Right now on my ZR1 I am running 15-16lbs. I plan on road coursing the car and occasional drag strip. I took it to the strip this past weekend and it was 88 degrees out and I had a mix of 2 gallons 93 and 5 gallons 101 in the tank and we data logged and didn't see that it was knocking. Would adding meth instead of running higher octane be advisable? I don't plan on adding any timing or tuning it for the meth just wanted to add it as a safety cushion and maybe reap some benefits from the cooling factor.

What are your thoughts?

 

Do it

 

Will there be benefits without adding timing?

 

 

cooler temps ... specially since you live in FL... I notice a night and day diff from meth.. you can pull 5 back to back pulls at the strip and be pretty consistent... rather then pull 2 or 3 and start looking time like woah from the heat.

 

Thats what I like to hear plus I am more of a road course guy so I figured that would be nice to prevent detonation. Will the car pick up any power if I don't add timing?

 

there might be someone way smarter for a technical answer on that but in my eyes its really less of a will i GAIN power without timing and more of a, I'll KEEP power as the car stays cooler a lot longer, so you wont lose timing as you beat on the car.

 

can you meth with positive displacement supercharger

 

Yes, you will because without the methanol the IAT's are still high even on the first hit of the day. Using methanol will allow you to have lower IAT's to begin with and the computer will automatically add timing. And of course methanol insures no detonation which pulls timing and methanol creates cooler inlet temps which in turn equals more dense air...

I would install an MAF based kit from alkycontrol. He has one specifically made for PD blowers on Vette's already.

 

ECS has assured me that you can and that they have been doing this for "years upon years"

I am running a tvs2300 on top of my ls3 and I think an ecs alkycontrol kit will be my next mod along with their blower cam!

 

From all my research with pure meth you can. It also looks like the teflon coating is good for 23,000 rpms and 430 degrees. Lingenfelter lists that I am spinning my supercharger at 20,300 so I am pretty close. Also I found that 1 psi = 25 degrees so at my 16lbs my rotors should be seeing 400 degrees. I am not to sure if thats accurate but if it is the meth would definitely help preserve my teflon coating and oil in my supercharger. I am going to call magnuson and whipple tomorrow and speak with them about it.

Yep spoke with Alky control, ECS, and Snow performance and thats what they all suggested. Also wanted to add that when Vengeance Racing tuned my car they zeroed out all the tables that add timing to keep the tune safe. So that aspect of my car adding timing due to cooler temps will not happen. I do see how I am never at a perfect state in the sense of heat due to just getting the cars oil up to operating temps. So if the methanol can keep me at the state of ideal conditions I can see it "picking up" 15-20hp.

Thats what its looking like for me

 

Please keep us posted on what magnuson says...

 

It's no mystery what Magnuson will say.... they don't like meth.

 

And its from everyone spraying windshield washer fluid to masengil douche wash through the blowers calling it "meth".

The word "meth" around the net implies the liquid shot contains some "meth". That is way different than what we say is pure 100% methanol.

So how can a manufacturer control what fluid is used.. easy. Say not to use anything and it gets rid of the idiots.

Said this way. Alcohol(methanol) flashes at 70 degree's. If you mist it into air hotter than 70 degree's it changes into a gas. Once its a gas.. how does that impact clearances on rotors? The answer is it cant.

Now shoot masengil, hydrogen peroxide, rubbing alcohol, peak washer fluid, acetone, xylene, etc... Yeah there are plenty of idiots.. then the blower has to pump a liquid through the rotors and the lamination ***** the bed. Easy. Now the idiot tells the mfg you said we could shoot meth through your blower.

 

Is the masengil used more for octane or more for its cooling effects? I know it helps with the "shrimp boat syndrome".........

 

Just say no to drugs. Meth is not good for you or your ZR1.


Just saying

 

Old saying..

If it smells like fish its a tasty dish... If it smells like cologne.. leave it alone

 

bahahhaa stalking me I see

 

Honestly, Youll need to run nothing but pure 100+ octane in the car, and get a proper ambient air intake in order to keep your ZR1 from really having issues.

