difference between Z51 and stock?
Team Owner
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From: Short Hills, NJ
Originally Posted by Carriles
I think you get a more "sports car" ride with the suspension of the Z51
Race Director
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Originally Posted by DSOM Z51
Z51 is a winner and the best stock, from the factory performance bargain out there if you drive your car competitively. The gearing for base model vs Z51
First: 2.66 vs 2.97
Second :1.7 vs 2.07
Third: 1.30 vs 1.43
Fourth: 1.00 vs 1.00
Fifth: - 0.74 vs 0.71
Sixth: - 0.50 vs 0.57
First: 2.66 vs 2.97
Second :1.7 vs 2.07
Third: 1.30 vs 1.43
Fourth: 1.00 vs 1.00
Fifth: - 0.74 vs 0.71
Sixth: - 0.50 vs 0.57
Could it be that a wide ratio transmission isn't the best choice on the track? Could be.
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Originally Posted by LS1LT1
Not up here in New Jersey you don't...at speed on our rough roads all you get is 'skitter' and bump steer which actually equates to WORSE handling with Z51 versus base IMO.
Now on the drag strip, you'd like 90/10 shocks on the front, and softer springs, so you get maximum weight transfer on launch. You also want smaller diameter wider R rated rear tires, and you have no need to carry around 6 gears when you'll only use 3. In short you want a race prepped A4 automatic in a suitably tweaked base car if you want to consistently win races. The stiff Z51 suspension is a handicap on the drag strip, and a 6 speed transmission, whether manual or auto, brings nothing helpful to the table.
Perhaps in parking lot gymkhanas, the Z51 package makes sense. On that smooth surface, the stiff suspension won't skitter, and the wide ratio tranny with the granny low gear can be put to good use. On a bigger road course, though, you'd be better off with the gear ratios chosen for the Z06, ie the same close ratios that are in the base car. Closer ratios allow you to keep the engine buzzed up near the top of the power band over the varying speed parts of the course.
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: San Francisco CA
Originally Posted by Wass
Your post depicts the 2005 stats for the C6, and they show a top speed of 186 for the Z51 6 speed coupe. I believe the "TBD" for non-Z51 stands for "to be determined". The 2006 stats show a top speed of 186 for all coupes excluding Z06.
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From: San Francisco CA
Originally Posted by Pozzo
Another post spoke about the "closer" gear ratios of the Z51. Actually, it is the other way around, the non Z51 trans has the closer ratios and a taller (.50 vs .57) 6th gear. One would be better off getting the base trans and changing the rear gears to 4.10 (or 3.90). This would give greater acceleration in all gears and also the closer gear ratios. The Z51 trans is a negative.
The cross drilled rotors are just for show. They do not add anything on the track or on the road. Dave Hill admitted this is the case. The only thing the cross drilled rotors offer is cracking at the holes. The brakes also squeak. The brakes, therefore, are also a negative.
The coolers for the power steering, transmission and differential are dead weight for most. They are only good for the very few who track their cars. They are a handicap in street driving in that they don't do anything except add weight and become a maintenance problem. They are a negative.
The technologically advanced MSRC package (electronics and dampers that react to the road in an instant) is the superior suspension. This system is light years ahead of the traditional shocks. The Z51 shocks are a very inexpensive item for GM. These shocks will need replacement several times before the MSRC dampers need replacement. By the time the MSRC dampers do need replacement the cost will have dropped substantially. The fact is that GM makes a great profit on the Z51 option as it costs them very little.
Thicker sway bars, if desired, can be bought for about $155.
The softer compound tires are stickier and provide better traction while cornering. The question one must ask is whether this is worth the cost of replacing the tires much more often than the base tires, at a cost of about $1600 per set, and whether the additional grip is important enough to you to offset the increased price. If driven solely on the street then the answer most likely is no. Even if the answer is yes, one can get aftermarket tires (better tires for less money) without having to pay for the other inferior and/or useless stuff that comes with the burden of the Z51 option.
To answer your question; Z51 is mostly hype, not real substance.
The cross drilled rotors are just for show. They do not add anything on the track or on the road. Dave Hill admitted this is the case. The only thing the cross drilled rotors offer is cracking at the holes. The brakes also squeak. The brakes, therefore, are also a negative.
The coolers for the power steering, transmission and differential are dead weight for most. They are only good for the very few who track their cars. They are a handicap in street driving in that they don't do anything except add weight and become a maintenance problem. They are a negative.
The technologically advanced MSRC package (electronics and dampers that react to the road in an instant) is the superior suspension. This system is light years ahead of the traditional shocks. The Z51 shocks are a very inexpensive item for GM. These shocks will need replacement several times before the MSRC dampers need replacement. By the time the MSRC dampers do need replacement the cost will have dropped substantially. The fact is that GM makes a great profit on the Z51 option as it costs them very little.
Thicker sway bars, if desired, can be bought for about $155.
The softer compound tires are stickier and provide better traction while cornering. The question one must ask is whether this is worth the cost of replacing the tires much more often than the base tires, at a cost of about $1600 per set, and whether the additional grip is important enough to you to offset the increased price. If driven solely on the street then the answer most likely is no. Even if the answer is yes, one can get aftermarket tires (better tires for less money) without having to pay for the other inferior and/or useless stuff that comes with the burden of the Z51 option.
To answer your question; Z51 is mostly hype, not real substance.
The above is true and the extra coolers that you get with Z-51 are just more sources that will leak and take up more space of what little space you already have in engine compartment. People like to have bragging rights often buy a certain option only to find out it isn't for them and sell the corvette because they cant take the ride on the real world roads.
Did the 84 model have a Z-51 suspension?
Team Owner
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Originally Posted by shopdog
Now list the gearing for the real performance Corvette, the Z06. What? GM's "track car" uses the closer base ratios, not the Z51 ratios.
Could it be that a wide ratio transmission isn't the best choice on the track? Could be.
Could it be that a wide ratio transmission isn't the best choice on the track? Could be.
If the base Corvette were making 500+ BHP then those gears would be ideal for it's application as well. Only problem is that it doesn't.
If the new Z06, with it's 505 HP, had the gearing of the C6 Z51, the new Z06 would be even more traction limited than it is already. Hence the selection of taller gears for it.
Originally Posted by Shopdog
Now on the drag strip, you'd like 90/10 shocks on the front, and softer springs, so you get maximum weight transfer on launch. You also want smaller diameter wider R rated rear tires, and you have no need to carry around 6 gears when you'll only use 3. In short you want a race prepped A4 automatic in a suitably tweaked base car if you want to consistently win races. The stiff Z51 suspension is a handicap on the drag strip, and a 6 speed transmission, whether manual or auto, brings nothing helpful to the table.
I don't recall the original poster inquiring about how to build a dedicated drag car. But if he was, then yours is sage advice.
I think it goes without saying that an automatic is the absolute best option for a drag strip. However there are many people who drag race with manuals. Check the C5 Z06 forum.
Go Steelers!!!!!!!
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; Jan 25, 2006 at 12:04 PM.
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Originally Posted by DSOM Z51
Nope. Its that with the 505hp of the LS7 found in the C6 Z-6, the taller gears are ideal for a car making that much power.
If the base Corvette were making 500+ BHP then those gears would be ideal for it's application as well. Only problem is that it doesn't.
If the new Z06, with it's 505 HP, had the gearing of the C6 Z51, the new Z06 would be even more traction limited than it is already. Hence the selection of taller gears for it.
If the base Corvette were making 500+ BHP then those gears would be ideal for it's application as well. Only problem is that it doesn't.
If the new Z06, with it's 505 HP, had the gearing of the C6 Z51, the new Z06 would be even more traction limited than it is already. Hence the selection of taller gears for it.
"Perhaps in parking lot gymkhanas, the Z51 package makes sense. On that smooth surface, the stiff suspension won't skitter, and the wide ratio tranny with the granny low gear can be put to good use. On a bigger road course, though, you'd be better off with the gear ratios chosen for the Z06, ie the same close ratios that are in the base car. Closer ratios allow you to keep the engine buzzed up near the top of the power band over the varying speed parts of the course."
That addresses the issue of gearing for best track performance. Notice that the absolute power levels available doesn't enter into it. It is simply a matter of a close ratio box being able to keep the engine wound tighter at the various speeds you'd encounter on a road course. No matter the absolute power level, staying nearer to the engine's power peak will let you go faster.
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Originally Posted by shopdog
Even the base car is traction limited when TC is turned off. Perhaps you'd care to respond to part of my post you deleted.
"Perhaps in parking lot gymkhanas, the Z51 package makes sense. On that smooth surface, the stiff suspension won't skitter, and the wide ratio tranny with the granny low gear can be put to good use. On a bigger road course, though, you'd be better off with the gear ratios chosen for the Z06, ie the same close ratios that are in the base car. Closer ratios allow you to keep the engine buzzed up near the top of the power band over the varying speed parts of the course."
