I found out today that anyone getting their PCM tuned using LS2edit, cannot get it tuned using any other tuning software and also you cannot get the PCM reflashed to the stock software by the dealer. LS2edit changes the security code in the PCM so it cannot be updated by anything other than LS2edit. This was confirmed by Carputing, makers of LS2edit.

Once your PCM is flashed, you cannot go back, you have to purchase another PCM. Be sure to discuss with your tuner and understand the consequences before you get your PCM tuned. Only LS2edit does this.

I learned the hard way.

 

#1 How hard is it for the dealer to find out it's been tuned?

#2 What are the odds the dealer will even check?

 

I remember reading on this Forum that LS2 edit and some other computer tuning Co.'s could store and retrieve the stock tune.

 

WOW! I was going to do the LS2 edit in the near future, AFTER I broke my car in my way-by waiting until I get 1500 miles on it. Can anyone recommend another tune program that works as good but does not prevent you from going back?

 

I had a bad feeling about this when I started reading the first posts about tuning for the C6. Removing torque management, and so forth.

In the past, when people screwed up something with, or due to DIY tuning or "professional" aftermarket tuning, sometimes the programming would simply be returned to stock, the car taken back to the dealer, and repaired under warranty if there were any warranty left. I guess GM caught on.

As far as other tuning options, I see advertisements for the Predator. Then there is HP Tuners and EFI Live but the LS2 tuning capabilities for both are in their infancy from what I have read. Version 2.0 of HP Tuners is still not out except to a few tuning shops, and not much heard about EFI Live with regard to LS2 tuning.

When people started making posts about tuning our cars I had a real concern about the ability to go back to stock if it ever became necessary. For many the ideal tuning solution includes among other things the ability to return to stock. Quickly if necessary.

I was also concerned as to the dealer's ability to tell if the ECU programming had ever been altered. If they can, then it could make for warranty issues.

Thanks for the heads up. It will definitely play a role in the decision making process for many here.

 

ECU's aren't that expensive (all things considered), they're like $250 from Beans. A few folks have bought them for "mail-order tunes" and kept their stock ECU to go back to if necessary...

Rick

 

Well, when I was over on the C5 forum, I heard about "updates" by the dealer when people took their cars in for routine maintenance. If the PECU cannot be updated with their equipment then they will know something is up. As I understood it, these "updates" were minor alterations in the stock programming which came out periodically and might be flashed into the computer during those 10k mile etc maintenance visits

Also, say you had the car tuned and developed engine trouble afterwards. Say the engine failed and you went back to the dealer for a new one. He would find out soon enough. Same if your automatic transmission failed following programming to alter your transmission settings. If they installed a new one and attempted to "update" the ECU afterward, they would know.

I believe what he is saying is that if the car should go in to the dealer, for any reason, and they attempt to do any programming updates, they won't be able to. And they will know then that the programming has been altered.

 

True. Seems that a few steps have to be taken however:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1179368

 

God bless HPtuners

 

It sounds to me like this is the doing of the folks at LS2 edit, not GM?

 

The Predator is looking better and better.

 

...I was a Comp Sci major before I switched to Finance/Accounting. I know just enough to be dangerous about flash memory, EPROM's, EEPROM's, ad infinitum. If the LS2edit software is locking us out of the PCM that's on them, not GM.

 

I am just buying a 2nd ecm! from fred beans and keepinh my stock one in my garage !
It is oly $200 +

 

I want my programming locked down. Many Dealers were flashing as a normal process when it was not needed.

 

tune ??? what's that ? I've heard that the stock program will allow you to obtain just around 500hp without the need to retune. why tune it twice ? get as much power out of it you can, then have it tuned. I would only get the a/f ratio correctly, everything else I'd leave along. The TM debate is still out.

 

I disagree but hey give it a shot, it might work out.

 

Ya, when it comes out in 2007!

 

Let me tell you guys a story regarding tuning engine control management devices...

My previous car was a Volvo S60R. It is a 300hp turbocharged engine with the boost set to 14.0 PSI. Typical practice for Volvo enthusiasts is to flash their ECU (engine control unit) with a new map that is exactly the same as the factory one with two exceptions: 3-4 PSI of extra boost and a slightly richer fuel mixture to compensate for more air being forced in the engine.

Thousands of Volvos do this on a regular basis for 30-50 hp gains.

I had my ECU flashed. Later, I had a Volvo dealership install a downpipe. Some fishy stuff happened, and for some reason the turbo boost never built. I had the ECU set back to stock via complete memory reload to see if that was the problem. The turbo was still running only 3 PSI. Then, the head gasket blew and warped the head... the evidence suggests the dealership messed up my turbo when installing a downpipe, but there was no smoking gun.

Volvo could find via code on the ECU that at some point in time, I reflashed the ECU with aftermarket code. A flash/reflash history was stuck in the RAM and registers of the ECU. I'm an Electrical Engineer and know for a fact this is possible if you pull out the chipboard and work at it for a while. However, Volvo had a diagnostic program to search for codes, and their program alone was designed to look for such devices. They didn't need fancy computer scientists to figure things out.

So considering a new I-5 turbo engine cost 7000 dollars, there was no smoking gun pointing to the true cause of the failure, and Volvo found that at some point I adjusted the code, they denied warranty coverage and blamed the aftermarket ECU. The evidence suggested the Volvo dealership messed up my car at the downpipe install, but again there was no real "smoking gun" to clear me.

After a lengthy fight my car ended up taking a 20,000 dollar depreciation hit, as there was nothing I could do short of investing in a lawyer on a case that I could easily win or lose...

Not sure how the ECU is on the Corvette. On the Volvo, the chip is linked to sensors for everything, thermostat, battery, AF mixture, boost, tons of things and electrical sensors send and receive information from the ECU. My case was an anomaly, nobody ever had a Volvo fail from an aftermarket chip.

Food for thought.

 

SO are you saying not to do it?

Sorry about your V car.

 

I'm saying know the associated risks, and remember if you want to play, be ready to pay... because you never know what may happen.

Drivetrain blows to pieces but you've had the torque management reduced and Chevy finds out? Your bill... that sort of thing. Just know what you're getting in to!