Don't forget the added $200.00 for a wide band setup and $s of the sensors, and bung fabrication.

 

To add to this, when I first started tuning there were very few options out there for tuning software & even less training available there were no tuning school classes, no calibrated success classes and nobody did email tunes. HP Tuners was new to the market but their packaging of a scanner & editor program was ahead of its time(LS1edit was the only other option & it didn't come with a scanner) so for me it was getting a $250-350 scanner for free. I used the scanner for 3 weeks before I even altered a fan temp or speed limiter setting.

Once I finally did start tuning & learning, etc it became very rewarding very quickly. I befriended many self tuners and ask questions when I had one and then posted information that I gathered as I went. I can only share my knowledge & the things I've read on the forums for the past 4 or so years but I will say tuning my own vehicles has been one of the most rewarding things I've done.

Tuning is rarely cut and dry and more of an art than science and the tunershops you'll come across spend thousands of hours on the dyno doing R&D work. Nothing is learned in a days time when it comes to tuning anyone that tells you otherwise is probably lying to you. But if you are a hands on person and like that feeling at the end of a mod or build tuning might be right for you if you can dedicate the time to learning how to use the tool. The welding analogy is a very good one as all the books & video's in the world don't make a welder, a steady hand & lots of practice do though.

Its the same with tuning as its all about learning how to use the tool and then practicing. And like welding its always good if you have a teacher that can help you hands on. Places like the tuning school & calibrated success are a great place to start. Companies that also sell starter tunes like ragin' racing can also be a big help since you can compare their tune to your stocker and see what they changed, these will usually get you going in the right direction to build on.

 

Again, I was merely addressing the post above which said...

So are you agreeing with me that novices shouldn't expect a whole lot of support and be prepared for a "steep" learning curve or are you agreeing with foff667 that's HPT is geared towards the "Average Joe"?

I'm saying it's a great piece of software but NOT written OR supported for the average Joe. Anyone marketing it as such should be held accountable for all the problems that follow.

Again, I like the software and am learning more each month. But I'm a stickler for truth in advertising and saying HPT was developed for the Average Joe is really pushing it. Handheld programmers are made for the average Joe. Average Joes WILL have lots of questions regarding tuning and HPT is NOT setup to handle those questions. They support the tool not your tuning ability.

 

4 years ago I was the average Joe with no tuning experience whatsoever, so yes the average Joe can learn how to tune. Take it FWIW but IMO anyone that has the time & willingness to learn can.

There is a learning curve depending on the application some more steep than others but all doable.

-Bill

 

I think those that say it is too difficult to learn how to tune with and its not for the average Joe are just not willing to put forth the time and effort to learn. No good tuning program is easy enough that a monkey can just press buttons and make it work. If you want something like that, go get you one of those handheld tuners.

 

Like I said... there's a basic mode, and an advanced mode. People should take that into consideration.

 

I have to agree.

The same could be said for doing your own income taxes.

For example, when I was in my 20's, I taught myself automotive paint and body work. Was I any good at first? No. But after a while, I got better. In total, I repainted about 20 cars which some came out pretty nice. Do I have the same skills as a professional that does it everyday? Some yes, and others probably not.

The same could be said for Tuning Software. If someone wants to learn it, it takes a time and effort to learn the basics. Learning the theory is important. If you don't want to learn that, I suggest not buying it.

Have some people bought it and found it took too much effort to learn or lost interest? I would think so.

Is the software for the DIY as well as the professional? I think so since there are a number of enthusiast on the HP Forum that are obviously doing it on their own cars. Go out and buy the Greg Banish book for $25 and after reading it, if you still want to buy software, then go for it.

When I got HP Tuners in December, I felt overwhelmed at first. But I kept reading and talking to people. Now I feel at least like I can do it.

 

For those that remember the LS1 Edit and a multitude of Excel spreadsheets to analyze data, now that was not for the average Joe. Most people don't even know what a pivot table is The days of the histogram made life 100X easier. LS1 Edit was horrible at best and talk about ZERO support.

 

Why don't you guys discuss the definition of "the average Joe" and then get back to me. Seems most of you just want to disagree with me even though we are all saying the same thing. HPT (or any laptop tuning) has a steep learning curve. Time is needed to learn the software, patience is needed to avoid costly mistakes, a willingness to invest in learning technical aspects of your vehicle and ECUs is needed. For crying out loud, after doing all that, you're not an Average Joe anymore, are you?

You guys like comparisons, fine. An average Joe can fly an airplane too. Heck, all you need to do is study some books for many hours, get a physical, take some tests that would look like gibberish before you ever read the books, and then go practice some take-offs and landings.

Oh wait, if you did all that AND SURVIVE you wouldn't be an average Joe anymore, you'd be a pilot.

And if you did all the pre-requisites for HPT you'd be a tuner... where's the difference?

 

Please read what I said

Does the average joe learn how to drive a car? yes

Does the average joe learn how to drink from a straw? yes

Can the average joe learn how to tune? yes

 

It's all relative. Let's say the average Joe here is a DIY'er who does his own bolt-ons to his car. He could learn to tune that simple setup without any lengthy training ASSUMING he had a knowledge of EFI and how things operate. He is also not going to do any damage with trial and error if he follows the advice of only changing small things 1 at a time.

If you are not a DIY type of person who is willing to do a little reading then you are not the type of person who is going to "get it."

The average Joe here is not the average dumbass. It involves a laptop and an engine with lots of moving parts. You need a decent foundation of how things operate or you will be lost.

I think the HP Tuners suite is excellent. I can see room for improvement, but it is well thought out and makes things almost as easy as can be.

 

Debating what the definition of the average Joe won't solve anything.

The people on this forum for the most part are at least computer literate. I still recommend joining the HP Tuners forum and getting one of the books on EFI tuning. If you still feel compelled to try it, then you probably will be satisfied with your decision.

 

I thought I was reasonably knowledgeable about EFI until I read Greg Banish's book, Engine Management:Advance tuning. I knew what was happening under the hood, but not why or the interactions of a tune. The more you learn about these systems, the better prepared you are in your quest to become skilled at tuning. Taking one of the leading tuning software packages and learning by trial and error is likely to cause problems without understanding what the outcome to your adjustment in a calibration does.

 

I'll agree that there's a lot going on inside of the average modern ECU, but it's all based on some fairly simple physics. If you passed high school math, you can probably learn how it is applied to your car's ECU. I've shown lots of people a clear "plan of attack" for tuning in my various classes over the years. If you're not afraid to tune a carb, you shouldn't be afraid of EFI either. If you take logical steps, it's really not too bad. You will have to apply yourself a bit, but it's certainly doable.

 

The tuners out there are going to let the Average Joe do a tune, with varying results. They are not a magic tool that makes everyone who buys them into an expert tuner. You can certainly buy one and improve the tune of your car, but it will always take an expert to apply an expert tune.

The really easy to use handheld is not going to give you an expert tune, and most of the time you are going to get a way better tune with HPTuner or EFILive, which makes them well worth the money.

And there is no Corvette tax on the tuners, if anything you might call it American Car Tax or maybe GM tax, I paid the same price to get HPT for my Grand Prix and you will for your Corvette.

 

What do I need to buy to ecu tune my c6 vette?

 

If going the HPtuners route you need a laptop, HPtuners interface, credits, and a wideband