I don't deny that there is certainly some truth to that statement. But the bottom line is that at the end of the day the centri systems run cooler and will make far more power. As this is a revolving door and their are lovers and haters on both side or the fence (although we know what side of the fence is faster!) my vote for the pd blower option would go to the heartbeat. Better design in my opinion.

 

Won't argue that a centri "can" make more power. I am not a hater of them at all. It's all about what you want out of the car. Regardless of what you read on forums, the average person doesn't really want or need all that power. They just think they do. Once you have it, half are scared or their cars (with good reason) and the other half are too busy repairing them to enjoy them.
I will be the first to admit that at 780 RWHP, my car sometimes scares me a bit. I can't see myself ever wanting more on a daily driver.
The again, I'm old. Lol

 

Well, you also are spraying meth. Not exactly a fair comparison. While it isn't going to make the IATs drop into the 50's like my old centri setup, it certainly is helping keep the IATs under control.

The links I posted earlier were of basically stock engines with E-Force kits using the standard pulleys, and the results those guys posted seem consistent with each other. I've seen enough E-Force logs to know what they typically do. IATs around the 120-130 degree mark just cruising around seems pretty normal.

I'd take a nice long log and send it to you, but I know that no matter what it shows it won't change your opinion. There isn't some mind-blowing difference that you're looking to see. The thing just controls temps very well during normal driving, keeps rise under WOT to a minimum, and recovers quickly. 115 degree IATs on a 20-110 mph pull in ~75 degree weather is impressive for a PD blower in my opinion.

As for the boost curve thing.... you can call it a "tuned runner", but that just means it's small and designed for lower engine speeds to increase torque in that range (which PD blowers don't really need much help with anyway). I'll give up some low speed velocity for easier breathing at high speed, but that's just me.


I'll have to agree with you on this one.

 

You don't have to try and change my opinion. This tread was started asking about the 2 and all I am saying is that if the op really is going to save money with the eforce as he says, it is a good choice.

Just to answer a few points you made though, from what I can see meth does nothing or close to nothing for iat temps on these blowers.
I wont be able to change your mind either, but I can tell you that I have many dyno logs, from when I was on the stock engine, no meth and less boost, which is what you are comparing to. On multiple dyno runs my IATS were 120- 130. In regular street driving they are anywhere from 110 to 125 depending on the ambient temperatures.

This is a quote from a CTSV heartbeat install that is being pushed hard. More comparable to what I am doing, not just dropping the kit on a stock car.
"After tuning we ended up with a gain of 65rwhp and 82rwtq throughout the rpm range. Boost was at 18.5psi and Iat2 temps were getting up to 155-160 up top causing power to drop off."


The real truth is that unless someone is serious racing the car, all this IAT stuff is just a waste of time. When I first put my eforce on I wasn't into racing or tuning, never monitored IATS, (probably didn't even know what IAT meant) and my car always drove great.

As far as the runner issue, it is not me that wrote that and called it a "tuned runner". Unless I am at the track, my car lives under 5000 rpm. There is just never need for higher. Being an automatic, my transmission thanks me every day for keeping it there.

Last thing I am stating in this thread. Centri / PD is a whole other issue and debate. If the op wants a PD blower, then either one will work and be a blast to drive. My advice on a stockish daily driver is to not monitor or think about IATS and you will never know the difference.

 

Mine is a casual car or for touring,so i think anyone i get would be fine since i don't plan to run it to extremes,just looking for a little more jump.
i am looking for a neat clean factory looking install and both tend to deliver that. the price difference is what i am looking for as well. i can use the savings to put on better braking as well my next endeavor.

 

I also notice the passion of everyone backing the products they went with and tells me they are all good units.

 

For a 100hp gain, I would do a GOOD, custom spec'd head/cam/intake/exhaust combo for about 1/2 the price and make an easy, safe, repeatable 500 rwhp.. Power will always be there and no chance of melting pistons/pushing head gaskets...especially for only 100rwhp gain.. Also no over heating issues with a head/cam combo as there is no intercooler sitting right in front of the radiator.

If stock like drivability is a must, do an A&A or ECS centrifugal kit....

FWIW my buddy did a custom cam in his 2012 GS LS3. Only mods were cam/exhaust/converter.. The car dynoed 495 rwhp and ran 11:00@126 and is daily driveable. Most EForce cars don't run that quick out of the box.

 

I'll mention this just because. Took my car out today and thrashed it in the canyons a little. Temps in the mid-high 70's. My IATs didn't want to get above 100 degrees for the most part. I think I saw 105 as a max. Obviously not a ton of full boost/high rpm situations, but plenty of midrange spurts dipping into boost. If I relaxed and started cruising, temps would drop into the 90's very quickly.

I think real-world examples are more important than dyno logs. Different dyno types (loaded vs. unloaded) in different shops (fan differences), and starting temps and ambient temp are all factors.

As long as my IATs stay out of the zone where timing is pulled via the IAT/spark table, then I'm happy. It it's above that, then I'm losing power. If I can keep the temps are more reasonable levels during normal driving, it means I have a buffer before that happens.

I've never experienced any severe IAT power reduction myself, but I know it's a real issue on some cars. The ZR1 guys definitely have some issues. To ignore it probably isn't the best option, though I'll admit that in most cases it isn't going to hurt anything.

As for the Heartbeat getting to 150+ degrees at 18.5 psi.....there's just no way around the laws of physics, and that's a pretty extreme setup. Since I've seen those kind of temps reported on a standard E-Force kit, I don't think it's all that troubling at that level.

