Heartbeat, Being Ordered
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,999
Likes: 1,685
From: Southeast TX
I paid around $600 for my FIC 85# injectors. That injector is what the guy tuning my Vette recommended. That was what he thought would be a good fit with plenty of flow up beyond 700rwhp. I'm at 664 with HB, cam, 81mm pulley, and bolt ons. I have an overdrive crank pulley and bigger cam going in soon. My injectors are fine for that and more. There's really no down side to using a little bigger injector.
Talk to the guy that's going to tune your car and get the injector brand that he recommends.
Talk to the guy that's going to tune your car and get the injector brand that he recommends.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,391
Likes: 23
From: Santa Barbara CA
From your comments and some research, I understand that ls9 will be maxed out much much below 600rwhp. Conclusion is they are no use for me.
Also, the 08 ls3 ECM understands upto 63.5lbs. Do I benefit from the 85lb (calibration, cost, rich fuel )?
I found people happy with an upgrade to 65lbs with injectors not maxed out. If this is true, a set of Fast 65lbs will be 500$ less than IDs.
I will get the IDs if other products will get me in troubles. But saving with no compromise is not bad I guess.
Also, the 08 ls3 ECM understands upto 63.5lbs. Do I benefit from the 85lb (calibration, cost, rich fuel )?
I found people happy with an upgrade to 65lbs with injectors not maxed out. If this is true, a set of Fast 65lbs will be 500$ less than IDs.
I will get the IDs if other products will get me in troubles. But saving with no compromise is not bad I guess.
Also keep in mind how injectors are rated. Our cars have a 4 bar fuel system, but most are rated at 3 bar. So you might buy a "60 lb" injector that actually flows more than your table allows. Then you either live with inaccurate flow data anyway.
Look at what tuners like Dave Steck and Greg Banish recommend. That should probably help make your decision easier.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
I paid around $600 for my FIC 85# injectors. That injector is what the guy tuning my Vette recommended. That was what he thought would be a good fit with plenty of flow up beyond 700rwhp. I'm at 664 with HB, cam, 81mm pulley, and bolt ons. I have an overdrive crank pulley and bigger cam going in soon. My injectors are fine for that and more. There's really no down side to using a little bigger injector.
Talk to the guy that's going to tune your car and get the injector brand that he recommends.
Talk to the guy that's going to tune your car and get the injector brand that he recommends.
Do you run 20V BAP like Streetk14 or 17.5?
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Yes, your ECM is limited on what it will accept for injector flow rate. My prior build was an '08, so I know the drill. The way I made the ID850s work on that car was using the " double stoich AFR" trick. Then you cut injector flow rate in half. It's much easier than scaling the entire tune, and it works. The downside is that you don't get accurate MPG in your DIC, but that's life with a bigger injector in these cars.
Also keep in mind how injectors are rated. Our cars have a 4 bar fuel system, but most are rated at 3 bar. So you might buy a "60 lb" injector that actually flows more than your table allows. Then you either live with inaccurate flow data anyway.
Look at what tuners like Dave Steck and Greg Banish recommend. That should probably help make your decision easier.
Also keep in mind how injectors are rated. Our cars have a 4 bar fuel system, but most are rated at 3 bar. So you might buy a "60 lb" injector that actually flows more than your table allows. Then you either live with inaccurate flow data anyway.
Look at what tuners like Dave Steck and Greg Banish recommend. That should probably help make your decision easier.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,391
Likes: 23
From: Santa Barbara CA
Race Director
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 16,667
Likes: 1,209
From: Raleigh, NC
St. Jude Donor '15
I got tired of repeating it over and over... I'll let you take this one 
I had this bookmarked, so that should get the party started
http://injectordynamics.com/articles...s-but-cheaper/
I had this bookmarked, so that should get the party started
http://injectordynamics.com/articles...s-but-cheaper/
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 7,820
Likes: 411
From: Montreal
St. Jude Donor '13
Yes, your ECM is limited on what it will accept for injector flow rate. My prior build was an '08, so I know the drill. The way I made the ID850s work on that car was using the " double stoich AFR" trick. Then you cut injector flow rate in half. It's much easier than scaling the entire tune, and it works. The downside is that you don't get accurate MPG in your DIC, but that's life with a bigger injector in these cars.
Also keep in mind how injectors are rated. Our cars have a 4 bar fuel system, but most are rated at 3 bar. So you might buy a "60 lb" injector that actually flows more than your table allows. Then you either live with inaccurate flow data anyway.
Look at what tuners like Dave Steck and Greg Banish recommend. That should probably help make your decision easier.
Also keep in mind how injectors are rated. Our cars have a 4 bar fuel system, but most are rated at 3 bar. So you might buy a "60 lb" injector that actually flows more than your table allows. Then you either live with inaccurate flow data anyway.
Look at what tuners like Dave Steck and Greg Banish recommend. That should probably help make your decision easier.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,391
Likes: 23
From: Santa Barbara CA
But I guess the point I was trying to make to the OP was that most of the 60+ lb injectors out there are actually going to max out his flow rate table and he might as well just pony up for a good set with good data like the ID's.
I'm not sure, but I thought there were some SD injectors that had good data. That would be another option if so. Because personally, I won't run anything but Injector Dynamics or a factory injector like the LS9. Just not worth the tuning hassles. I know everyone did it 10 years ago, but I'm not one to live in the past when there are better options.
Race Director
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 16,667
Likes: 1,209
From: Raleigh, NC
St. Jude Donor '15
Greg Banish's DVD's include data for a lot of common Ford Motorsports injectors, and perhaps some others that I can't remember. The problem is people try to use the 60# Ford Motorsports injector data for every 60# injector under the sun... the results aren't so great
Race Director
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 16,667
Likes: 1,209
From: Raleigh, NC
St. Jude Donor '15
Basically stoich being manipulated like that does some weird thing to intake valve temp calculations (they end up really high). 'Steck got HPT to add access to the IVT AFR terms. Cutting them in half cancels out the double stoich thing and makes the IVT calculations go back to normal
Not a huge deal IMO, but I assume there's a reason he went through the trouble of getting HPT to add it
Not a huge deal IMO, but I assume there's a reason he went through the trouble of getting HPT to add it
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,391
Likes: 23
From: Santa Barbara CA
Basically stoich being manipulated like that does some weird thing to intake valve temp calculations (they end up really high). 'Steck got HPT to add access to the IVT AFR terms. Cutting them in half cancels out the double stoich thing and makes the IVT calculations go back to normal
Not a huge deal IMO, but I assume there's a reason he went through the trouble of getting HPT to add it
Not a huge deal IMO, but I assume there's a reason he went through the trouble of getting HPT to add it
Race Director
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 16,667
Likes: 1,209
From: Raleigh, NC
St. Jude Donor '15
Yeah it's fairly new. I'm honestly not sure how much difference it makes either way...
I know some of the transient fueling calcs are based on IVT, but I'm not sure what else is. Pretty much no one has transient fueling right anyways so it's probably not too big a deal
I know some of the transient fueling calcs are based on IVT, but I'm not sure what else is. Pretty much no one has transient fueling right anyways so it's probably not too big a deal
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,977
Likes: 256
From: St. Louis Missouri
If you've tried to call them more than once during normal business hours, I wouldn't give them any business until they answer the phone. Far too many tuners have come and gone in the middle of the night.