z51 vs. stock
Intermediate
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 34
Likes: 7
From: Raleigh NC
OK, I am a lurker, mostly because I don't own a vette right now. I've been planning to check the z51 box and order a car this year or next spring at the latest. My dream for the last dozen years has been to order it exactly the way I want it and take delivery at the plant. So, for street driving and some track time, what makes more sense from a gear ratio perspective- base with gears, brakes, sway bars, maybe shocks or z51? I'm dreaming of that rare feeling you get on the dragon or blueridge parkway when it seems like you always have the perfect gear available or when you run through the gears and they feel perfectly spaced. If there is such a thing as the perfect sweet spot, what does it take to get either combination there? My last experience with an 03 z06 seemed pretty close, but I'd like to hear from you guys. By the way, I hope this is still close enough to the original topic that it doesn't look like a hi-jack attempt. Thanks!
Racer
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 419
Likes: 0
From: Crestwood KY
Originally Posted by corvettedreamer
OK, I am a lurker, mostly because I don't own a vette right now. I've been planning to check the z51 box and order a car this year or next spring at the latest. My dream for the last dozen years has been to order it exactly the way I want it and take delivery at the plant. So, for street driving and some track time, what makes more sense from a gear ratio perspective- base with gears, brakes, sway bars, maybe shocks or z51? I'm dreaming of that rare feeling you get on the dragon or blueridge parkway when it seems like you always have the perfect gear available or when you run through the gears and they feel perfectly spaced. If there is such a thing as the perfect sweet spot, what does it take to get either combination there? My last experience with an 03 z06 seemed pretty close, but I'd like to hear from you guys. By the way, I hope this is still close enough to the original topic that it doesn't look like a hi-jack attempt. Thanks!
He probably wasn't expecting all this.But, your question is right in line.
I personally like the base transmission better (I have actually driven both). But, frankly, there really isn't a big difference in the gearing. Both are equally excellent on their own merits. Can't speak personally to this, but changing your rear diff ratio could help you attain that "sweet spot" if neither tranny gets you threre. I may look into a 3.73 depending on how my first track day goes. Then again, I am going to Evolution school this Saturday and will get about 30-35 runs on a couple autocross tracks. Hopefully I will get to change my base shocks out to Billstein's before then. I was told that they are 15% stiffer than the Z51 shocks. Several have posted that the base springs with stiffer springs are a great combo. You may consider this...
Without doubt, you will get other opinions
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,027
Likes: 6
From: Shiloh Ohio
Originally Posted by C5 Express
Let me add one more thing. I'll take my stock C5 and run any Z51 on a twisty, windy road and show you how much money you wasted. Super brakes and suspension do not make a good driver.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,314
Likes: 35
Originally Posted by shurite44
You can outrun any Z51 with your base C6 because you are that much better at driving than anyone else with a Z51. You should give us your name, you must be a very famous race car driver.
Datawiz shares a video from his days at Spring Mountain, of a professional in an '05 C6 Z51 running down a '06 C6 Z06.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1331943
Which car offers better performance capability from the factory?
Which car would you rather have if they were giving them away?
What would happen if they switched cars?
That some guy in a stock C5 thinks he can outrun another in a C6 Z51, C5 Z06, or whatever is moot. Equal drivers, which is the only fair way to compare performance capabilities between two different cars, the automobile with the better performance capabilities is usually going to come out ahead.
The original poster asked: "does z51 with its diff. gear ratios actually run quicker than stock on mn6 and do u have numbers?"
He didn't ask: "What happens when you put John Force or Evan Smith in a base coupe and the average driver in a Z51 and run them against each other?"
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; May 9, 2006 at 01:11 AM.
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Smart guy
Intermediate
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by shurite44
You can outrun any Z51 with your base C6 because you are that much better at driving than anyone else with a Z51. You should give us your name, you must be a very famous race car driver.