And yeah, the PD vs. centri thing has been so played out. Most of the guys saying go one way or the other have not experienced both styles of system on the same level. I have. As you know, there's a lot more to building a fun street car than peak power numbers.

 

All good info and points my friend.

The reason I say not to even worry about IAT's is that there is no need to pull any timing until at least 130 and if you are not racing the car, you will probably rarely see that high. I personally don't pull any until 140 and even at that its only 1 degree. I start pulling a reasonable amount once into the 160's.

 

Logic ^^^^

 

Not enough of that going around...

I do get a really good laugh when I see heads/cam numbers posted from a blower car.

 

We sound pretty similar....I don't track mine and love the instant feel in the seat of my pants with the PD style. I am not chasing an HP number that some seem to be doing when all they talk about is the peak HP number their system makes. I don't live in the redline zone (where the peak is closer to) when I drive but love the feel and look on a persons face I take out for a drive and do a 30 mph roll on pull. My daughter said it felt like her face was trying to slide off....

But anyway....here was my story.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-f...vs-blower.html

 

i think we are lookingfor the same thing,glad you are happy i think i will be as well,i have the winter as yourself and it is looking like next year will be when i get to feel it 2 to 3 weeks for delivery and i havn't ordered yet.

 

The one thing most don't think of is this : fun to drive. I've had a pretty mean T-trim setup, and I've had a TVS2300 based blower. The TVS blower is just more fun for 99% of the driving I do -- even making 150 rwhp less than the T-trim. Even with a cam and meth (plus a bunch more peak boost), my T-trim car doesn't overtake my TVS car until around 4500 rpm.

Now, if I was racing my car every weekend, I probably would have done another centri build. But for a street car, you're mostly in the <4000 rpm range -- at least I am. I might be giving up 20-30 peak rwhp vs. a typical A&A kit, but I have a ~100 rwtq advantage in the rpm range I drive in most.

Also, I haven't had to have my Magnuson head unit repaired or replaced yet. Had to do that with Vortech. My first T-trim was a POS. They tried to rebuild it twice, but couldn't fix the leak. I eventually broke down and paid for another new head unit. Can't say I was too happy with the customer service on that one. So far, Magnuson is winning the reliability contest for me.

 

Hi
Thanks for the supercharger connection link, i talked with them and got a $7900.00 u.s price on the heartbeat,Just waiting for them to recieve and send it out to me.I think that both would have suited me fine but with the pricing so close together i opted for the Heartbeat,
Thanks to all for the info.

 

i recieved my magnussen heartbeat supercharger, alot quicker than i expected since there were posts on wait times and i thought it would take alot longer,
had it in the box for about a week just looking at it,what a beautiful piece of equipment it is.
Started taking apart my car and following the directions which were spot on and detailed so nicely that even for someone like me who hasn't played with cars for over 25 years had no trouble what so ever with this install, i did have the help of a great mechanic friend of mine, but really i would have had no trouble installing this alone, nice job Magnussen.
All done looks great, having a little trouble with the tuning, it appears to be the wrong tune for my car, but Simon at Magnussen is working hard on it and should hopefully get results early next week.
Took it for a little ride and even with the stock tune this thing goes like hell, can't wait for everything to be sorted and hopefully be able to take it for a ride before it snows.
Thanks to all who chimed in with info on this matter, all was very valuable and i am one happy dude.

 

Congratulations on the new system, and I'm glad you're happy with your choice. While the install can take some time, none of it is very hard. And like you said, the instructions are great.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but be VERY careful if the proper tune is not installed. In fact, I wouldn't drive it at all. Lots of very bad things could happen to your engine. If the stock (OEM) tune is in the car, definitely do not run it. The larger injectors alone could cause the engine damage.

What exactly were you having trouble with tune-wise? I downloaded my stock tune file onto the handheld tuner, then emailed it to Magnuson as per the instructions. When I got the new file back, I flashed the car with it, and all seemed to work as it should. I never ran the car using that tune file, though. I simply read/saved the Magnuson tune with HP Tuners, and flashed the car back to stock. Then I modified the tune to my liking before my install, and re-flashed it using HP Tuners. I only used the SCT tuner to send and receive the files from Magnuson.

 

I too got the stock readings and sent them off to magnussen,i now think my mistake was not putting the new tune in before install although it didnt say i had to,when i tried loading the new tune in, it displayed this program is not for this vehicle, i was then instructed to take a new factory reading but now is showing 2 fault codes both having to do with maf and map sensors.

 

Didnt read every post but im sure this has been said.

The Heartbeat is an overall way better supercharger system. I had the opportunity to talk with the engineer that designed it and everything that went into that unit is based on efficiency. The heartbeat will make more power with lower IAT's than the edelbrock ever will.

My vote hands down would be the heartbeat.

 

Okay.... but I just want to say this again: Do not drive the car with the stock tune file! Very bad idea.

It's possible that Magnuson sent the wrong file back to you. It doesn't matter when you flash the PCM. It can be done before or after the mechanical portion of the install. That's not the problem.

All Magnuson does is take your original tune file and make some changes to various tables. Then they send it back to you, and you load it into the SCT tuner and flash the PCM. But if they accidentally sent you a file from another vehicle, then that would be a problem.

Now, if you really were driving the car with the stock tune file, I'd definitely expect some strange codes to be present. MAP and MAF codes make a lot of sense. With the blower, the PCM is seeing airflow and vacuum/pressure readings that it normally should not with a stock engine. This will set fault codes, so no surprise there.

Let Magnuson work on getting you the correct file. Again.... Do not drive the car until then.