That addresses the issue of gearing for best track performance. Notice that the absolute power levels available doesn't enter into it. It is simply a matter of a close ratio box being able to keep the engine wound tighter at the various speeds you'd encounter on a road course. No matter the absolute power level, staying nearer to the engine's power peak will let you go faster.
"Perhaps in parking lot gymkhanas, the Z51 package makes sense. On that smooth surface, the stiff suspension won't skitter, and the wide ratio tranny with the granny low gear can be put to good use. On a bigger road course, though, you'd be better off with the gear ratios chosen for the Z06, ie the same close ratios that are in the base car. Closer ratios allow you to keep the engine buzzed up near the top of the power band over the varying speed parts of the course."
That addresses the issue of gearing for best track performance. Notice that the absolute power levels available doesn't enter into it. It is simply a matter of a close ratio box being able to keep the engine wound tighter at the various speeds you'd encounter on a road course. No matter the absolute power level, staying nearer to the engine's power peak will let you go faster.
I didn't respond to it because it was moot.
The C5 Z06 has been, and continues to be, a favorite of many who frequent road courses.
The Z51 C6 has the same gearing in it's first four gears as the C5 Z06.
Indeed these are the cars used at Bragg Smith Spring Mountain on their own road courses.
http://www.springmountainmotorsports...ageID%3d499633
http://www.springmountainmotorsports...ageID%3d499633
If these cars, with their gearing are good enough for them, then they are good enough for me. If the base C6 is the better choice then why aren't they using them?
Nuff said.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; Jan 23, 2006 at 01:50 AM.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Fort Lee NJ
Originally Posted by LS1LT1
Not up here in New Jersey you don't...at speed on our rough roads all you get is 'skitter' and bump steer which actually equates to WORSE handling with Z51 versus base IMO.
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Short Hills, NJ
Originally Posted by LS WON
Then what are the times for a 1SX Corvette? a stripper..
Team Owner
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From: Short Hills, NJ
Originally Posted by sunsetZ51
not if your cruisin on the parkway
I had my base suspension C6 on the Parkway (and Turnpike) just a few short hours ago actually and I gotta tell ya it was a pleasure soaking up those expansion joint bumps with amazing compliance and total control.
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: San Francisco CA
Originally Posted by LS1LT1
Excellent question...the low option base model cars (1SX/1LT) will likely beat (in a straight line at least) the loaded out 3LT cars whether the 3LT has Z51 or not...less weight = more speed.
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: San Francisco CA
Originally Posted by zippin zee
I think for high speed touring the Z51 brings a few things to the table that are worth while.
I believe the Z51 car will be easier to sell and will bring more money a few years down the road.
I believe the Z51 car will be easier to sell and will bring more money a few years down the road.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 701
Likes: 4
From: Spring TX
I guess I should have forgone the Z51 option. Seems like GM doesn't know anything about how to set up a car for performance, much less add some track goodies to a car. Guess I should have just gotten a non-Z51 car or heaven forbid even a Porsche.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Providence RI
I had a Z51 equipped 6-sp C6 for a couple of nights (courtesy of my dealer) and after a couple of hundred miles, I couldn't believe how nervous the ride was. It was a cold night last November when I drove it and the gearing with the cold F1 Supercars offered not much traction and wicked snap-oversteer and the bump steer at highway speeds was awful. The car was all over the uneven roads up here in New England. My friend was planning to buy it but ended up hating the car. It must be the springs that are too stiff. I was much happier hopping back to my base 6-sp C6 with the Z51 shocks, T1 rear sway bar and the base tires and springs. BIG DIFFERENCE. Much better traction and the car goes STRAIGHT down any uneven road. And I like going 85mph in second gear.
Last edited by Turbooo2u; Jan 23, 2006 at 11:26 PM.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: springtown tx
Originally Posted by LS WON
If this Z-51 makes the corvette so much better why would you sell it then ??? or even worry about how much $$$ you can get to unload it.
Team Owner
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: San Francisco CA
Originally Posted by LS1LT1
Not up here in New Jersey you don't...at speed on our rough roads all you get is 'skitter' and bump steer which actually equates to WORSE handling with Z51 versus base IMO.
We have the worst roads here which is why I went F-55.
Team Owner
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From: San Francisco CA
Originally Posted by zippin zee
Mines not for sale, the resale deal was for the people that are embarrassed when their brakes squeal, don't know where reverse is and go oh my god you have to take it to a chevy dealer to get it serviced.