Hello everyone! 2 months ago i purchased my first ever corvette...A 2005 auto c6 with nav, Hud, Z51 perfomance etc. Great car. I was wondering if the vortex rammer is a good buy for $538.00? How much HP and speed will I realistically gain? I'm not buying into the 40+ hp hype that is advertised. Also, will it void my warranty? Also, I'm a little peeved that the GTO has the same motor and hp as our beloved vette. Why do "lesser" cars have our powerplant? Will the 06 Charger 425hp and 06 mustangs be able to take our vette"? i sure hope not!

 

i put mine on yesterday. have not had it on the dyno yet but seat of the pants driving impressions are that it now pulls alot harder above 3000 rpm from 2nd and 3rd gear in my 6 speed. install was easy, took about 2 hours and the pruduct looks very good on. also feels slightly different in 1st at launch.

 

Dyno wont show anyting.

Go to the track. Geeez guys!

 

I posted both before/after dyno graphs and before/after track results in this thread. Long story short, as far as I know, everyone is getting some gain from the Vortex. Some get more, some get less, and the automatics might be benefitting more than the manual tranny cars from what I've seen. On my MN6 I saw 12 RWHP and maybe .1 in the quarter mile. Given some variation in the results, it is my estimation that the Vortex is making the cars run more consistent due to access to cooler air. For example, a car that ran 1/4 mile speeds of 110, 113, 111, and 110 before the Vortex might run 113-114 on all four runs afterward because slightly cooler air may allow for more agressive timing on every run rather than "random" occurrences of knock retard which could ruin a run here and there.

The "greater consistency" hypothesis would also explain why some people are getting .2 to .3 better times in the 1/4 while others are getting .1 or less: it depends on which ends of the spectrum you are comparing. It would also explain why so many people are getting one really good run amongst a bunch of average ones when they go to the track. They run 110 MPH, 111, 109, and then 113 and they say, "Hey, what's with that 113? I got it once (stock) and can't get it back again."

I think what is happening is that these cars are on the borderline for knock retard when they heat soak as they would sitting in line at the track. Most of the time, the car and intake air is hot enough that it causes knock retard (or just causes the computer to pull a little timing back), resulting in mediocre times. Install the Vortex and the few degrees cooler air may be all that is needed to keep you on a more agressive timing curve and get more out of your engine. Some cars may be closer to this borderline than others just due to conditions, auto-versus-manual heat soak differences, and other influences.

Just guesses at this point but it sure would explain a lot of "track phenomenons" I've noticed with these C6's. Intakes like the Vortex might give you more than just less air restriction! I am still quite certain that the Vortex gives no ram air effect whatsoever. I confirmed this with both on-road (at speed) dyno testing and track testing and saw no evidence whatsoever of a ram air effect. I think most of the gain is in being able to get to cooler air (quicker) and the effect that has on engine and PCM logic.

Mike

 

Interesting that Callaway just posted their stock runs as good as yours with the Vortex

 

Really?

They ran a 12.5 at 111 in an Auto with 3.15?

 

Read and their results are at the bottom. Everyone's been telling you to do a repeatability test and run it again with the stock setup.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...2&forum_id=101

 

OK,

If I go thought ALL the trouble to do it on the same night and I my car STILL runs faster with the Vortex what say you then?

I will do it next Friday. I will set it up.

 

I already know the Vortex does give some gain, but it isn't the half second gain you have been quoting. I remember the thread when you first installed the Vortex and tested it. Before the Vortex, you had a best of 12.7 @ 111. After the Vortex, you had the same thing: 12.7 @ 111 but they were much more consistent (see my post above). Before you were doing mostly 13.0 with an occasional (one) good run of 12.7. After the Vortex you were doing 12.7 consistently: you did a bunch of "after" runs and they were all 12.7. What that tells me is that the Vortex is helping you tap into the full potential more often.

When you make statements like "The Vortex gave me a half second" you need to qualify that because when you tested it after the install, you got nothing... or .3 seconds depending on whether you want to compare best-to-best or average-to-average. Now you have Corsa exhaust, your engine is more broken in, you may be launching better (yes, even in an auto), so some people want some repeatability tests.

I'd have to ask you the converse of your question above. If you go to all that trouble and find out that you are running 12.55 with the stock intake and 12.50 with the Vortex, will you think the Vortex was worth it? The Vortex instructions include a tip to remove the MAF screen (which I believe most people do). What if we find out that removing the screen makes more difference than the Vortex? Will the stock intake reclaim some of the Vortex power gain (12 RWHP when I measured it) just because the MAF screen is removed? These things need to be answered before one can make a claim that a cold air intake gave them a half second in the quarter mile.

I own the Vortex and like it. It gave me 12 RWHP and if I'm generous, .1 in the quarter mile. I have nothing against it, but you are not getting a half second gain and if/when you put the stock intake back on and do a repeatability test, you'll find that out in a hurry!

