well, last night my uncle and I installed the Dynatech Supermaxx Longtube headers and the B&B Bullets exhaust for my c6. i didnt drive the car home last night because it was raining, so today, on my way home from our shop, im about to stop at a red light and take the car out of gear, when my clutch pedal goes all the way to the floor......

i instantly pulled the E-Brake, thinking that maybe the pedal got stuck on something on the floor of the car. i reached down and pulled the clutch back up. when the light turned green, i pushed the clutch down and tried to shift into 1st gear. the pedal again went all the way to the floor and stayed there, sort of like your brakes would go all the way to the floor if you lost all of your brake fluid.

next thing i know, theres smoke coming from the hood of my car. i jumped out of the car and popped the hood, only to see smoke absolutely engulfing the engine. i didnt know what to do, so i immediately called my uncle with the tow truck to get me out of the busy intersection i was in. about 2 minutes later, flames were shooting from the right hand side of the engine, near the headers. i ran to the Enterprise car lot that was nearby, and put the fire out before it got out of control.

we towed the car back to our shop to figure out what in the name of hell caused this problem. when we installed the headers, x-pipe, and exhaust, we did everything absolultely perfectly (or so we thought). we tripled checked everything for tightness and clearance, and they all seemed to be 100% fine.

there was 1 thing that we missed. along the right side of the engine (if facing the front), there is a clutch cable/hose that runs into the slave cylinder in one end, and to the clutch pedal at the other end. this hose/cable was (apparently) slightly touching the header unit, and it either caught on fire and reptured, or it boiled the transmission fluid, and leaked everywhere on the inside of the engine. the fluid ignited because the headers were so hot, and thats where the flames came from. THANKFULLY, there is no engine damage. i put the fire out just in time. there are a few wire housings that were burnt, but nothing too major.

we called our local dealer and explained this entire situation. he sent us a fax that contained a diagram explaining each part that was on that part of the engine. conclusion? i need a new slave cylinder. he said that it runs about $200.00, but when i compare $200 to what a new engine would have cost me, it doesnt sound that bad.

biggest problem i have, i need to know any specifics on slave cylinders that you guys know about. are they hard to do? has anyone had any type of experience with them before? what exactly will i need to fix this? and has this EVER happened to anyone before? why on earth didnt Dynatech tell me to tie back the clutch cable before firing the engine? they say to tie back the new O2 relays, but nothing about the others.

someone please help me if you can. im totally in the dark here. my uncle is a great mechanic, been in the bussiness for many many years, but he doesnt want to start the slave cylinder work until he knows everything that you guys know. any input here would be greatly appreciated.

thanks
phil

 

i would try replacing the clutch cable, refill it, and put a heat shield on it before replacing the slave cylinder. chances are you just burnt through the cable and dumped the fluid all over the place.

this is the second long tube horror story i've heard. I agree the manufacturers should have said something about the cable and or recommended a heat shield.

 

ill also need new O2 relays, the ones that run at the top of the engine. where to find those?

 

yeah, we thought that too, but apparently the hose goes directly into the slave cylinder. you cant replace the hose without replacing the entire slave cyliner :/ kinda sucks

and i really need to know where to find those O2 relays for the top of the engine. i cant find them on Dynatech's web site, anyone can point me in the right direction?

 

I have a feeling that the slave cylinder on the C6 is very similar to the C5 setup. There the slave cylinder is concentric with the torquetube driveshaft. You will have to separate the bell housing from the engine, just like doing a clutch job. To do this you will have to drop the exhaust system and center tunnel cover, disconnect the control arms in the rear suspension so that you can pull the half shafts out of the differential, disconnect the wires, shift linkage and other stuff that will allow you to drop the rear subframe and tilt the torque tube/differential/transmission assembly enough to pull the whole thing back from the engine. It's not as bad as it sounds, people on the C5 forum have done it on jack stands in the back yard. It requires patience and about 5 hours. The only even slightly tricky part is not to let the engine tilt so much it stresses the firewall. Checkout http://redshift.homestead.com/Drivetrain1.html for pictures and description.

 

Hope you did not void your warentee!

 

Damn, thats a wild story.

 

I was looking for the other thread but cant find it. Anybody remember if the other car that had this happen was also supermax's?

 

Bingo, we have a pattern here with Dynatech Supermaxx headers:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...50&forum_id=74


Good luck to you. And don't be afraid to ask on the C5 board. Some people don't want to beleive it, but the 2 cars are VERY similar and a lot of people on the C5 board have been there done that (like rik99)

 

You can scroll through my picures and see the bradied hose end that goes into the slave cylinder and where it mounts to the torque tube. this is a c5, though im sure its similar.
http://home.comcast.net/~c54daz/CLUTCH_PICS.html

 

Well, I wouldn't go back to the dealer he got the faxes from and ask for warranty work...

