C6 - dead battery problem
Racer
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 298
Likes: 0
To answer some of your questions:
The limit switch has nothing to do with de-energizing the motor, the limit switch is just a signal to a IC controller with logic that will de-energize the motor even if it the limit switch is not contacted.
As far as relays latching, I played around with a relay, same kind as relay 46, and some AAs. I found that it will latch consistantly at 4.5 V and sometimes at 3 Volts. I had to take it apart and watch it since it doesn't make nearly as loud a sound. With 3 volts it will stay latched everytime I tried it. My earlier comment about 2 volts was mainly to say we shouldn't only focus on mechanical causes, though I agree I could see the logic. But, if you think about like this, the ECM and many other modules, radio, etc... have a hard power line (fused) to the battery, they receive some kind of class 2 message to change power states to off, on, RAP, etc... and as the battery drops they won't receive this, who knows what happens inside the module as the voltage drops down. Also, since most of the logic uses 5 volts signals I can see how it can get that low. All the times my vehicle was left out of reverse killed the battery down to the lower ranges mentioned above. Also, the vehicle has a normal drain that is present all the time.
On to the 2 reverse swithes, neither power the reverse lights. They both are signals, one is a signal to the BCM and the other a signal to the lock module. They are both powered by the BCM. The switch that is connected back to the BCM signals when to turn on the reverse lights and also is a signal for the BCM to send message to the lock module to lock the column if vehicle is turned off. The signal to the lock module is a redundent check to make sure the vehicle is in reverse before locking the column, only the switch for the BCM must be closed for the vehicle to shutdown. If the other switch is not closed, a B0005 DTC will set. Also, the DTC I mentioned before set in the lock module, not the BCM. Also, not that a B0005 will set in the BCM if you drive too many times with parking brake on. You can see the status of both of the switches using data display on a Tech II.
The difference between manual and automatic would make it difficult to convert yours. The BCM is programmed differently and the park signal somewhat takes the place as the reverse signal. An automatic will also kill the battery if you don't shift back to park when you turn it off. Automatic does not have a column lock or lock module, used brake instead of clutch, etc... If you wanted to retrofit, best bet would be to try to make it like 2006 manual, which do not have lock or lock module. In this case, my complete guess is that you could just reprogram BCM and remove lock module, probably leave column lock in, but make sure it is unlocked
. It is a very not fun procedure, to remove it requires special tools.
On to my testing....
basically I had a extra column lock that I took apart. The lock module is easily accessed by taking off the IP and the cluster, it is right behind it on the right. The column lock plugs right into it. I unplugged the one on the vehicle and plugged in the one I took apart, because it was taking apart I could make the limit switch show whatever position I wanted, including open. It was a long time ago, so I may not remember it exactly. I know that I tried not changing the limit switch and the motor would indeed time out after maybe 10 seconds. I tried a lot of things and never came across any kind of weird response, the fault detection seemed pretty good and the vehicle shut off in every scenario, as long as the reverse signal was sent to the BCM. Also, the motor is indeed thermally protected. I had a shunt hooked up to the battery to check for any draw.
I really wouldn't worry about it if it hasn't happened to you, I wish my car would do it, I have been super curious about this issue ever since I first read about it on the forum...
The limit switch has nothing to do with de-energizing the motor, the limit switch is just a signal to a IC controller with logic that will de-energize the motor even if it the limit switch is not contacted.
As far as relays latching, I played around with a relay, same kind as relay 46, and some AAs. I found that it will latch consistantly at 4.5 V and sometimes at 3 Volts. I had to take it apart and watch it since it doesn't make nearly as loud a sound. With 3 volts it will stay latched everytime I tried it. My earlier comment about 2 volts was mainly to say we shouldn't only focus on mechanical causes, though I agree I could see the logic. But, if you think about like this, the ECM and many other modules, radio, etc... have a hard power line (fused) to the battery, they receive some kind of class 2 message to change power states to off, on, RAP, etc... and as the battery drops they won't receive this, who knows what happens inside the module as the voltage drops down. Also, since most of the logic uses 5 volts signals I can see how it can get that low. All the times my vehicle was left out of reverse killed the battery down to the lower ranges mentioned above. Also, the vehicle has a normal drain that is present all the time.
On to the 2 reverse swithes, neither power the reverse lights. They both are signals, one is a signal to the BCM and the other a signal to the lock module. They are both powered by the BCM. The switch that is connected back to the BCM signals when to turn on the reverse lights and also is a signal for the BCM to send message to the lock module to lock the column if vehicle is turned off. The signal to the lock module is a redundent check to make sure the vehicle is in reverse before locking the column, only the switch for the BCM must be closed for the vehicle to shutdown. If the other switch is not closed, a B0005 DTC will set. Also, the DTC I mentioned before set in the lock module, not the BCM. Also, not that a B0005 will set in the BCM if you drive too many times with parking brake on. You can see the status of both of the switches using data display on a Tech II.
The difference between manual and automatic would make it difficult to convert yours. The BCM is programmed differently and the park signal somewhat takes the place as the reverse signal. An automatic will also kill the battery if you don't shift back to park when you turn it off. Automatic does not have a column lock or lock module, used brake instead of clutch, etc... If you wanted to retrofit, best bet would be to try to make it like 2006 manual, which do not have lock or lock module. In this case, my complete guess is that you could just reprogram BCM and remove lock module, probably leave column lock in, but make sure it is unlocked
. It is a very not fun procedure, to remove it requires special tools.On to my testing....
basically I had a extra column lock that I took apart. The lock module is easily accessed by taking off the IP and the cluster, it is right behind it on the right. The column lock plugs right into it. I unplugged the one on the vehicle and plugged in the one I took apart, because it was taking apart I could make the limit switch show whatever position I wanted, including open. It was a long time ago, so I may not remember it exactly. I know that I tried not changing the limit switch and the motor would indeed time out after maybe 10 seconds. I tried a lot of things and never came across any kind of weird response, the fault detection seemed pretty good and the vehicle shut off in every scenario, as long as the reverse signal was sent to the BCM. Also, the motor is indeed thermally protected. I had a shunt hooked up to the battery to check for any draw.
I really wouldn't worry about it if it hasn't happened to you, I wish my car would do it, I have been super curious about this issue ever since I first read about it on the forum...
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
From: Murfreesboro Tn
Originally Posted by OttoNP
To answer some of your questions:
The limit switch has nothing to do with de-energizing the motor, the limit switch is just a signal to a IC controller with logic that will de-energize the motor even if it the limit switch is not contacted.
As far as relays latching, I played around with a relay, same kind as relay 46, and some AAs. I found that it will latch consistantly at 4.5 V and sometimes at 3 Volts. I had to take it apart and watch it since it doesn't make nearly as loud a sound. With 3 volts it will stay latched everytime I tried it. My earlier comment about 2 volts was mainly to say we shouldn't only focus on mechanical causes, though I agree I could see the logic. But, if you think about like this, the ECM and many other modules, radio, etc... have a hard power line (fused) to the battery, they receive some kind of class 2 message to change power states to off, on, RAP, etc... and as the battery drops they won't receive this, who knows what happens inside the module as the voltage drops down. Also, since most of the logic uses 5 volts signals I can see how it can get that low. All the times my vehicle was left out of reverse killed the battery down to the lower ranges mentioned above. Also, the vehicle has a normal drain that is present all the time.
On to the 2 reverse swithes, neither power the reverse lights. They both are signals, one is a signal to the BCM and the other a signal to the lock module. They are both powered by the BCM. The switch that is connected back to the BCM signals when to turn on the reverse lights and also is a signal for the BCM to send message to the lock module to lock the column if vehicle is turned off. The signal to the lock module is a redundent check to make sure the vehicle is in reverse before locking the column, only the switch for the BCM must be closed for the vehicle to shutdown. If the other switch is not closed, a B0005 DTC will set. Also, the DTC I mentioned before set in the lock module, not the BCM. Also, not that a B0005 will set in the BCM if you drive too many times with parking brake on. You can see the status of both of the switches using data display on a Tech II.
The difference between manual and automatic would make it difficult to convert yours. The BCM is programmed differently and the park signal somewhat takes the place as the reverse signal. An automatic will also kill the battery if you don't shift back to park when you turn it off. Automatic does not have a column lock or lock module, used brake instead of clutch, etc... If you wanted to retrofit, best bet would be to try to make it like 2006 manual, which do not have lock or lock module. In this case, my complete guess is that you could just reprogram BCM and remove lock module, probably leave column lock in, but make sure it is unlocked. It is a very not fun procedure, to remove it requires special tools.
On to my testing....
basically I had a extra column lock that I took apart. The lock module is easily accessed by taking off the IP and the cluster, it is right behind it on the right. The column lock plugs right into it. I unplugged the one on the vehicle and plugged in the one I took apart, because it was taking apart I could make the limit switch show whatever position I wanted, including open. It was a long time ago, so I may not remember it exactly. I know that I tried not changing the limit switch and the motor would indeed time out after maybe 10 seconds. I tried a lot of things and never came across any kind of weird response, the fault detection seemed pretty good and the vehicle shut off in every scenario, as long as the reverse signal was sent to the BCM. Also, the motor is indeed thermally protected. I had a shunt hooked up to the battery to check for any draw.
The limit switch has nothing to do with de-energizing the motor, the limit switch is just a signal to a IC controller with logic that will de-energize the motor even if it the limit switch is not contacted.
As far as relays latching, I played around with a relay, same kind as relay 46, and some AAs. I found that it will latch consistantly at 4.5 V and sometimes at 3 Volts. I had to take it apart and watch it since it doesn't make nearly as loud a sound. With 3 volts it will stay latched everytime I tried it. My earlier comment about 2 volts was mainly to say we shouldn't only focus on mechanical causes, though I agree I could see the logic. But, if you think about like this, the ECM and many other modules, radio, etc... have a hard power line (fused) to the battery, they receive some kind of class 2 message to change power states to off, on, RAP, etc... and as the battery drops they won't receive this, who knows what happens inside the module as the voltage drops down. Also, since most of the logic uses 5 volts signals I can see how it can get that low. All the times my vehicle was left out of reverse killed the battery down to the lower ranges mentioned above. Also, the vehicle has a normal drain that is present all the time.
On to the 2 reverse swithes, neither power the reverse lights. They both are signals, one is a signal to the BCM and the other a signal to the lock module. They are both powered by the BCM. The switch that is connected back to the BCM signals when to turn on the reverse lights and also is a signal for the BCM to send message to the lock module to lock the column if vehicle is turned off. The signal to the lock module is a redundent check to make sure the vehicle is in reverse before locking the column, only the switch for the BCM must be closed for the vehicle to shutdown. If the other switch is not closed, a B0005 DTC will set. Also, the DTC I mentioned before set in the lock module, not the BCM. Also, not that a B0005 will set in the BCM if you drive too many times with parking brake on. You can see the status of both of the switches using data display on a Tech II.
The difference between manual and automatic would make it difficult to convert yours. The BCM is programmed differently and the park signal somewhat takes the place as the reverse signal. An automatic will also kill the battery if you don't shift back to park when you turn it off. Automatic does not have a column lock or lock module, used brake instead of clutch, etc... If you wanted to retrofit, best bet would be to try to make it like 2006 manual, which do not have lock or lock module. In this case, my complete guess is that you could just reprogram BCM and remove lock module, probably leave column lock in, but make sure it is unlocked
. It is a very not fun procedure, to remove it requires special tools.On to my testing....
basically I had a extra column lock that I took apart. The lock module is easily accessed by taking off the IP and the cluster, it is right behind it on the right. The column lock plugs right into it. I unplugged the one on the vehicle and plugged in the one I took apart, because it was taking apart I could make the limit switch show whatever position I wanted, including open. It was a long time ago, so I may not remember it exactly. I know that I tried not changing the limit switch and the motor would indeed time out after maybe 10 seconds. I tried a lot of things and never came across any kind of weird response, the fault detection seemed pretty good and the vehicle shut off in every scenario, as long as the reverse signal was sent to the BCM. Also, the motor is indeed thermally protected. I had a shunt hooked up to the battery to check for any draw.
In effect the motor feedback is de-energizing the relay via the ic. Also, it appears there is a watchdog timer on the low side and thermail protection on the high side. So the circuit has everything I was expecting from the onset. Now, we need to consider how this module with it's design can enter a fault mode that continually draws current. I need to draw out the circuit and think for a while. Unless you can send me the circuit.
As far as the electronics go...since they are using 5 volt logic, they're probably using cmos chips with an operating Vcc of 3-18volts. However, the module would probably only be rated for probably 9-16v. I would like to know what happens with the module when the Vcc drops below 9v. From experience, there may not be a clear cut answer as the electronics are out of their normal operating range and "weird things" can occur. Also, the regulator would be pretty eradict or even drop out completely. There may even be a circuit to shut down the module if the regulator output is not within a specified range. Better stop here - I'm playing the guessing game and even starting to sound stupid to myself.
The colum lock is the differentiator to the AT/MT. I need to see the complete circuit and attempt to stumble into what failure modes(s) could lead to a DBS.
BTW, I do not for a minute presume to be more knowledgable or able to solve this than the GM team...I am only looking in from the outside. I'm sure the guys and gals over there are extremely sharp and competent. I would also hazard a guess that they too are frustrated.
Maybe I need to approach this differently...let me think for a while. Let's formulate a solid diagnostic approach to a vehicle that is in the DBS mode. Or how to monitor one that has already had an occurence. Yes, I realize there may be a long time between another occurence, if ever...but what have we got to lose?
Jz
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,213
Likes: 0
From: Malibu California
Otto & Jz
A question: is the hypothesis here that given enough time (reasonable, not infinite, of course) all Manual 6 '05 C6 cars will experience DBS? In other words, whatever failed in the current DBS cars will eventually fail in almost all?
A question: is the hypothesis here that given enough time (reasonable, not infinite, of course) all Manual 6 '05 C6 cars will experience DBS? In other words, whatever failed in the current DBS cars will eventually fail in almost all?
Last edited by scrannel; Nov 11, 2005 at 01:29 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
From: Murfreesboro Tn
Originally Posted by scrannel
Otto & Jz
A question: is the hypothesis here that given enough time (reasonable, not infinite, of course) all Manual 6 '05 C6 cars will experience DBS? In other words, whatever failed in the current DBS cars will eventually fail in almost all?
A question: is the hypothesis here that given enough time (reasonable, not infinite, of course) all Manual 6 '05 C6 cars will experience DBS? In other words, whatever failed in the current DBS cars will eventually fail in almost all?
For me the hypothesis is that all C6 MT's have the potential for this IF the right conditions occur. Since we haven't identified the conditions and GM hasn't issued a TSB or part change, I can only assume that the conditions are not commonly met. I can't give a baseline of "you are safe after x amount of time or mileage" though. Just not enough information.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,213
Likes: 0
From: Malibu California
Originally Posted by jz's blue c6
For me the hypothesis is that all C6 MT's have the potential for this IF the right conditions occur. Since we haven't identified the conditions and GM hasn't issued a TSB or part change, I can only assume that the conditions are not commonly met. I can't give a baseline of "you are safe after x amount of time or mileage" though. Just not enough information.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,314
Likes: 35
Originally Posted by scrannel
Right, but is it not possible that those "right conditions" may be a part? In other words, instead all c6 mts being equal (and thus equally capable of failure), perhaps the reason others are not failing is because they are NOT equal, ie., there is a variation in assembly or (more likely) a component used. This would be suggested if the DBS cars were represented by a particular "cluster" of VINs related by assembly date.
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
From: Murfreesboro Tn
Sure guys, it's entirely possible. The only method GM has of identifying this after the fact is through warranty claim analysis. I would expect GM to be looking at this data (which is usually very vague). Also keep in mind, when sales are down - warranty is up...shops have pay their bills too. Unfortunately, these types of occurrences tend to skew or muddy the data.
