C6 Halltech intake coming apart?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,762
Likes: 4
From: Chandler Arizona
Jim,
Thanks for the numbers. Now what does 2 inches of water less pressure drop do for power? By my estimation, 2 inches is .07 psi, which if you divide by standard atmosphere of 14.7, gives .48% higher inlet pressure. I can't remember the conversion for power, but isn't it something like 70%? So 400 * .48/100 * .7 = 1.34 hp. How much less is the restriction of the bridge? I assume that's where the rest of the power increase comes from.
Thanks,
Glenn
Thanks for the numbers. Now what does 2 inches of water less pressure drop do for power? By my estimation, 2 inches is .07 psi, which if you divide by standard atmosphere of 14.7, gives .48% higher inlet pressure. I can't remember the conversion for power, but isn't it something like 70%? So 400 * .48/100 * .7 = 1.34 hp. How much less is the restriction of the bridge? I assume that's where the rest of the power increase comes from.
Thanks,
Glenn
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,533
Likes: 0
From: az
Originally Posted by Jim Hall
Tomorrow, I will personally get a new C6 System, sans the connector hose, off to both of you that had problems with the bridge.
I will make sure the new filter is pre-installed on a brand new bridge.
I'll get one off to both of you as a warranty claim.
I you have any questions, please contact me at 262-965-4300 or email my personal address at jim@CorvetteC5.com.
Thanks,
I will make sure the new filter is pre-installed on a brand new bridge.
I'll get one off to both of you as a warranty claim.
I you have any questions, please contact me at 262-965-4300 or email my personal address at jim@CorvetteC5.com.
Thanks,
Supporting Vendor
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 13,099
Likes: 672
From: Bristol, Tennessee
St. Jude Donor '09
Originally Posted by glennhl
Jim,
Thanks for the numbers. Now what does 2 inches of water less pressure drop do for power? By my estimation, 2 inches is .07 psi, which if you divide by standard atmosphere of 14.7, gives .48% higher inlet pressure. I can't remember the conversion for power, but isn't it something like 70%? So 400 * .48/100 * .7 = 1.34 hp. How much less is the restriction of the bridge? I assume that's where the rest of the power increase comes from.
Thanks,
Glenn
Thanks for the numbers. Now what does 2 inches of water less pressure drop do for power? By my estimation, 2 inches is .07 psi, which if you divide by standard atmosphere of 14.7, gives .48% higher inlet pressure. I can't remember the conversion for power, but isn't it something like 70%? So 400 * .48/100 * .7 = 1.34 hp. How much less is the restriction of the bridge? I assume that's where the rest of the power increase comes from.
Thanks,
Glenn
I got these figures from Donaldson Company that does more research than most companies on airflow.
Call me tomorrow. I have another option that will get you down to -8" with the stock C6 MAF sensor you are using, and -5" with the 04 Z06 MAF. This is done with a new version Warhead Filter, which is much lighter, and flows better than the SSM. I do not have them in stock yet, but they will be by months end.
I understand the overtightening senario. You are entitled to a new system under warranty.
Supporting Vendor
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 13,099
Likes: 672
From: Bristol, Tennessee
St. Jude Donor '09
Originally Posted by glennhl
Jim,
Thanks for the numbers. Now what does 2 inches of water less pressure drop do for power? By my estimation, 2 inches is .07 psi, which if you divide by standard atmosphere of 14.7, gives .48% higher inlet pressure. I can't remember the conversion for power, but isn't it something like 70%? So 400 * .48/100 * .7 = 1.34 hp. How much less is the restriction of the bridge? I assume that's where the rest of the power increase comes from.
Thanks,
Glenn
Thanks for the numbers. Now what does 2 inches of water less pressure drop do for power? By my estimation, 2 inches is .07 psi, which if you divide by standard atmosphere of 14.7, gives .48% higher inlet pressure. I can't remember the conversion for power, but isn't it something like 70%? So 400 * .48/100 * .7 = 1.34 hp. How much less is the restriction of the bridge? I assume that's where the rest of the power increase comes from.
Thanks,
Glenn
Here is a link to the entire Donaldson report on the Halltech C6 Stinger:
http://www.corvettec5.com/Halltechtest.pdf
This is in Kpa. The numbers posted on restriction is with the entire intake system hooked up, not just the filter. The stock MAF is used in all testing for stock vs. Halltech.
