And that's where I'm staying for now!

 

Lets talk about the Diablo Predator.

You can go back to stock anytime you want.

I know it's not a Dyno "custom tune" but it's looking good to me.

Any comments? Info on release?

 

I emailed Diablo for a release date, in response they said it should be out by the end of the month and it does remove TM. They’re so many factors involved in testing; it can be difficult to ever give an accurate release date. It is better to push the date then deliver a poorly tested program. It will be worth the wait.

I had the Diablo Predator programmer on my Lightning and after I downloaded their performance tune the difference in performance was night and day. As I added on mods I was able to easily make adjustments to the tune. One of Diablo Predator’s best features is the ability to restore the stock tune.

 

Has anyone with the LS2 edit had to bring their car in for warranty work (ie check engine lights) and were their any issues? Was the dealer able to identify the codes, reset and correct the problem?

 

I know this is not true as I had my computer flashed back to stock after it was tuned,

 

As a Chevrolet dealer, I know for a fact that this is absolutely NOT true. After I tune cars with LS2 Edit, we are able to remove any DTC code with the Tech2 w/CANDI interface and there is no tell tale signs that anything was ever done to the ECU.

If the car requires flashing the ECU for a campaign, then YES, the tune that you got WILL be overwritten with the new factory parameters. It would be up to you to go back to your tuner so that he would be able to download your base file and then copy the modifications necessary to bring your car back to the state of tune that it was before.

Hope this helps!!

Brian
Kelley Performance/Kelley Chevrolet
954-548-8920

 

Maybe everyone should read my original post. Only the original tuner who used LS2edit can reflash the PCM. This is a fact, call Carputing if you question this.

HPTuners is in the hands of the professional tuners just like LS2edit. Neither company have made their products available to the general market. Saying HP tuners doesn''t have an LS2 product is not accurate.

When you had your PCM reflashed, you had the original tuner do it. You cannot bring it to anyone else or even the dealer.

The new version of LS2edit does not allow you to read the data tables that were modified unless you use LS2edit. You cannot use any other software to read the data tables.

Tech 2 is only a scanning tool and does not read the tables changed by the tuning software.

Your comment about kissing *** to another vendor while bashing Carputing is misconstrued. Carputing chose to make their software lock the PCM and didn't tell anyone they were doing it. They chose not to give the tuner the option. The fact that I don't like how their software controls my PCM and others may not be aware of this "feature" is why I started this thread. If you don't care, stop reading. Those who do care want to know.

The fact that I'm choosing to go with HP tuners is due to the features and support etc. I would also consider EFI live, but, HP tuners is closer to being available.

If you're an LS2edit user, go for it, just tell your customers what the consequences are of tuning their PCM.

So, if you don't care, stop reading. If you love LS2edit, stop reading.

If you do care, talk to your tuner.

 

Your comments are reasonable to me.

I was very close to having the LS2 Edit done, but thanks to your post I'm now going to wait. I think its despicable how vendors and companies will take your money without letting you know what you may be getting into, but I'm not surprised.

 

Your comments are very reasonable to me as well.

After watching a friend of mine go to 3.42 gears and a torque converter, by one tuner, then go to heads and cam package by a forum vendor here who unbeknownst to him, locked his PCM after the tune.

His stock tranny didn't stand up to the new power for very long and his transmission failed soon after with the extra power.

He decided to go with an FLP tranny but this time wanted to go to 3.73 gears. His plan was to have these installed locally.

But because his PCM was locked by the H/C installing shop 500 miles away, wound up sticking with his 3.42s, not wanting to go through the hassle of sending the PCM back to have it unlocked and gear scaling done for the 3.73s by the H/C installers.

All because they didn't want anyone to see their tune for his H/C package.

 

Being able to lock the ECM (no PCM in a C6) is a feature built into the system by GM. As shipped, the ECM is not locked, but a tuner can lock it after a tune using any of a number of tuning products. For example, Ron Zimmer locks all of his tunes, but he doesn't use LS2edit. This isn't something unique to LS2edit. Version 2 of HP Tuners encrypts the files using their own proprietary encryption. You can't examine them with a hex editor as you could in the past.

The tuning software makers are using locking and encryption for two reasons. The first is to limit their product's use to only the licensed vehicle. In other words, they don't want you pirating their software and using it on multiple cars without paying the appropriate license fees. The second is because of requests by pro tuners to help them keep their tunes proprietary.

Now I don't like any of this. I don't condone software piracy, but when I buy a wrench, I expect it to work on any bolt of that size regardless of the car the bolt is on. Tuning software is the equivalent of a wrench in my opinion. I also don't want some mechanic to do something to my car in such a way that no other mechanic can work on it. The ability to change mechanics should be fundamental in my opinion, anything else is unfair restraint of trade. So I refuse to patronize tuners who lock or encrypt their tunes.

 

According to HPE, who uses LS2 edit, Carputing is actually changing the Security Code of the PCM so that not even a dealer can reflash the PCM back to stock. Chuck was quite surprised and he has used LS1edit for a long time. Also, there is no option to turn off the lock. The tuner has no choice.

