how much?

 

Mine didn't seem to lose any mileage. I got 28 going to Long Beach and back after doing my 160 stat and that was driving at around 80 with the A/C on.

 

I prefer NOT to soak the resiidual engine heat into the AC condenser and compressor and other engine compartment components..........

Do as you wish my last two vettes never had AC trouble whatsoever and i change the top and bottom radiator hoses at 110k miles because i they had served their purpose after 15years.....

do as you like my last four cars proved this small item change in termal soak into important items

oh did I mention that i never replaced a water pump....

the factory radiator will remove enough BTUs to accomodate a solid 170 degrees in miami,,,,,, i dont know about th 115 degrees they are seeing in Phoenix right now but another row in the radiator might be a good investment out there


use the facts and your best judgement

RN

 

My gas mileage is unchanged. Much more dependant (tank to tank) on how much "fun" I'm having!

 

Well, a bit cooler is better. Engines typically perform better with a coolant temperature in the 180F range. A 170F thermostat and earlier fans will work nicely. That'll put 180F inside the range of control authority of the thermostat, and with earlier fans, allow it to keep it there under varying loads.

Running the engine cooler than stock isn't the problem with changing to a 160F thermostat. The problem is that you've relinquished temperature control by operating outside the control range of the thermostat (except maybe in the dead of winter). So the solution is to use a thermostat that will have control authority in the new temperature range.

Using a 160F stat is like setting the thermostat in your house to 55F when you actually want the room temperature to be 72F. In the middle of summer, when the sun is beating down (analogous to a heavy engine load), your house's air conditioner may run all of the time and still not keep the house at 72F. