Ok......I have had two DBS episodes in 18 months and like a lot of us with the problem, have become real **** about what is going on with the car. Here's what just happened............took the Vette out last evening, washed it, put it away....did my usual shut down dance(in reverse, lock the wheel, etc.)and left the car, did not hook up the battery tender because I was lazy. On those days when the battery tender is not hooked up........I touch the door handle when I walk by the car just to see the little red lights do there thing.........that tells me the car is still alive. If I have the fob in the pocket the door pops open, if no fob the little red light just glows bright red. Either way I know the car is not dead. TODAY.....fob not in pocket, walk by the car, tug on the handle and door OPENS. Whoaaaa! I say, lets try that again......I shut the door and the auto lock does what it's supposed to....I try to open the door, this time it remains locked! Could not get it to do that again! Fob is hanging on a hook in another part of the house about 15ft away where it always is when not in the pocket. My question........would this indicate that the car had been sitting there electronically awake ever since I took it out to wash it last eve.? And, had I not checked when I did would it have been dead in a little more time.........hmmm, I think I'll go put a meter on it right now and see what the battery reads!

 

Checked the voltage and it appears normal (?)......12.6

 

15 ft may be too close. Your car probably shut down but didn't lock for whatever reason, or maybe it unlocked. Anyway, most things turn off at 10 minutes, and I doubt you had DBS this time. Were you able to start the car?

If you left your car alone, then came back later for whatever reason, and hit the unlock on the fob, but just walked away. Your car shouldn't die.

 

Correct.... I did not have DBS this time......but I find it interesting that SOMETHING did not function right in the auto lock/detect system and is that something part of our problem with DBS to a greater or lesser degree. Also, seems I remember someone else posting that they had a DBS after getting the car wet ( washing) The fob was approx. 15 ft. away but that has been my drop point for the fob for 18 months. I know the car was locked when I left it the night before, I know it was still dripping water when I left it, and I know that it unlocked without the fob on me when i tugged on the handle this am. I figure any clues we can give the GM guys the better chance we have of figuring this thing out.

 

The FOB was probably too close to the car. 15 feet, we are only talking 5 yards away. About 5 or 6 adult steps away from the car.

You say that you have kept it in the same spot for 18 months and that you have had two prior instance of DBS with it at that distance? This could be why. Time to move it and see what happens.

My own key FOB is never stored any closer than 36 feet to the car when I bring the FOB into the house.
Walls, a wooden door, laundry room and finally steel door opening to the garage, seperating the two.

Sometimes the FOB is stored farther away than that in an upstairs bedroom which would put it about 40 feet away from the car.

My car has never had an episode of DBS in 17 months of service.

Close key FOB proximity has never been ruled out as a potential cause of DBS. When I say DBS I mean dead battery of unexplainable origin in any car, and not that stupid '05 MN6 only bull$#!+. I mean any C6 for which there is no other likely explanation for dead battery. '05, '06, auto, or manual.

Might be worth it to move the FOB more than just the 5 or 6 paces away from the car you are keeping it at now.

 

How does keeping the FOB close to the car drain the battery? I thought the fob range using the fob buttons was about 100 ft; but, if you're not pressing the buttons, nothing is happening. If you press the activator on the door handle and the fob is about 3 ft from the car the door opens; if the fob is more than approx. 3 ft from the car the door doesn't open. But again, if you're not pressing the activator on the door nothing is happening.

 

Well........I guess that's the whole point - keeping the fob near the car should NOT be draining the battery, but, something in the electronics of these cars is randomly malfunctioning and doing just that. My locked card should not have unlocked and let me open the door without the fob with me. Something as obscure as this is behind the DBS.

 

THANK YOU for your personal definition of DBS. As a person that has never HAD a DBS, why do you kep trying to push your definition of DBS on those that have it.

Most of us agree that DBS is unique to 05 6spds, why do you keep trying to push your mindset on us. Best bet its in the reverse/colume lock interface. See lack of problems with the 06 model 6spd stick!
Many so called cases of DBS are operator problems or defective batteries. THAT is not DBS. DBS is when a 05 6sp is SHUT DOWN by the books and it goes dead for no apparant reason.

FWIW I still think your only here to muddy up the waters.


Be thankfull you are not a DBS sufferer (at least right now) You never know

 

Fobs were discussed at length over a year ago and nothing consistent was found. With my first episode of DBS my fob #2 was close by and the dealer had me move it upstairs. I had several episodes of DBS after that. Other forum members reported similar findings.
Does it tell you in the manual to keep the fobs far away?
It doesn't make sense to design a system that way.
And why wouldn't a close by fob wake up an A4?
Possible but seems unlikely.

The 'waking up' of the '05 MN6 and killing the battery was a bigger topic a year ago, and GM is still looking, but I think 'putting the car to sleep' is the main issue.

 

Although I’ve posted the following previously, I believe it’s worth repeating:


I have had two 05's. I first had an A4 that I purchased in January of 05 and traded it for an MN6 in September. Each car was purchased new, was treated and maintained identically, parked in the same space in my garage, and the key fobs were kept in the same place in my house. Neither car had OnStar. I never suffered DBS with the A4; however, I've suffered DBS three times with the MN6. Fortunately, each occurrence was with the car parked in my own garage. Each time the dealer found nothing wrong, and the car still has the original battery, which worked just fine this morning. On one occurrence, the car was driven the day before with no problem.

If anyone at GM, or anywhere else for that matter is looking into the DBS problem, you could probably rule out the following:

- The location of the fobs
- Spurious RF signals
- The length of time between uses
- The battery (I believe if the battery were defective, it probably wouldn’t have functioned perfectly since the last occurrence of DBS)
- OnStar

 

I agree.........and the beat goes on!!!

 

Apparently there were battery draining problems with OnStar and early '05's and '06's, but problems were corrected both times.

 

I am curious. Why do you and others of your ilk, try and "push" your definition on those who have "not" had it? I hope it is not to scare them, which unfortunately, in the end it too often does.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1230466

Thats just one example of how this false panic has gripped people here. Its gotten so bad, this panic, that people who don't even have dead batteries think they have "DBS" because of how you and others, have fabricated, and/or advanced, a hare brained definition which only includes '05s.

How you think thats a good thing is baffling.

Why do you keep trying to push your mindset on those of us who think that your definition of unexplained dead batteries is crap? Why do you keep trying to tell us that an unexplained dead battery in an '05 manual is somehow different than an unexplained dead battery in an '05 automatic, or an '06 automatic, or an '06 manual? Dead is dead.

But thats just it. Why are there STILL '06s out there which show up with unexplained dead batteries?

Why are some of those cars manuals AND automatics?

How do you know that the SAME thing which afflicted the '05s which you speak of is not what has stricken those '06s and A4 '05s?

If it is as you say "in the reverse/colume lock interface" THEN WHY IS IT NOT COMPLETELY, 100% GONE WITH THE INTRO OF THE '06, which had no shift into reverse requirement?

If GM doesn't know what caused it, as they must not, because we are currently being told that they have a team which is "currently working on it"..........then how could they have "fixed" it?

You cannot have it both ways. Are they working on it............or did they fix it?



And I have said time and again that those cases do exist. But not anywhere near to the 1/4 to 1/3 of all manual '05 Vettes, frequency rate that one person here has stated

Well dude, I don't know where you have been, but the water is already "muddy." When we are being told by some who are supposedly in the know that GM has asssigned a group to work on the problem, and they are looking at things like "stray radio waves", ...........and in the next line we are hearing from experts such as yourself that its all in the reverse/column lock interface.

If GM knows that.........then why are they still looking for the cause of it? Why are they talking about "stray radio waves"?
Or do you know more than they do about what is causing it.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...247604&page=14 Posts #266, #270.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...&postcount=273


I ain't "skeered". A genuine case of unexplained dead battery is extremely rare, despite the opinions of those who are spooked by some fabricated panic.

 

Why should we be arguing with each other on this........my only reason for posting the topic was that I believe if we note some electronic event that should not logically happen......somehow that info needs to put on the board/sent to Gm, etc. in hopes that somehow someone is going to be able to connect all the dots and solve the puzzle. Whatever we call it....DBS, dead battery, or battery failure and if it happened even after the driver followed all the proper procedures specified in the owners manual, then it is a defect in the system and needs to be resolved. Any and all opinions need to be considered...........if you have one of these cars, as I do, you appreciate all efforts!