Mike

 

I didn't remove the screen. Mine is still in there.

If my car runs 12.5's at 111 stock I will sell the Vortex.

It won't though. It will run 13's again. I know it because I have run my C6 more times at the track than most people.

 

I have not been to a track - I have an auto that dynoed at 367.5 at the rear wheel with Corsas and a Vortex.

 

You won't know until you try it. Somehow you gained 2 tenths in the last month or so doing absolutely nothing (and with the Vortex in place the whole time). Will you lose that the instant you put the stock intake back on? I doubt it. If you lose a half second from putting the stock intake back on, you'd better check the stock intake for mice nests! There is no intake on this planet that will give you a half second in the quarter mile, period. 2/10 maybe, 3/10 is a stretch, but not a half second.

When you do the test, be sure to do at least 2-3 runs before you go back to stock and then 2-3 runs after you go back to stock. I'd be surprised if your times changed more than about .15 if you compare best run to best run. I also wouldn't be surprised if the times jumped around a lot more with the stock intake on and stayed closer to the best times with the Vortex. I really think that the best thing about the Vortex is that it reduces the run-to-run variability and lets you run each run close to your best while the stock intake causes some runs to be slower than they could be due to factors other than just airflow resistance.

Mike

 

What did it dyno completely stock right before the installs and how much of the difference can be attributed to the Corsas versus the Vortex? I dynoed 338 HP before the Vortex and 350 after.

Mike

 

Different track, different car, different day - nothing there to compare when it comes down to it...

One thing is for sure - when they test something, they have equipment hooked up and in the car to monitor everything from inlet air temps to wheel spin and everything in between - Why?? Because without it, the dyno can mislead if used by itself, as will the track

Not trying to say anything here other than they truly quantify gains by eliminating outside variables

 

Okay, everybody on this forum knows that if there's gonna be a pissing match - count me in.

The vortex claims it get's it's extra horsepower at speed, not on the dyno. Let's consider a couple of factors here.

1) Horsepower shows up in the trap speed. Sure, all else being equal it should show up in the e.t. as well. But e.t.'s are much more variable depending on many factors besides horsepower. Horsepower should always show up as increased trap speed.

2) If the gains show up as speed increases (ram air effect?), then there should be virtually no effect on 60' times, and probably not even in 330' times.

Any thoughts on this?

 

I've been watching both Vortex and the Halltech Stinger threads. Jim from Halltech gave up because his current design was "defeated" by the onboard computer. He didn't get any gains and is pursuing reprogramming as a possible solution. Has to do with the computers response to air/air flow/fuel mixture, etc. etc... What's so special about the Calloway and Vortex that they have not encountered OR were able to overcome this issue? Did they do some "magic" with the computer? If so how much? ($$$) Not saying it can't be done but, tuners can work wonders with small groups ($$$) what about guys like me on a fixed income?

 

Actually, yes. A lot of thoughts. If you check this thread, you'll see my dyno runs in second gear using Road Dyno which dynos the car in gear on the road, at speed. Top of second gear on an MN6 car (base suspension) is just over 85 MPH. Since the low RPM's (~3000 RPM) on the graph indicate about 40 MPH and at 6500 RPM the car is running just over 85 MPH, you would expect to see the torque curves (stock versus Vortex) to diverge with the Vortex gaining more power at higher speed. Simply put, this does not happen. I am 100% certain that there is no measurable ram air effect with the Vortex (and I'm sure none with any other similar intake either).

My "real world" tests at the track bear this out since if I average my runs before and after the Vortex, I come up with about a .1 and 1 MPH gain with the Vortex. I keep stressing though how much more consistent my car is with the Vortex and I think that is key. Before the Vortex for example my speeds were all over the place from 110 to 113.5. After the Vortex, I run at the top end of that range (113.5) on every run. Still, when I look at the 60 foot, 330 foot, 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile times, I see no indication at all that the car is getting greater gains at greater speed. I therefore didn't see any noticeable disparity between my dyno gains and gains in the 1/4 mile.

Mike

 

A good homework assignment. List all the varibles one can encounter at the track and list all the varibles one can encounter at the dyno. Take those two lists and read very carfully and think, go have lunch have a coffee but for God's sake think. If you still think that the track is more accurate get some different coffee.

 

Do the test like we do in medicine. The driver has to be blinded as to the set up. Can't know if he's running the Vortex or stock air filter. Run both ways, at random, several times. If the run is consistently better with one than the other, then we know the answer. That's called a 'double blind study'. If, however, the driver knows how he's running, the results might be affected, even if the driver doesn't knowingly change his technique.

Seems like none of the aftermarket equipment manufacturers properly test their equipment to back up their claims.

 

I returned the Vortex I purchased. I lost 3 HP on the DYNO. I think it was way to much for no gain. Fit and finish was terrible then but I saw that there were modifications for the newest product. I will do the Callaway product this summer.