Interestingly, we get bashed all the time on the forum about our system and cold air.
I took a TECH 2 onboard my buddies C6 the other day, and watched the IAT vs the OAT, both being recorded on the TECH 2. It was 78 outside and 80 to 82 degrees at the IAT sensor. 2 to 4 degrees hotter than the outside temp, with our ICAI.
The beauty of this system, is that it does not direct airflow at the filter but rather into the intake vestibule area where it can be used by the intake as needed. No chance of water damage or mud from dirt and grim ingesting into the engine during the rain.
Too much is made over hydrolock, which is a rare occurance, and generally only happens during flooding. Our system is in the stock location, so the risk of this is minimal and much less than the bottom breathers.
I have a video somewhere that shows me flooding the filter with a hose with the engine running, and then driving down the road and doing a burnout. The filter is Totally saturated.
__________________
"World Class Performance for your Corvette"
Intake Design and Engineering since 1999
Halltech Systems, LLC
423-915-6056
For service email:
orders@halltechsystems.com
www.halltechsystems.com
"World Class Performance for your Corvette"
Intake Design and Engineering since 1999
Halltech Systems, LLC
423-915-6056
For service email:
orders@halltechsystems.com
www.halltechsystems.com
Last edited by Halltech; Jun 20, 2006 at 12:39 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,762
Likes: 4
From: Chandler Arizona
Originally Posted by Jim Hall
Found it:
Here is a link to the entire Donaldson report on the Halltech C6 Stinger:
http://www.corvettec5.com/Halltechtest.pdf
This is in Kpa. The numbers posted on restriction is with the entire intake system hooked up, not just the filter. The stock MAF is used in all testing for stock vs. Halltech.
Interestingly, we get bashed all the time on the forum about our system and cold air.
I took a TECH 2 onboard my buddies C6 the other day, and watched the IAT vs the OAT, both being recorded on the TECH 2. It was 78 outside and 80 to 82 degrees at the IAT sensor. 2 to 4 degrees hotter than the outside temp, with our ICAI.
The beauty of this system, is that it does not direct airflow at the filter but rather into the intake vestibule area where it can be used by the intake as needed. No chance of water damage or mud from dirt and grim ingesting into the engine during the rain.
Too much is made over hydrolock, which is a rare occurance, and generally only happens during flooding. Our system is in the stock location, so the risk of this is minimal and much less than the bottom breathers.
I have a video somewhere that shows me flooding the filter with a hose with the engine running, and then driving down the road and doing a burnout. The filter is Totally saturated.
Here is a link to the entire Donaldson report on the Halltech C6 Stinger:
http://www.corvettec5.com/Halltechtest.pdf
This is in Kpa. The numbers posted on restriction is with the entire intake system hooked up, not just the filter. The stock MAF is used in all testing for stock vs. Halltech.
Interestingly, we get bashed all the time on the forum about our system and cold air.
I took a TECH 2 onboard my buddies C6 the other day, and watched the IAT vs the OAT, both being recorded on the TECH 2. It was 78 outside and 80 to 82 degrees at the IAT sensor. 2 to 4 degrees hotter than the outside temp, with our ICAI.
The beauty of this system, is that it does not direct airflow at the filter but rather into the intake vestibule area where it can be used by the intake as needed. No chance of water damage or mud from dirt and grim ingesting into the engine during the rain.
Too much is made over hydrolock, which is a rare occurance, and generally only happens during flooding. Our system is in the stock location, so the risk of this is minimal and much less than the bottom breathers.
I have a video somewhere that shows me flooding the filter with a hose with the engine running, and then driving down the road and doing a burnout. The filter is Totally saturated.
Jim,
You are a gentleman and I agree you give wonderful service. Looks like this is not far off from what I was calculating. For just the filter, you gain 2 inches, which is .5 kilopascals. So for a 400 hp, .5 kilopascals would be 2.5 hp according to Donaldson's numbers. So it looks like they are using the straight ratio and not multiplying by .70 for horsepower versus inlet pressure.