 

You are of course right blittle. However some people are so passionate about this situation, and are so spooked by it, that they get carried away when others don't totally buy into it hook, line and sinker. I am speaking specifically about the wild notion of it only affecting '05 manuals and 1/4 to 1/3 of all of them.

Coming up with that asinine definition and failing to look at ALL instances of dead battery in C6 Corvettes as opposed to just '05 manuals, may, and probably already has, done more to prevent getting to the bottom of this issue than anything else. Any C6 with an unexplained dead battery needs to be looked at.

But what a coincidence. Just last night, I went through my garage, opened my garage door to get out and get to my truck parked in the driveway. I had only my truck FOB in my pocket.

Now keep in mind that my Vette FOB is kept 30 feet away.

I pushed the garage door (doorbell type) button at the entrance door of my laundry room, went through that door and into the garage, started heading towards the garage door to wait for it to completely open.

Just for the hell of it, while the garage door was opening, I decided to hit the driver side door pad real quick, on the Vette, parked in the garage, to see the red light on the inside come on. Why??..........because I have to admit that the "DBS" issue has me a LITTLE BIT concerned as well and I will sometimes do this to put my mind at ease just as you do. Car had been sitting since Wednesday. Yesterday was Friday. The car was dark on the inside as it should have been.

You guessed it. THE DOOR OPENED. And the interior and dash lights lit up. I immediately closed it, and opened it again, the garage door nearing the end of its travel, if it had not already reached the end of it's travel, I don't recall as I was so amazed at the car opening not once, but twice............with no key FOB.

I tried it a third time, by this time the garage door had definitely reached the end of it's travel, and the Vette door would not open..

I stood there as the interior lights were dimming out. The car in reverse and the emergency brake pulled up.

I checked my pants pockets......empty. It was raining and I had on my jacket, checked the jacket pockets and only my truck FOB was in my jacket.

I headed to the store perplexed. And somewhat convinced that the garage door was somehow responsible. It uses a Genie Screwdrive, when it completely opens or closes, the lights on the unit stay on for a few minutes. Also, my Vette has Home link, but remember I used no remote to open the garage door.

As that garage door opens, what, if anything, is it emitting????? Another coincidence was that I had just, maybe two days ago, put up a post to the effect that "rolling codes" from garage door openers had not actually ever been ruled out as a potential answer to the mystery which is unexplained dead batteries in the C6 Corvette. And here I was possibly actually witnessing it.

When I got back home, I decided to try it again. Put the truck in the driveway and raised the garage door with the remote I keep in the truck. Got in as the door was rising and tried the Vette door. Wouldn't open. Tried a combo of operating the door with and without the remote and could not get the Vettes door to open.

This really got me thinking about the original event. The car had behaved just as though I had a FOB. The start button was green, the dash lights came on...........I wondered what would have happened if I had tried to start the car????????????

Despite the fact that I was not able to repeat it, I am thinking that my garage door opening may have had something to do with it.

Now the DBS pimps are going to come in with "why don't the automatics do it?" But I would counter with, who knows that they don't? Who knows how many times my car has done this or even exactly why.

I wonder if anyone else has noticed this while their garage door was opening. Or if anyone else had tried it, or would be willing to try it? If its "rolling codes" did it happen to roll to the one which would wake my car, allow me to open the door of my car? I understand the the car requires a different code each time it is operated, but did "codes match" somehow when this happened.

Do the conditions which lead to my doors opening with no FOB have something to do with unexplained dead batteries in some cars?

 

Good Grief! I think this is the 5th thread going on the DBS subject? I've received a rather lengthy email from GM which is qute detailed. Unfortunately I haven't been released to publish it yet, but when I am, do I publish to all FIVE threads?

In the mean time, let me repeat a few things and maybe suggest some new things as well.

Dead batteries are the result of DBS, not the cause. When the battery is the cause, the problem is not DBS.

We all know (I think) that DBS is not limited to only '05 cars with manual transmissions. That group has the higest incidence of failure which is why it's GM's primary focus. When trying to determine the root cause, it's best to start with the largest sample base. Changes have been made in '06 cars, and additional changes will be made in '07 cars.

