Just watched Car and Driver TV, they chose C6 over 911. Although the Porsche won in handling, power and bang for the buck went to, C6. Go C6.

 

The Porsche has a poorer HP/weight ratio and generally loses both on roadcourse lap times and skid pad numbers against a Z51 and it WON on handling? It just makes you wonder. Car & Driver must have relatives in Germany....

 

Give the Porsche its due, they will out handle us, period. Go Vette!

 

OK but with NOS, 325 rear tires and a 3.90 HD rear we kick some serious buttox

 

Not really true. At the track, Vettes outhandle 911s regularly. I would think a Boxster or a new Cayman may be among the best handling cars in the world, period, but rear-engined cars are not going to outhandle our newer Vettes. At DE after DE, I can verify this to be accurate. Now, the Porsche may "feel" better to some, espeically as to steering feel and feedback, but feel is subjective, of course.

 

And you are completly objective being an american and all *lol*
neither the Porsche or the Vette have the engine in the right place should be in the middle to be optimal. Then again a Vette have leafsrings from the stoneage and Porsche have coilovers so the handling as always goes to Porsche, please GM get rid of the POS leafspring ASAP.

 

Unbelievable that after all the on this forum about leaf springs vs coil springs that anyone would still make this statement.

 

When robvuk goes to the Dr, he asks him to use leeches.

 

I suppose he does :-) so show me the fastest cars around do they use coilovers or leafsprings..... this is the same as "to score in an open goal" :-).If leafsprings is better, then i suppose everyone soon will convert to them and use them *rofl* instead of coilovers, since GM tech. most be the best in the world.

 

I watched also and did not come away with the impression the Porsche out handled the Vette. With 60% of the weight in the back and probably the majority of that hanging out past the rear axle the Porsche has always been a more difficult car to drive. Magazines and TV shows say the C6 can be driven faster with less driver skills, the Porsche on the other hand demands that the driver is up to the task, in short for the Porcshe to go around corners fast but it is at the limit allowing for like (if any) driver mistakes. The 911 does not like changes in mid corner (like lifting the throttle) which can cause the rear end to come around.

Each car approaches driving differently and each should be treated accordingly. IMHO Porsche has done a good job on making a car that handle as well as it does considering the physics involved. I liken it to teaching and elephant to dance ballet, can be done with enough time and money.

Also, Car and Driver pointed out that neither of these cars should be driven on the street to find the limits, they should only be driven hard on the track so that the driver can truly explore the handling capabilities that both of these cars can deliver.

 

Are you factoring in weight savings, aerodynamics, fuel economy, cost etc (all very positive factors directly related to these supposedly antequated leaf springs) into your arguements as well?
Based on these factors NO performance car in the world comes even REMOTELY close to the Corvette, the idea that no one else uses them (some others do actually) simply means they're missing out.

 

The Corvette is front mid-engined (the engine is completely behind the front axle) with 51/49 weight distribution. The P-car has about 59% of its weight in the back, and much of that behind the rear axle. No one builds rear-engined race cars today but for Porsche for a reason, but Panoz build a front mid-engined LMP car just a few years ago. You figure it out. Even Porsche, when it builds a really high end race car like the GT1 or the new LMP-2 car (or the Carrera GT, for that matter) puts the engine in the middle. Its really hard to run fast and turn corners with a backpack on, even though the Porsche engineers have done a great job with an old and flawed concept.

If Porsche could find a way to do so without upsetting the US P-car afficianados, they should ditch the rear-engined 911 and make the mid-engined Cayman the new "911". It has a much better chassis in every way and will really handle, I am sure, much like the Boxster S.

By the way, I am a member of the Porsche Club of America, so I think I am being objective. I like Porsches, but I also understand a little bit about Newtonian physics.

As far as the springs go, the leafs are low and save lots of weight, as they are made from a composite. They allow a much lower center of gravity. I won't try to say they are better than a fully adjustable coil-over suspension, but then such a suspension doesn't come on street cars, including the 911, which has McPherson struts up front and a mulitlink with tube shocks on the back.

 

Just answer the question why nobody else use them if they are so much better ? and why the fastest cars use coilovers ?
When you answer those two questions we can continue this discussion otherwise its just a pissing contest. I have never said that Porsche is the prefered solution with the rear engine concept thats even worse than leafsprings and leeches :-).
A Porsche is just an overpriced Beetle and Ferdinand Porsche went to jail after WW2 for helping the ***** thats why i will never own a Porsche, but thats me you can do whatever you want i dont care.

 

At this point, I also prefer pushrods.

 

I don't mean to prey on your ignorance here but, I didn't say leafsprings are better. The point has been proven on this forum and elsewhere that a spring is a spring. They are equal in springiness. It's the size, weight and shape that makes the leaf fit better in a Corvette. Besides other advantages. Coil springs offer no advantage unless you use ADJUSTABLE coilovers. Then the advantage is in the ADJUSTABILITY, not the spring. And furthermore the advantage is then only useable at a track. Most of the cars that have coilovers, DO NOT have ADJUSTABLE coilovers.

Additionally, the latest, hottest topic on this forum right now is all about the official Z06 time of 7:43 at the ring. So if you want me to "show you" the fastest cars around, take a gander at the small handful of highly modified cars that can beat a STOCK Z06 (with leafsprings) at the ring. That little fact combined with pushrods ought to tell you that you spend too much time reading magazines, instead of going out and racing. Have a nice day.

 

EXACTLY.
People need to be a little less concerned about names, image and labels and more concerned with simple function and what works IMO.

 

According to recent comparison tests in Road & Track and Car and Driver, the Z51 C6 lap times are a half second to a second quicker than the 997S when they test them on the same road course. Also, they say the Z51 is easier to drive quickly than a 997. So what basis do you have for the statement than a Porsche "outhandles" us? Did you also note the C6R's finished first and second in class and fifth and sixth overall at LeMans this year, while the closest GT3 911 was only tenth overall?

As a recent (and former) 996 owner, I'll take my C6 Z51 anytime over the Zuffenhausen product. GM may have missed the boat with most of it's product line, but they got the C6 right.

 

What would you rather have? Leaf springs with double A-arm suspension, or coil-overs on cheap, crappy McPherson struts? McPherson struts have no camber compensation, so the camber is far from optimum in hard cornering. Not so with double A-arms. Why do you think the expensive exotics and purpose built road race cars all use double A-arms? They work. What harm does having a leaf spring have? At most, there is slight crosstalk at the mounting, but most people would never notice it.

I'll take the double A-arms with a leaf spring, thank you.

Michael

 

You cannot take what you see at a DE as gospel. What you are seeing is the differences in DRIVERS, not cars, at DE's. 99% of the individuals at DE's cannot milk 100% out of thier cars, hell, sometimes they can't milk 70% out of them. The ONLY way to compare cars at a DE is to take one of the most experienced drivers out there that has CONSISTANT lap times and have them drive both cars. That might tell you a little more.

 

As Reeves Callaway mentioned in the documentary "Fast Cars" from a decade ago, execution has to be considered along with design.