Thanks,
Glenn
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,131
Likes: 0
From: Dallas Texas
Originally Posted by Jim Hall
This flow chart was done by Donaldson Company, prior to Halltech's involvement with the new high flow Z06 PowerCore filter project. They were our competitor at this point, making this an independent analysis. We paid them to run these tests.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 20,054
Likes: 44
From: Swansea IL
So far my Halltech Stinger is working as designed. I did clean the inside lip like the video shows. 1000 miles so far w/o a problem.
And I can feel the difference over the OEM intake. I'll get some dyno numbers (befofe and after) in a few weeks.
Tom
And I can feel the difference over the OEM intake. I'll get some dyno numbers (befofe and after) in a few weeks.
Tom
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,208
Likes: 1
Certainly Jim Hall deserves praise for his commitment to customer service. That is rare in general, but seems to be the rule on this forum's supplier base. With respect to the Stinger v K&N Aircharger: I really do not see any difference. The SLP also looks the same. I like the design--greater surface area to bring airflow through, no cutting of the shroud, and better flow and protection than stock. I chose the K&N, but would have no problem with either of the others. But, again, I see [I]no[I]difference in design. I guess it's a question of go with whomever you have the best history.
Mike
Mike
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Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 1
From: CA
Originally Posted by Brett Hunter
Make sure that you clean the filter and the airbridge where they join real well. I found that during shipping some of the oil from the filter can make it on this surface making it very easy to fall off.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 1
From: CA
Originally Posted by Whiterock1
Certainly Jim Hall deserves praise for his commitment to customer service. That is rare in general, but seems to be the rule on this forum's supplier base. With respect to the Stinger v K&N Aircharger: I really do not see any difference. The SLP also looks the same. I like the design--greater surface area to bring airflow through, no cutting of the shroud, and better flow and protection than stock. I chose the K&N, but would have no problem with either of the others. But, again, I see [I]no[I]difference in design. I guess it's a question of go with whomever you have the best history.
Mike
Mike
http://www.pfyc.com/store/merchant.m...&AFFIL=froogle
The Blackwing is an even better design, which uses a mounting plate that holds the filter assembly in place.
http://www.pfyc.com/supportfiles/c63015install.pdf
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,775
Likes: 1
From: Rehoboth Beach Delaware
Originally Posted by Irv
There are differences between the K&N and the Stinger. The K&N employs far deeper neck penetration into the filter and double band clamps. See for yourself.
http://www.pfyc.com/store/merchant.m...&AFFIL=froogle
The Blackwing is an even better design, which uses a mounting plate that holds the filter assembly in place.
http://www.pfyc.com/supportfiles/c63015install.pdf
http://www.pfyc.com/store/merchant.m...&AFFIL=froogle
The Blackwing is an even better design, which uses a mounting plate that holds the filter assembly in place.
http://www.pfyc.com/supportfiles/c63015install.pdf
Last edited by RBYCC; Jun 20, 2006 at 05:40 PM.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 1
From: CA
Originally Posted by Irv
There are differences between the K&N and the Stinger. The K&N employs far deeper neck penetration into the filter and double band clamps. See for yourself.
http://www.pfyc.com/store/merchant.m...&AFFIL=froogle
The Blackwing is an even better design, which uses a mounting plate that holds the filter assembly in place.
http://www.pfyc.com/supportfiles/c63015install.pdf
http://www.pfyc.com/store/merchant.m...&AFFIL=froogle
The Blackwing is an even better design, which uses a mounting plate that holds the filter assembly in place.
http://www.pfyc.com/supportfiles/c63015install.pdf
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,775
Likes: 1
From: Rehoboth Beach Delaware
Originally Posted by AFVETTE
So far my Halltech Stinger is working as designed. I did clean the inside lip like the video shows. 1000 miles so far w/o a problem.
And I can feel the difference over the OEM intake. I'll get some dyno numbers (befofe and after) in a few weeks.
Tom
And I can feel the difference over the OEM intake. I'll get some dyno numbers (befofe and after) in a few weeks.
Tom
Is the connection from the air filter to the air bridge flexible like the SLP?
Or does the filter just slide into the neck of the air bridge ?
Ed
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 20,054
Likes: 44
From: Swansea IL
Originally Posted by RBYCC
Tom
Or does the filter just slide into the neck of the air bridge ?
Ed
Or does the filter just slide into the neck of the air bridge ?