GM (and I would be flabergasted if they aren't already) needs to pull the battery warranty claims for part replacement and for labor. Then they should be looking for trends...vins, trim levels, etc.
If for example, they found a grouping for a certain time and they have a part(s) that they feel could be suspect...they could go back through the lot control and have the suppliers pull their first run data for those part lines during it's mfg time. The suppliers should have reject rates, causes, countermeasures, all documented and on file. Any changes they made in their mfg process should all be readily available.
In house, GM could use the time frame to check with process engineering and see what (if any) process changes occurred during this time. There are many categories to process and process changes so I won't go into them all. GM could track them though.
I haven't talked about this stuff before because it isn't anything I can do. This is all in house to GM and their taskforce. Surely they have at least begun looking for DBS trends via available data though.
Jz
GM (and I would be flabergasted if they aren't already) needs to pull the battery warranty claims for part replacement and for labor. Then they should be looking for trends...vins, trim levels, etc.
If for example, they found a grouping for a certain time and they have a part(s) that they feel could be suspect...they could go back through the lot control and have the suppliers pull their first run data for those part lines during it's mfg time. The suppliers should have reject rates, causes, countermeasures, all documented and on file. Any changes they made in their mfg process should all be readily available.
In house, GM could use the time frame to check with process engineering and see what (if any) process changes occurred during this time. There are many categories to process and process changes so I won't go into them all. GM could track them though.
I haven't talked about this stuff before because it isn't anything I can do. This is all in house to GM and their taskforce. Surely they have at least begun looking for DBS trends via available data though.
Jz
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
From: Longview WA
Originally Posted by OttoNP
To answer some of your questions:
The limit switch has nothing to do with de-energizing the motor, the limit switch is just a signal to a IC controller with logic that will de-energize the motor even if it the limit switch is not contacted.
As far as relays latching, I played around with a relay, same kind as relay 46, and some AAs. I found that it will latch consistantly at 4.5 V and sometimes at 3 Volts. I had to take it apart and watch it since it doesn't make nearly as loud a sound. With 3 volts it will stay latched everytime I tried it. My earlier comment about 2 volts was mainly to say we shouldn't only focus on mechanical causes, though I agree I could see the logic. But, if you think about like this, the ECM and many other modules, radio, etc... have a hard power line (fused) to the battery, they receive some kind of class 2 message to change power states to off, on, RAP, etc... and as the battery drops they won't receive this, who knows what happens inside the module as the voltage drops down. Also, since most of the logic uses 5 volts signals I can see how it can get that low. All the times my vehicle was left out of reverse killed the battery down to the lower ranges mentioned above. Also, the vehicle has a normal drain that is present all the time.
On to the 2 reverse swithes, neither power the reverse lights. They both are signals, one is a signal to the BCM and the other a signal to the lock module. They are both powered by the BCM. The switch that is connected back to the BCM signals when to turn on the reverse lights and also is a signal for the BCM to send message to the lock module to lock the column if vehicle is turned off. The signal to the lock module is a redundent check to make sure the vehicle is in reverse before locking the column, only the switch for the BCM must be closed for the vehicle to shutdown. If the other switch is not closed, a B0005 DTC will set. Also, the DTC I mentioned before set in the lock module, not the BCM. Also, not that a B0005 will set in the BCM if you drive too many times with parking brake on. You can see the status of both of the switches using data display on a Tech II.
The difference between manual and automatic would make it difficult to convert yours. The BCM is programmed differently and the park signal somewhat takes the place as the reverse signal. An automatic will also kill the battery if you don't shift back to park when you turn it off. Automatic does not have a column lock or lock module, used brake instead of clutch, etc... If you wanted to retrofit, best bet would be to try to make it like 2006 manual, which do not have lock or lock module. In this case, my complete guess is that you could just reprogram BCM and remove lock module, probably leave column lock in, but make sure it is unlocked. It is a very not fun procedure, to remove it requires special tools.