Intermediate
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 34
Likes: 7
From: Raleigh NC
I personally like the base transmission better (I have actually driven both). But, frankly, there really isn't a big difference in the gearing. Both are equally excellent on their own merits. Can't speak personally to this, but changing your rear diff ratio could help you attain that "sweet spot" if neither tranny gets you threre. I may look into a 3.73 depending on how my first track day goes.
Racer
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 419
Likes: 0
From: Crestwood KY
Originally Posted by corvettedreamer
CoolBlueC6, I'm wondering just how close a base model with 3.73's vs. the z51 would be? Please be sure to give us an update on your weekend adventures.
I am really starting to put more and more thought into 3.73s. Those ratios will be beneficial on the autocross course and the track. I definitely won't go higher than that because I don't want to hurt top end (or sadly enough MPG).
Maybe some of the guys that have done this would chime in.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,253
Likes: 50
From: Sandy Eggo Calif.
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12, '16
Originally Posted by DSOM Z51
Bone stock
06C6FVR, Z51 ....12.23 @ 115.58 06
DrRichie, Z51 .... 12.42 @ 113.9
LS1LT1, Auto ..... 12.48 @112.11 06
David K, Z51 .......12.49 @116
Jschindler, Z51 .... 12.49 @ 114.9
Nine Ball, Z51 ..... 12.54 @ 113.24 (fan/stat mod)
Orange C6, Z51/auto .... 12.56 @ 112
Zippin Zee, Z51 .... 12.65 @ 111.65
Jelsis, Z51/Auto..... 12.70 @112.43 06
Demented, Z51/auto ...... 12.71 @ 111
SR0707, A6 ....... 12.73 @ 111.46 06
Shooter 49, Auto/3:15 .... 12.74 @108.67
Jchazr, Z51 ...... 12.79 @112.17
Vette-oholic, Z51 ..... 12.81 @ 112.83
Tommy D, Auto/3:15 .... 12.83 @109.44
Mr 35th, Z51 ...... 12.85 @ 114.53 06
Ginny C6, Auto/F55 .... 12.97 @ 108
Tampa Vet, Auto/3:15 .... 12.98 @108
C64ME, Z51 ........12.99 @111.7
Soldsyclone, Auto …….13.05 @ 108.7706
TMyers, Auto ...... 13.20 @ 108.91 06
C6 Matt, Z51 ........... 13.25 @110.6
JDWK, Z51 ………. 13.25 @108.4
Rich28, Z51/auto ...... 13.62 @ 106.18
06C6FVR, Z51 ....12.23 @ 115.58 06
DrRichie, Z51 .... 12.42 @ 113.9
LS1LT1, Auto ..... 12.48 @112.11 06
David K, Z51 .......12.49 @116
Jschindler, Z51 .... 12.49 @ 114.9
Nine Ball, Z51 ..... 12.54 @ 113.24 (fan/stat mod)
Orange C6, Z51/auto .... 12.56 @ 112
Zippin Zee, Z51 .... 12.65 @ 111.65
Jelsis, Z51/Auto..... 12.70 @112.43 06
Demented, Z51/auto ...... 12.71 @ 111
SR0707, A6 ....... 12.73 @ 111.46 06
Shooter 49, Auto/3:15 .... 12.74 @108.67
Jchazr, Z51 ...... 12.79 @112.17
Vette-oholic, Z51 ..... 12.81 @ 112.83
Tommy D, Auto/3:15 .... 12.83 @109.44
Mr 35th, Z51 ...... 12.85 @ 114.53 06
Ginny C6, Auto/F55 .... 12.97 @ 108
Tampa Vet, Auto/3:15 .... 12.98 @108
C64ME, Z51 ........12.99 @111.7
Soldsyclone, Auto …….13.05 @ 108.7706
TMyers, Auto ...... 13.20 @ 108.91 06
C6 Matt, Z51 ........... 13.25 @110.6
JDWK, Z51 ………. 13.25 @108.4
Rich28, Z51/auto ...... 13.62 @ 106.18
Instructor
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by CoolBlueC6
With a few MINOR mods like Z51 sways, and Z51 or Koni/Billsteins shocks, keeping the stock springs, the base will IMO take a Z51 on the road course because of the better gearing. One other thing, the base needs better tires. I will be putting PS2s on.