Keep an eye out on IAT2, and watch the knock. Go a step or two colder on the plugs for the track, and invest in a good radiator and blower heat exchanger. Also, pull your blower lid off and inspect for debris.

Keep ALL the temps down, with a good octane fuel, and you should be OK. Meth isnt the answer to what you want to do with the car, its much more than that.

Louis

 

I spoke with almost everyone and their mother about Meth. I spoke with Snow performance, Alky Control, ECS, Vengeance, Orion Coatings, Whipple superchargers, and Magnuson Superchargers, and last but not least Eaton superchargers. I am waiting to hear back from Dupont and an university organic chemistry teacher. Talk about covering my bases lmao.

Here is what I've learned. Teflon has an incredibly high melting point of about 620 degrees F. According to Orion Coatings (who coats Whipple rotors) they claim the coating will start to break up when you spin a supercharger at 22,000 rpms or 550 degrees.






I found somewhere that 1psi = 25 degrees Fahrenheit (I could not verify the source). Meaning when I am at say 16psi my rotors should be at 400 degrees Fahrenheit. Whipple also claims that PURE METHANOL injection will not hurt their rotors. I could not verify if Orion Coats the Eaton rotors from Orion themselves nor Eaton. However, the coating Orion uses is DB L-908 which is their own version of Teflon. However they list that it is from Dupont. Eaton and Dupont when googled show many references that they have joint ventures so I am under the assumption that they use the same coating that Whipple uses from Orion, but just do it in house at Eaton.

Magnuson could not verify it would harm their superchargers since they never did testing. Snow says its fine to spray, but seeing as how they are just trying to move a product their opinion doesn't hold up very well. Speaking with ECS and Alky Control who designed the system together they said it is safe as long as your run 100% Methanol. If I am correct it was even Julio from Alky Control that said you cannot run anything else due to it vaporizing in the supercharger itself and increasing pressure on the rotors.

Teflon as a material is resistant to methanol....but hold your horses and read the rest.

From Orion:






Now according to this Methanol itself cannot damage the rotor coatings. However, what will is a liquid being passed through and increasing pressure between the rotor blades. This is why PURE 100% METHANOL must be used. The reason 100% meth is fine is due to its chemical characteristics. Meth has a flash point of 53 degrees Fahrenheit.



So by the time the meth reaches the rotors it should be a complete vapor. I would give it the best chances by mounting the nozzle as close as possible to the backside of the MAF. I also would fine the best misting style nozzle. I also would prefer a nozzle to be mounted on the underside of the intake piping and aim upwards so as to prevent pooling at the bottom of the intake piping.

"One of the potential drawbacks of using high concentrations of methanol (and other alcohols, such as ethanol) in fuel is its corrosivity to some metals, particularly aluminium. Methanol, although a weak acid, attacks the oxide coating that normally protects the aluminum from corrosion" This quote is in reference to using only methanol as a fuel and not as an additive. Also notice how ethanol has the same damaging properties as ethanol? I do not feel this is of a concern since we are all pumping in 10% ethanol into our tanks every day. Also the amount of methanol being sprayed in is very low.

This is according to Snow Performance:
"We do not recommend using 100% methanol. Methanol has a low flash point and can ignite if it spills on the engine. At least 25% water by volume should be used to reduce the risk."

"Methanol has a boiling point of 148F (65C). What happens when a liquid boils? It changes from liquid state to vapor. If there is enough vapor present it can be ignited with a spark, open flame, or spontaneously combustion if it is hot enough. Now, what is the temperature in the typical automotive engine bay? Well because of SAE specs I design all our electronics for 221F (105C). But on an average hot day the typical engine bay temps might be in the range of 150F to 185F. "

I personally wouldn't put the tank in my car and both ECS and Alky Control said not to for safety. The windshield washer tank sits in your side fender on the corvette so it is shielded from the heat of the engine bay. I would also take a precaution and insulate the line going to your intake pipe.


This being said I will run a kit on my ZR1 and run pure methanol as a safety cushion. I will not be adding timing so that in the event I run out of methanol I will not be stuck on the side of the road.


Article about Whipple and Orion:
http://machinedesign.com/article/con...fficiency-0519