On to my testing....
basically I had a extra column lock that I took apart. The lock module is easily accessed by taking off the IP and the cluster, it is right behind it on the right. The column lock plugs right into it. I unplugged the one on the vehicle and plugged in the one I took apart, because it was taking apart I could make the limit switch show whatever position I wanted, including open. It was a long time ago, so I may not remember it exactly. I know that I tried not changing the limit switch and the motor would indeed time out after maybe 10 seconds. I tried a lot of things and never came across any kind of weird response, the fault detection seemed pretty good and the vehicle shut off in every scenario, as long as the reverse signal was sent to the BCM. Also, the motor is indeed thermally protected. I had a shunt hooked up to the battery to check for any draw.
I really wouldn't worry about it if it hasn't happened to you, I wish my car would do it, I have been super curious about this issue ever since I first read about it on the forum...
The limit switch has nothing to do with de-energizing the motor, the limit switch is just a signal to a IC controller with logic that will de-energize the motor even if it the limit switch is not contacted.
As far as relays latching, I played around with a relay, same kind as relay 46, and some AAs. I found that it will latch consistantly at 4.5 V and sometimes at 3 Volts. I had to take it apart and watch it since it doesn't make nearly as loud a sound. With 3 volts it will stay latched everytime I tried it. My earlier comment about 2 volts was mainly to say we shouldn't only focus on mechanical causes, though I agree I could see the logic. But, if you think about like this, the ECM and many other modules, radio, etc... have a hard power line (fused) to the battery, they receive some kind of class 2 message to change power states to off, on, RAP, etc... and as the battery drops they won't receive this, who knows what happens inside the module as the voltage drops down. Also, since most of the logic uses 5 volts signals I can see how it can get that low. All the times my vehicle was left out of reverse killed the battery down to the lower ranges mentioned above. Also, the vehicle has a normal drain that is present all the time.
On to the 2 reverse swithes, neither power the reverse lights. They both are signals, one is a signal to the BCM and the other a signal to the lock module. They are both powered by the BCM. The switch that is connected back to the BCM signals when to turn on the reverse lights and also is a signal for the BCM to send message to the lock module to lock the column if vehicle is turned off. The signal to the lock module is a redundent check to make sure the vehicle is in reverse before locking the column, only the switch for the BCM must be closed for the vehicle to shutdown. If the other switch is not closed, a B0005 DTC will set. Also, the DTC I mentioned before set in the lock module, not the BCM. Also, not that a B0005 will set in the BCM if you drive too many times with parking brake on. You can see the status of both of the switches using data display on a Tech II.
The difference between manual and automatic would make it difficult to convert yours. The BCM is programmed differently and the park signal somewhat takes the place as the reverse signal. An automatic will also kill the battery if you don't shift back to park when you turn it off. Automatic does not have a column lock or lock module, used brake instead of clutch, etc... If you wanted to retrofit, best bet would be to try to make it like 2006 manual, which do not have lock or lock module. In this case, my complete guess is that you could just reprogram BCM and remove lock module, probably leave column lock in, but make sure it is unlocked
. It is a very not fun procedure, to remove it requires special tools.On to my testing....
basically I had a extra column lock that I took apart. The lock module is easily accessed by taking off the IP and the cluster, it is right behind it on the right. The column lock plugs right into it. I unplugged the one on the vehicle and plugged in the one I took apart, because it was taking apart I could make the limit switch show whatever position I wanted, including open. It was a long time ago, so I may not remember it exactly. I know that I tried not changing the limit switch and the motor would indeed time out after maybe 10 seconds. I tried a lot of things and never came across any kind of weird response, the fault detection seemed pretty good and the vehicle shut off in every scenario, as long as the reverse signal was sent to the BCM. Also, the motor is indeed thermally protected. I had a shunt hooked up to the battery to check for any draw.
I really wouldn't worry about it if it hasn't happened to you, I wish my car would do it, I have been super curious about this issue ever since I first read about it on the forum...
Otto, thanks for all the good info. I did assume the other reverse switch ran the back up lights since I had not found it in the schematics. (Assume is so dangerous) You said the limit switch didn't de-energize the motor, but it told the IC controller to. I think that is the same net effect, if it doesn't tell it to then won't the controller keep trying to run the motor?