The overall cause is the car wakes up when it shouldn't. The list of reasons has been established and is both long and diverse. There is no single pin-point cause and likely never will be (opinion). New information may suggest there are additional owner-error causes which had not previously not been identified.

Whether you agree or disagree with GM's process, be thankful that we're getting information directly from the horses mouth which is not a normal occurance.

Stand-by, I'll publish as soon as I can.

 

How I wish that were true. The current definition of DBS on this forum, advanced by too many people here, flatly and outright excludes any other car but a manual '05.

They would, have, and continue, to state that it is downright impossible for any other car than an '05 manual, to have DBS. This dogmatic approach is misleading to put it mildly.

This is a major bone of contention and why I have been so vocal about this issue. Never denied that it exists. But I have and will continue to believe that it is NOT confined to manual '05s.

It is good to know that if GM is in fact looking into this, that they are not buying into the bogus "definition" of dead battery syndrome advanced here.

This ought to be interesting. I can't wait to hear the "such as" on that list.

You mentioned something here in post #273.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...&postcount=273

You said: ".......... stray signal to the door lock module...."

I think this is what I witnessed.

In a prior post in the same thread, you also say:

".....We continue to work with the keyless entry teams to understand what stray
RF signals in our band does to the car. By design, the RKE module is
always searching for a signal, it never goes to sleep. If it went to sleep
it may miss me coming out of the late show after midnight and I'd be
standing at the door wondering why I couldn't get in. When it sees the
signal, it is supposed to only wake up and wait for a door or hatch input
or a key fob press. Some owners have indicated that they occasionally see
the perimeter lighting come on which would indicate that the module is
awake and has received input to wake up the BCM and is ready for the car to
be entered. The RKE team does not understand how this can occur without a
specific input from the key FOB...."

Something sent a signal to my car that allowed me to open my door last night.........and it wasn't my FOB. I don't know what did, but my FOB was too far away. At least 30-36ft away. I think the answer lies here.

Other than my garage door opener and one of those ultrasonic pest control devices you plug into the wall outlet to keep mice out, thats all thats in my garage.

 

No! We do not all think that DBS happens in all years and transmissions. The concept of DBS was raised to specifically address the excessive '05 MN6 battery failure rate. Now of course if there is another/real explanation for ALL the dead batteries, including why the excess in '05 MN6, I will be the first to admit my ignorance. The truth and a solution have been my only goals here. We will be anxiously awaiting your next post...

 

See what I mean? Dogma.

But it doesn't matter, as long as GM believes that it happens in all years and transmissions and it seems that they do.

Which is good news for all C6 Vette owners who have had unexplained dead batteries but their cars are '06 manuals or autos or '05 autos.

If its just '05 manuals, then why is it not gone completely in all the other cars? Other C6s have unexplained dead batteries too.

But his dogma won't allow him to accept that DBS is still alive and well in some of these '06s and '05 autos. He helped come up with the "forum definition" of DBS and is slow to admit that it was ill conceived to start with, and obsolete now.

The good thing is that GM is not using the "forum definition" which he was partly responsible for dreaming up. I'll accept their definition over his.

It would seem so. And that can happen to any C6 Vette.

 

DBS does occur in A4 cars. The incidence is small falling into what would be expected for battery warranty statistics. But there are confirmed cases of it happening. As an example, I sent input I received from one of our CF members to GM, and he was contacted directly. Below is the initial reply but unfortunately I haven't followed up as to any results.

I am a friend of Bruce and he sent me a copy of your email. I've been watching the information on the Corvette Forum with interest and noticed your car is a 2006 with an automatic transmission. I reviewed the data sheet you sent Bruce and I would like to discuss some of it with you. If you are interested I would like to give you a call next week at your
convenience. If you can provide me with a phone number and a good time to contact you I would be very interested is sharing your thoughts.

As I mentioned, there are a number of DBS causes, and the shutdown procedure for '05 MN6 cars is (I think) the #1 cause, but like I said, the list is long.

I was quite interested in reading DSOM Z51's report about the garage door opener. Isn't a garage door opener an IR device, not RF? I'm just guessing here. But either way, I believe he said his door was unlocked but the interior lights were not on. If I'm correct, that would suggest the door was unlocked long before the garage door opener came into the picture, i.e., the lights had gone off leaving the door unlocked? I'd like to hear more about this.