,706
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From: Valrico Florida
E85 can be a nice upgrade, but like the others say you will need good injectors and I also recommend ID's for FIC 2150's. If you want to go back and forth with pump and E85 or be on the safe side via not finding a good source of E85 you can always have a good tuner add the flex fuel sensor. This is done in the import world..
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,067
Likes: 62
From: Houston Texas
From my research it is worth the hastle to go E85. It burns much cleaner and cooler and of course the 105 octane is the biggest benefit. You will need the test you local station in the winter and add Torco octane if the ethonal level gets into the 70% range.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2009
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E85 out of the pump is a crap shoot but I am yet to hear of a blown engine because of it. E85 is around 110-112 when you buy the 55gallon drums. E85 out of the pump can be as low as E70 depending on location and time of the year. I was going to go the E90 route, cost the same as E85 out of the 55gallon drum.. decided not to.. the drum stuff cost about $1 more a galln but you know you are getting E90 compared to having no idea at the pump.. Again, never heard of a blown engine because of bad E"85"
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2009
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are there drop in pumps that work w/ the stock fuel system that can handle e85? If I can drop a pump in, or just add one in-line plus the big injectors that would be ideal to keep costs down.
on my VW GTI that I built I just ran a stock fuel pump w/ a walbro 225 in line, so I'm interested in how this 'in-line' approach would work on the vette.
on my VW GTI that I built I just ran a stock fuel pump w/ a walbro 225 in line, so I'm interested in how this 'in-line' approach would work on the vette.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,825
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From: LS MO
are there drop in pumps that work w/ the stock fuel system that can handle e85? If I can drop a pump in, or just add one in-line plus the big injectors that would be ideal to keep costs down.
on my VW GTI that I built I just ran a stock fuel pump w/ a walbro 225 in line, so I'm interested in how this 'in-line' approach would work on the vette.
on my VW GTI that I built I just ran a stock fuel pump w/ a walbro 225 in line, so I'm interested in how this 'in-line' approach would work on the vette.
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Drifting
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,880
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From: 405
A 55 gallon drum of E85 here in Oklahoma City is $250, well worth the money to me and like I said earlier you know what you are getting versus the pump. And as far as a Walbro goes, don't do it Wally's suck!! If you are looking at a drop in style pump either get a Deatschwerks or Bosch 044 end of story. You can modify the stock hat if you are willing to drop your driver side tank, and better yet RSI makes a drop in hat that seats 3 pumps which is what I have.
Drifting
Joined: Jan 2009
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Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2009
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There's no way I'm storing 4 55 gallon drums of e85 in my house.
I have a friend who runs our E70 winter blend on his E85 tune and it runs a half point richer... I'm fine with that potential risk if I bought a bad batch of E85 and it ended up closer to E70.
The more info I gather, the better it sounds... the only part I'm nervous about is my fuel pump upgrade. I see all these posts about return style systems having heat issues and just not stop pains in the ***. Isn't there just a single E85 capable pump that directly swaps for the OEM pump and uses the factory lines/fuel rails/returnless system?
I'm not ok with doing more than a drop in replacement fuel pump, so if that won't work on a ~700whp E85 setup, then I may need to reevaluate.
I have a friend who runs our E70 winter blend on his E85 tune and it runs a half point richer... I'm fine with that potential risk if I bought a bad batch of E85 and it ended up closer to E70.
The more info I gather, the better it sounds... the only part I'm nervous about is my fuel pump upgrade. I see all these posts about return style systems having heat issues and just not stop pains in the ***. Isn't there just a single E85 capable pump that directly swaps for the OEM pump and uses the factory lines/fuel rails/returnless system?
I'm not ok with doing more than a drop in replacement fuel pump, so if that won't work on a ~700whp E85 setup, then I may need to reevaluate.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,067
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From: Houston Texas
I just did the math and your paying nearly $5 per gallon. You could simply invest in a five gallon if torco for $150 and add as needed. You can buy a simple test kit and figure out how much octane you need. From what I have read it is only in the winter that you have to be concerned about e70.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,067
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From: Houston Texas
[QUOTE=turbotuner20v;1578044386]
On the z06 forum they have been running stock pumps with no issues (up to 650rwhp) are people with FI having major issues with aftermaket pumps such as the aeromotive
On the z06 forum they have been running stock pumps with no issues (up to 650rwhp) are people with FI having major issues with aftermaket pumps such as the aeromotive
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2009
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on e85? I'd have to imagine even a Z06 pump w/ a boost-a-pump will struggle to supply enough E85 for 650-700whp
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: Houston Texas
I have spoken with Carlos (Quality Motorsports) and he is pretty much the athority on E85 tuning and he never said anything about the z pump being and issue. This was based on N/A, high CR, E85 cars running low to mid 600's rwhp.
Safety Car
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: Dallas/Valley Ranch TEXAS!!!
E85 is the way to go vs 100 or C16..... As far as the blend change you will see little difference between E70 and E85, this is from a year of experimentation. However you should not "skimp" on an E85 fuel system meant for an FI application, E85 and FI are a wonderful combo "if" setup correctly...