Sounds like you have some resources. What I would like to see is if you energized a Lock Motor, locked rotor and let its thermal protection cycle, at what point would it run a battery to 10.5 volts which is considered dead.
I think there is a lot more DBS out there than anybody knows about. I think lots of people just call road side assistance, get a jump and go on there way and assume it was something they did or they take it to the dealer and they charge the battery and tell them they must have not put it all the way in reverse. I am very fussy about shut down and I have had DBS 3 times. I can say that I always shut it off the same. I shut the doors and walk away and never touch it again. I look at the red flashing light twice a day and if I'm going to get DBS it will be on day 2 or I will never get it. Based on that, I'm convinced this is NOT a case of the car waking up, but hanging up in the shutdown sequence and the likely suspect is the steering column lock circuit.
Didn't you think it was interesting that 5 of the 6 malfunctions that will set a DTC will do it for one event, but the one which is likely involved in DBS requires 5 consecutive failures to set one. I wonder what consecutive means, in one ignition cycle or 5 per the 50 ignition cycles required to clear one if the malfunction goes away?
Gary
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Instructor
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
From: Murfreesboro Tn
Someone help me out here...
When I shut down and go into RAP mode, I hear what I think is the CL. It's a motorized kind of "zip" sound. If I turn off my vehicle from running and then open and close the door, thus ending RAP mode, after 35 seconds I hear a much slower motorized sound that lasts about 7 secs. This sound it accompanied with behind Instrument panel clicks. What is this I am hearing? BTW you can hear this sound by letting RAP time out, but it's less waiting if you use the process above. Also note, I had to shut down from engine running. After ehatever it is activates, it will not activate again by going into acc and then RAP...engine must run then shut off.
Thanks,
John
When I shut down and go into RAP mode, I hear what I think is the CL. It's a motorized kind of "zip" sound. If I turn off my vehicle from running and then open and close the door, thus ending RAP mode, after 35 seconds I hear a much slower motorized sound that lasts about 7 secs. This sound it accompanied with behind Instrument panel clicks. What is this I am hearing? BTW you can hear this sound by letting RAP time out, but it's less waiting if you use the process above. Also note, I had to shut down from engine running. After ehatever it is activates, it will not activate again by going into acc and then RAP...engine must run then shut off.
Thanks,
John
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,430
Likes: 81
From: Whidbey Island WA
One thing I have to ask. Where is this flashing red light on the dash? Mine has never had a flashing red light. I had to go out and look and see if it was something that I just didnt notice over the year I have had it. Nope, no flashing red light. I have nav and its on the non nav radio is all I can figure.
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
From: Murfreesboro Tn
Originally Posted by crabman
One thing I have to ask. Where is this flashing red light on the dash? Mine has never had a flashing red light. I had to go out and look and see if it was something that I just didnt notice over the year I have had it. Nope, no flashing red light. I have nav and its on the non nav radio is all I can figure.
Just above and to the left of your volume **** on the radio is a small led. It is the theft deterent indicator for the radio. I think it only flashes when the ign is off.
John
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,284
Likes: 3
From: Southwest Florida
Originally Posted by jz's blue c6
Someone help me out here...
When I shut down and go into RAP mode, I hear what I think is the CL. It's a motorized kind of "zip" sound. If I turn off my vehicle from running and then open and close the door, thus ending RAP mode, after 35 seconds I hear a much slower motorized sound that lasts about 7 secs. This sound it accompanied with behind Instrument panel clicks. What is this I am hearing? BTW you can hear this sound by letting RAP time out, but it's less waiting if you use the process above. Also note, I had to shut down from engine running. After ehatever it is activates, it will not activate again by going into acc and then RAP...engine must run then shut off.
Thanks,
John
When I shut down and go into RAP mode, I hear what I think is the CL. It's a motorized kind of "zip" sound. If I turn off my vehicle from running and then open and close the door, thus ending RAP mode, after 35 seconds I hear a much slower motorized sound that lasts about 7 secs. This sound it accompanied with behind Instrument panel clicks. What is this I am hearing? BTW you can hear this sound by letting RAP time out, but it's less waiting if you use the process above. Also note, I had to shut down from engine running. After ehatever it is activates, it will not activate again by going into acc and then RAP...engine must run then shut off.