 

Another heads up. If you decide to have two PCM's, one stock and one with tune. You will have to invest in some software to avoid a Crankshaft Position error code. I also found out this the hard way. The PCM needs to know the crankshaft position for timing, etc. Your dealer can clear this, but will now be suspicious that something was done to the PCM.

 

First you say the tuner can reflash the locked VCM and then you make claims carputing is not telling anyone so they are telling their customers
since they know the functions they are using with LS2edit and we the car owner no carputing is not telling us but we also are not their customers.
This is the same game played all over again as we did with the C5s for locked PCMs happened way back in 2001 and you can confirm that when people who were tuned by Zimmer, Powerloader or Wright were locking PCM ( and not using LS1edit) without telling their customers who only found out when a dealer tried to flash the PCM, could not and charged car owners for a new PCM.
Your blaming the wrong party it is the person tuning the cars that should tell car owners up front in what they are getting.
If you want to stop the locking practice go to GM with your C6 and tell them someone in violation of federal law changes their EPA security code and make them do sometime about it.
Else many other products or services copyright or claim ownership so if they can do it then so can what a tuner product produces.
It is interesting both hptuners and efilive having a locking PCM feature for C5s and no one bitching but LS1edit does not have such a function and they are the ones being ragged on

None of Corvette owners like this practice but making the claim only carputing is doing this sounds like a marketing attack on one vendor while sucking up to the other when they also do things to prevent backward engineering/hacking when in fact they hacked GM's property.

You say LS2edit is not on the market yet many shops have bought it and use it.
You say a Tech-II is only a scanner, that is not correct for it can write to the flash, it can program other modules in the car such as the BCM.
There are simple OBD parameters that inform when the VCM was reflashed so a dealer if they wanted can tell if code was changed or not.
Yes we want to know what a tuner product does but we also want to hear all sides of it and not just one person who is saying the same thing we all heard years ago and unless very different then for C5s a dealer still can overwrite a locked flash by simply answering NO when Tech-II asks if the VIN # is correct which then it will force reflash

 

whnever I go to dealer I put a big sign taped to dash saying "Custom Programming, DO NOT Flash PCM". I was still under warranty at the time. No biggie, just engine & tranny not covered!

 

You forgot the part about if you like LS2edit (or LS1edit), stop reading.

Yes, Tech2 is more than a scanner, it can load GM software and also reset codes. It can't read the data tables modified by the tuning software.

Did I ever say I was talking about LS1edit? Do you have ls2edit? No, I thought so.

Did you misquote me? Yes. I said LS2edit is out in Beta and not available to the general public.

Do HPtuners and EFIlive lock the PCM without the tuner knowing it? No. IT'S NOT AN OPTION with LS2edit!!!

Horse Power Engineering, an LS2edit beta tester:
"The Tech 2 still works on the vehicle for diagnostic purposes. It just can't service the programming system.

This can be overcome by the original person who tuned your car, by having them upload your stock file back into the PCM. There's an option in the uploader that will allow you to put it back to stock security settings and everything. Then it will be like LS2 Edit/Beta never was on the PCM.

The tuner however does not have the ability to select if the software changes the security settings or not. It's simply the way the software works. People who say otherwise do not know what they're talking about.

Chuck" (HPE).

I'll say it again, this post is not for you so don't bother replying. It's for those who understand what's being posted and don't want to have their PCM locked without their knowledge and the consequences of having it tuned by LS2edit.

Please, before you post your reply, call Carputing and get the facts. Don't just post stuff because of what you think.

 

My tuner (Carolina Auto Masters) uses HP tuner to tune the C6. We have had the discussion about this and he says that its doubtful that the dealer could even detect the tune, they also would have no problem in re-flashing it (he will reload for a small fee if that happens).

Based on his comments (and other customers), it took the worry out of it for me.

 

Go Milkman!

 

HHmmmm..... We at Rev Xtreme are doing plenty of C6 tunes (the first for a local GM dealer himself & he is happy as heck!) and we have run into no dealer/warranty issues, only VERY happy customers.

There is not a program made that can't be hacked....just ask any code writer or computer programmer. Microsoft spends billion's yearly fighting it.

If you have a concern, don't do it, but I find it puzzeling that some spend $60K on a car and get angry over worrying about spending a few 100 on their PCM if there is a problem? Look at your last weekend out dinner & drink bill. Put it into perspective, buy a spare if you are worried! The C6 is awesome & has PLENTY of more in it!

 

I plan to do my own tuning and could not live without a tuned PCM, my cam alone is 238/242 duration. Since LS2edit has locked my PCM, I now have to send it back to the tuner, who didn't know it was being locked, to have it reflashed back to stock so I can do my own tuning.

 

[QUOTE=TLewis4095]
If you have a concern, don't do it, but I find it puzzeling that some spend $60K on a car and get angry over worrying about spending a few 100 on their PCM if there is a problem? QUOTE]

It's potentially the denial of warranty work which as we all know can run into the thousands when it comes to your engine. Some dealers just look for an excuse to void your warranty