Ed
Tom
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,775
Likes: 1
From: Rehoboth Beach Delaware
Originally Posted by AFVETTE
The air bridge fits inside the air filter neck by about 1/2". The filter is also much lighter than the Blackwing. As you know I was having CEL and surging with the BW which is why I returned it. I have no such issues with the Halltech.
Tom
Tom
Did you install the Halltech CAI?
I removed my stock fascia extension on Sunday and cut it open ala Halltech. Not sure of any performance gain, but it seemed to change the overall sound of the car and mellow the GHL catbacks.
Also it appears that the Halltech filter is larger then the SLP?
.
Melting Slicks
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,891
Likes: 1
From: NJ..."the way I saw it, everyone takes a beating sometimes."
For those of you conscerned about the intake flapping around, I found a possible solution. It's from WCC. I can't find it on their website but it's in their catalog. It's a chrome stock air tube cover. It bolts right into the factory hold points. Granted it's an extra $50 and some may not like the styling. But put a nice C6 flag emblem on it and you've got a good show piece and something to hold the inlet tube down. That's if it fits. Just a thought. Wish I could show you guys.
Thread Starter
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 1
From: CA
Originally Posted by RBYCC
I wonder if the Halltech would benefit from the accordion style flex connection per the SLP? It seems that those who had problems with the filter falling off were caused by not able to maintain or over tighten the air filter neck. If both were a heavier gauge of plastic then you would draw down on the flex connector, and not distort the housing like some are doing.
Did you install the Halltech CAI?
I removed my stock fascia extension on Sunday and cut it open ala Halltech. Not sure of any performance gain, but it seemed to change the overall sound of the car and mellow the GHL catbacks.
Also it appears that the Halltech filter is larger then the SLP?
.
Did you install the Halltech CAI?
I removed my stock fascia extension on Sunday and cut it open ala Halltech. Not sure of any performance gain, but it seemed to change the overall sound of the car and mellow the GHL catbacks.
Also it appears that the Halltech filter is larger then the SLP?
.
I've been reading several posts here alleging that my installation was still at fault, but in reviewing my memory of the process, most of what sticks out at me was attention to detail. Making sure the filter was laying perfectly flat on the shroud, making sure all of the clamps were aligned properly, tight... and I remember even testing it manually for security. And to answer a perfectly reasonable question I was asked, NO ONE else but me services the car - ever.
I have a lot of trouble believing any intake mod would affect the sound of the exhaust. Two independent systems. Reminds me of audiophiles that believe the choice of power cord affects the sound of pre-amps and CD players.
Instructor
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Irv
Has anyone else ever had their Halltech C6 intake come apart after it was installed? Hall claims mine was assembled improperly, and that's why it happened, but I'm not so sure. (I assembled it myself after reading his instructions.) I opened the hood a couple days ago to find the filter dropped away from the plastic bridge. Apparently I've been driving for a day or two without an air filter!
I'll accept Hall's explanation if no one else has ever seen this happen after months of driving, and simply sell the intake for a fire-sale price.
I'll accept Hall's explanation if no one else has ever seen this happen after months of driving, and simply sell the intake for a fire-sale price.
I'd like to try it again, but don't hold out much hope for success the third time around. It seems to me that supporting the unit from the bottom of the filter would alleviate the problem. Any thoughts on a good way to do this, or if this would even work? Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,762
Likes: 4
From: Chandler Arizona
Originally Posted by glennhl
Jim,
You are a gentleman and I agree you give wonderful service. Looks like this is not far off from what I was calculating. For just the filter, you gain 2 inches, which is .5 kilopascals. So for a 400 hp, .5 kilopascals would be 2.5 hp according to Donaldson's numbers. So it looks like they are using the straight ratio and not multiplying by .70 for horsepower versus inlet pressure.
Thanks,
Glenn
You are a gentleman and I agree you give wonderful service. Looks like this is not far off from what I was calculating. For just the filter, you gain 2 inches, which is .5 kilopascals. So for a 400 hp, .5 kilopascals would be 2.5 hp according to Donaldson's numbers. So it looks like they are using the straight ratio and not multiplying by .70 for horsepower versus inlet pressure.
Thanks,
Glenn
I agree with the numbers, you get around 2.5 hp for the bigger filter, but where does the rest come from if it's good for 10 hp?
Thanks,
Glenn