 

Glad I went to the dealer to have him install my Kook's and Corsa's.Seems worth it even though he charged me 670.00 ( but he also had to extend the o2 wires since the extensions werent available at that time). Now its no problem when I bring it in for service and I've never had a problem.

 

i still need to know where i can find those O2 extenders. i cant seem to find them on Dynatech's web site

anyone know of anywhere that might have them?

 

Smdio, I was wondering if you have the Z51 package. I heard that some Longtube headers are not compatible for the Z51 because of the extra oil cooler lines??

 

I suppose they figure any mechanic would be smart enough to know you can't let a naked hydraulic hose lay against an extremely hot header. That's sort of basic knowledge.

The hose needs to be moved away from the header, and wrapped with heat reflective insulation where it passes closest to the pipe. Note that this isn't the only thing that needs to be insulated from the heat of the header pipes. Many installations also need a heat shield to protect the starter from being cooked, fuel lines may need to be protected, wiring may need protection, etc.

Because header pipes are thin steel instead of thick cast iron, they run at higher temperature, and tend to radiate much more heat (though there are ceramic coatings which can reduce that), so you need to be very careful you don't let anything that would be harmed by the heat get too close to them without some sort of thermal protection.

Note that thick cast iron manifolds may hold more *heat*, but they do so at a lower temperature, so they radiate less heat to nearby objects. Temperature and heat aren't the same thing. They are related by the mass and heat capacity of the material. Because headers have less mass, they run at a higher temperature. It isn't unusual for the headers of a racing engine to glow red hot under heavy load. Cast iron manifolds typically don't reach such high temperatures.

 

Well said Shopdog!

 

 

when McDonalds was sued by a 67 year old man for serving "too hot coffee", without posting a warning on the cup, was it supposed to be "basic knowledge" that the coffee was SUPPOSED to be hot? of course. did the man win 10 million dollars? yes he did.

the point of the matter is: whether we were to ASSUME everything had to be coated with some sort of heat reflective or heat sensitive tape or coating or not, they didnt say a word about it . had they said ANYTHING in the directions at all about this, we would have taken every precaution. instead, we followed the directions to a T, and made sure we did absolutely anything and everything they told us to do. now, when a $56,000 car lites on fire directly because of an installation error on Dynatech's part, NOT mine, i find it hard to believe you have the odasity to take such a low blow at me and my uncle. thanks for the post, but if you dont have anything nice to say, dont say it at all.

 

Interesting - they also didn't tell you to continue breathing the whole time you did the install. Maybe they just assumed you would do so? I don't mean to flame you, but come on - certain things are basic common sense - and remember - YOU didn't do the install - a licensed mechanic did it - he should know better than to leave a rubber hose for the slave cylinder touching the header pipe. BTW - that MacDonalds moron didn't get 10 million dollars - that settlement was appealed and of course, the real amount was much less. That doesn't make the headlines though.

I'm glad you got the fire put out. Do as shopdog said - coat the line with reflective medium and tie it back from the header.

 

i intend to do that now. i also intend to wrap the headers with heat resistant wrap, which lowers the exterior temperature by up to 60%

and the breathing analogy is a really bad one. my point here is, we did everything that the directions told us to do regarding the header installation. and by the way, the hydrolic hose that ruptured not only WAS NOT touching the header, but it also had a heat reflective wrap around it from the factory. this wrap didnt even burn when the fire started. the temperature got so hot around the hose, that it boiled the fluid inside, and the hose ruptured with a hole the size of about 1 centimeter. that was enough to soak that wrap with fluid and for it to leak onto the header, creating the smoke and thus the fire.

keep in mind that this hose was NOT touching the header AT ALL. it had a good 3-4 inches clearance when we were all done. we made sure nothing was touching at all. however, even though it had a "safe" distance from the header housing, it was still close enough to boil the fluid and rupture the hose. we COULD have tied it back even further from ther header, but when the directions say absolutely nothing about doing that, how can we assume to? Dynatech even gives you individual Adell cushioning clamps to tie back all of your O2 sensors. we used every single clamp that they provided in every single location they told us to put them, and still, they didnt mention anything at all about the clutch line being too close.

and dont forget, im not the only "idiot" that this has happened to. Dynatech is atm looking very hard into this case, bcuz THEY are the ones that messed up here. they designed this system for an automatic, not a 6-speed. future versions of their headers are going to contain another specially designed clamp to hold back this hydrolic hose. so you guys can stop making it seem like i did something wrong here, bcuz im sort of getting annoyed by it