With this set-up, the base will outperform or at least equal the Z51.
Braking performance is about the same on both cars. The Z51s will run a little cooler on consecutive laps, but they are also more apt to warp or crack. I am upgrading to Z51 brakes this week more for looks than anything else.
Down the road, I may put the LG radiator that they are devoloping on. It has tranny and oil cooling built in.
With this set-up, the base will outperform or at least equal the Z51.
Braking performance is about the same on both cars. The Z51s will run a little cooler on consecutive laps, but they are also more apt to warp or crack. I am upgrading to Z51 brakes this week more for looks than anything else.
Down the road, I may put the LG radiator that they are devoloping on. It has tranny and oil cooling built in.
With a few minor performance mods for the Z51 like intake and tune then the base with the new tires and other "tweaks" you mentioned would be no match for the Z51. I thought this tread was comparing apples to apples. If you get to spend a few thousand in mods for your car to hopefully make it keep up with my Z51 then I should get a few thousand in mods.
Point taken. Your point was that the Z51 is a better car on a road course stock. If you want to throw mods on your car then I throw the same dollar amount on my Z51 and I still kick your a$$. Deal with it
Racer
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 419
Likes: 0
From: Crestwood KY
Originally Posted by useddialers
With a few minor performance mods for the Z51 like intake and tune then the base with the new tires and other "tweaks" you mentioned would be no match for the Z51. I thought this tread was comparing apples to apples. If you get to spend a few thousand in mods for your car to hopefully make it keep up with my Z51 then I should get a few thousand in mods.
Point taken. Your point was that the Z51 is a better car on a road course stock. If you want to throw mods on your car then I throw the same dollar amount on my Z51 and I still kick your a$$. Deal with it
Point taken. Your point was that the Z51 is a better car on a road course stock. If you want to throw mods on your car then I throw the same dollar amount on my Z51 and I still kick your a$$. Deal with it
...First, I am cordial to everyone on this forum. Second, I don't take kindly to smart *** remarks. You already have a $1700 option. I can put $1700 into the base and perform with a Z51 (drivers with equal skill). With what I have on my car, plus having an unusually strong car anyway, add in my driving skill and I'd be happy to meet you at Putnam Park for a little running. I will be there in July for a HPDE and August for a lapping day. Put your money where your mouth is. Otherwise keep your comments to yourself unless you'd care to be a little friendlier
Racer
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 301
Likes: 30
From: NY
Jackie Stewart quote
Originally Posted by shurite44
You can outrun any Z51 with your base C6 because you are that much better at driving than anyone else with a Z51. You should give us your name, you must be a very famous race car driver.
Jackie Stewart, of the legendary race car drivers once said in response to a question, "Who is a great driver? He is the one who beats you in a race, and then takes your car and gives you his, and beats you all over again!"
You can outrun any Z51 with your base C6 because you are that much better at driving than anyone else with a Z51. You should give us your name, you must be a very famous race car driver.
Originally Posted by C5 Express
Some tracks I'm well known. And it's a C5.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,164
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by CoolBlueC6
With a few MINOR mods like Z51 sways, and Z51 or Koni/Billsteins shocks, keeping the stock springs, the base will IMO take a Z51 on the road course because of the better gearing.
I might agree with those who claim one less shift in the 1/4 mile keeps the base equal, but for me the closest I get to drag racing is more of a 0-60 thing on the street and the Z51 gearing is clearly superior at that.
I also can't imagine the 6th gear in a non-Z51 tranny having any use since I find the Z51's lower 6th barely usable.
Last edited by Jim_H; Jun 3, 2006 at 09:11 PM.