Hi all,

I have a 05 Vette 6 speed and am thinking about changing out my stock cam. I read an article called LS2 Dyno Thrash. It was linked on the forum somwhere but it came from GM High Tech Performance Magazine. According to Livernois Motorsports they achieved a 90 hp gain with their stage 1 cam. Do you believe this? Here is the address for the article. http://gmhightechperformance.com/tec..._engine_tests/

What I'm looking for is a cam that will add as much hp and tq as possible BUT retain a good almost stock(like) idle and very good drivability. I don't want the thing to idle at 1400 rpms or have a big lope to it at idle. My question to the group is;
1. what do you think of this Livernois cam, do you believe the results?
2. what other cams would you recommend?
3. would I have to upgrade my clutch to handle the extra hp?

Thanks everyone and have a great 4th of July!

Aaron

 

Understand thats an Engine Dyno and not on a Chassis Dyno. 90hp at the crank isnt 90hp at the wheels. Its really easy to make power with an LS2

 

Now that's honesty. I need a set of ported heads, I think I know who to call

 

You simply cannot have all of this. You must sacrifice something to make the power and/or have lope. The cam in that article if I'm correct is a 232 236?? That cam will make lots of power but it will have lope and some loss of driveability and low rpm's. I'm pretty sure they can hook you up with a 224 228 cam that will idle close to normal and retain very good driveability.


I have no reason not to, but remember what he said about an engine dyno. Also, that engine had headers, I can't see if it had cats or not, free flowing intake/mufflers and no AC. (At least the one pictured)

See Above for what you want. 224 228 114 LSA 581/588 lift.

Your clutch will be fine for quite some time with that cam.

Dave

 

"See Above for what you want. 224 228 114 LSA 581/588 lift."

How can you guys tell anything about a cam with only this information???
You could have these specs on five different cams and have them all perform COMPLETELY different. You need to see the profile or at least see how "quick" they are. Perhaps, on the intake side, knowing the intake opening point, and lift at TDC, would give you some kind of idea what the contact velocity and flank speed might be. Is this timing at lash or .050 or maybe .055? Are the lobes concentric? Are they ground with some sort of advance or retard; or is the 114 lobe seperation, also where the lobe center is?

 

This is a well known AFR grind. It has been a proven combo for years in LS1, LS6 and now LS2. Many vendors sell it. I'm not telling him to custom grind a cam with those specs, the cam already exists and can be found in hundreds of cars.

 

I think you've been reading too many cam theory threads over on LS1TECH. You can pretty much tell by the lift how "quick" they are, this is a very standard lobe. I have never in my life heard of a cam's lift and duration quoted at .055", it's always either qouted as "advertised" (.003") or at .050". Almost every off the shelf performance cam sold has 2 degrees of advance built in, so if you're really interested, you can easily figure out the intake centerline, and all the valve timing events. Yes, the lobes are concentric. Yes, if you were to buy a cam with these exact same specs from five different vendors, they would perform almost EXACTLY the same.

 

I think you've been reading too many cam theory threads over on LS1TECH. You can pretty much tell by the lift how "quick" the ramp speeds are, this is a very standard "XE-R" style lobe. I have never in my life heard of a cam's lift and duration quoted at .055", it's always either qouted as "advertised" (.003") or at .050". Almost every off the shelf performance cam sold has 2 degrees of advance built in, so if you're really interested, you can easily figure out the intake centerline, and all the valve timing events. Yes, the lobes are concentric. Yes, if you were to buy a cam with these exact same specs from five different vendors, they would perform almost EXACTLY the same.

 

Well actually I haven't read too many cam theory books lately but I did spend a good amount of time in the industry and worked for a major cam manuf. for many years of that. I, while it is the norm, I have often seen cams that are measured at other than .003 and .050, especiall some of the "cheater" cams; and I disagree that almost all the aftermarket cams are ground on a 2 degree advance - at least the cams I have purchased- but maybe the ones that the people on this thread are used to. So your telling me that all these cams that you guys are looking at all have a standard rate of lift, contact velocity, etc. And none of them have more or less dwell on the nose? If that's the case then I suggest that there can be a big improvement in the cams you are choosing because there is a lot more to it. You can have a relatively small cam at .050 that is relatively big at .200 and up, with more of a dwell over the nose. That cam will "act" bigger but still open later and close sooner; and while they act bigger they still tend to put some low rpm torque into the motor because of the valve acceleration. Of course, you need a better valve spring to control them.
Lobe centers are another thing and I suspect that some of the automatics could be helped with a smaller duration, faster rate of lift and slightly tighter lobe centers. I'm not saying I know what is best on the C6 or any other recent Vette because I am relatively new to that arena; but I am talking basic camshaft configuration. The older Vettes (60s through about 80) is another story.
Sorry I gave my opinion and asked a question on this board. It seems to be full of people who seem to think they know everything and any question and comment that it different should be criticized.