Thanks,
John
Mike
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
From: Murfreesboro Tn
Originally Posted by crabman
Nope, left my fob inside the house just in case. No flashing LED. Have never had it insofar as I know. Interesting.
Crabman, do you see the led even though it is not flashing? What audio system do you have? The light flashes to show that the theft deterent mode of the radio is on.
John
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
From: Murfreesboro Tn
Originally Posted by mikeyc6
Do you have nav? If so, it might be the DVD. Mine seems to like to chew on the DVD for a few seconds every now and then.
Mike
Mike
Mike, no nav. The sound appears to be coming from being the combimeter. Where as the column lock appears to be coming from the column. I'm curious as to what this sytem is. Can you try to duplicate using the short method...turn off engine, open and close driver's door to exit RAP mode, then wait about 35 seconds.
John
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,213
Likes: 0
From: Malibu California
Otto or Jz,
What about the keyless entry antennas? Could a fault in one of these prevent the power from shutting down or cause the car to "wake up"? (I think there are three or four of them).
Thanks
What about the keyless entry antennas? Could a fault in one of these prevent the power from shutting down or cause the car to "wake up"? (I think there are three or four of them).
Thanks
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
From: Reading PA
Thanks
I want to take this opportunity to thank all of the very frustrated C6 owners who have responded to my request for information regarding the now infamous Dead Battery Syndrome. The 'engineers in high places' now have a solid core of owners to work with who have experienced the problem multiple times. (They do not need any more names at this time.) A small team of engineers has been assembled to finally take a serious look at this problem and, with the help of those who responded, they will hopefully once and for all find a 'fix'! The C6 is a phenominal car that is exceptional to drive. This DBS problem is taking away the 'fun' and needs to be fixed. Thanks again for all your responses.
Jeff
2005 C6 Cpe.
Six speed, Magnetic Red.
Jeff
2005 C6 Cpe.
Six speed, Magnetic Red.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 298
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by scrannel
Otto or Jz,
What about the keyless entry antennas? Could a fault in one of these prevent the power from shutting down or cause the car to "wake up"? (I think there are three or four of them).
Thanks
What about the keyless entry antennas? Could a fault in one of these prevent the power from shutting down or cause the car to "wake up"? (I think there are three or four of them).
Thanks
As far as the question about all cars being affected, I don't think this is the case. If you look at the people that have it, they seem to have it more than once while others never have it at all. If could be some part of their habit, maybe timing, etc...but you'd think they figure out a way to get their car to do it every time. There are a lot of variables out there...
The biggest problem will be getting a car to do this while your watching it...i.e. a watched pot never boils...
Racer
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 383
Likes: 15
From: CA
Thanks
Jeff, thanks for your willingness to step forward. I submitted my name and subsequently received a call from a Gm Quality Product Manager who asked me several questions. He actually told me an engineer was assigned to the problem last week. I'm very hopeful because I don't want to have to get rid of the car due to it not starting. Again, thanks, and I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Terry
2005 six speed
Velocity Yellow Coupe
Terry
2005 six speed
Velocity Yellow Coupe
Originally Posted by Dffej51
I want to take this opportunity to thank all of the very frustrated C6 owners who have responded to my request for information regarding the now infamous Dead Battery Syndrome. The 'engineers in high places' now have a solid core of owners to work with who have experienced the problem multiple times. (They do not need any more names at this time.) A small team of engineers has been assembled to finally take a serious look at this problem and, with the help of those who responded, they will hopefully once and for all find a 'fix'! The C6 is a phenominal car that is exceptional to drive. This DBS problem is taking away the 'fun' and needs to be fixed. Thanks again for all your responses.
Jeff
2005 C6 Cpe.
Six speed, Magnetic Red.
Jeff
2005 C6 Cpe.
Six speed, Magnetic Red.