 

And by the way HITMAN, I haven't seen too many "good" cams ground in the last 30 years that are concentric lobes. Of course for a street cam that might be just fine; but if your going to the track you will probably want a faster opening side and an easier decelleration on the closing side to reduce the amount of bounce off the valve seat.

 

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and just because somebody disagrees with you is no reason to keep your opinions to yourself.

If I interpreted your comments correctly, the point you were making was that the standard cam specs of lift, duration, and LSA are not sufficient to make an informed choice. I would not necessarily disagree with you, but I do know that most Forum members do make their decisions on just that information, and most recommendations you will hear from members are also based on those specs. Most guys who come onto the Tech forum to ask for cam advice are not racers, they're interested in street performance, with some occasional weekend track adventures.

Your second point was that you could have five different cams with those same specs, and have them perform completely differently. While I suppose this is theoretically possible (change the intake centerline by 10 degrees), there are no reputable vendors selling such cams over the counter. If you bought 5 different cams from 5 different vendors with the same basic specs (lift, duration, LSA) they will ALL perform virtually the same, within a few HP anywhere on the power curve.

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

 

Enough guys on this board have used the 224/230 and 224/228 cams and gotten 420+ to the wheels....myself included, to make the recommendation valid. The car will have a slight shake at idle and as you increase duration you will get more shake. 232/236 will give you more lope and 15-20rwhp more.

 

Hitman:
I don't disagree with anything you said in your last post; and I'm sure those simplified recommendations is all that is needed for a mild street application. I guess I was just asking how you guys go on such little info; but then I probably will never get into cam replacement for a street application, so my frame of reference is always racing applications.
Just out of curiosity though, how would the '06 Z06 cam work in a reg. C6. I am assuming that even though the Z06 is a 427 it is the same basic block - maybe an incorrect assumption.
You must forgive - I haven't had a Vette since my '93. My Vette's were:
62 vert
63 F.I. vert
64 365 hp vert
66 427/425 vert
87 coupe
93 coupe
and now my brand new C6 coupe
I'm glad to be back
By the way: I have seen a lot on these posts about the Z51 handling passage (some love it and flaunt it/others hate it or appear to be a little envious of it- or maybe they just don't like the flaunting of it). My take is that if you love the C6 as a performance vehicle - what is there not to like about that package. If you love the C6 as an absolutely beautiful looking and comfortably streetworthy vehicle, which it is, then the handling package isn't necessary. Mine came with the package and I'm glad it did because I love the Vette as a performance vehicle; and it doesn't have to ride like a Caddie to suit me. Geez, I might even invest in a Z51 emblem and I wouldn't care if the non Z51ers put a "HUD" emblem (an option that I don't have) on theirs. Just my $.02
Whew !!! I got that all off my chest in one post.
Peace HITMAN

 

Springs - Pushrods - Titanium Retainers as well whatever CAM you do.

Sites to search:
Carteck
COMPCAM
LGM
Ling
Calloway

 

The C6 Z06 is a very strange beast, tailored to the 427. It has a huge split duration (210/230) with a very wide LSA. The exhaust valve is rather small, so the extra exhaust duration is needed. It's very tractable, gives good mileage for its displacement, runs pretty clean, emission wise.

Here's a link: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...&highlight=LSA

Wouldn't be my first choice for an LS2.

Re the Z51 package, it does have a stiffer, more sporty suspension, but also comes with other goodies like stickier tires, better brakes, etc. For pure cornering power, the F55 suspension has actually turned better lap times at some tracks. The base suspension isn't bad, can be improved greatly just by swapping out the sway bars.

 

Thank you everyone for your replies. Have a great 4th of July!

Aaron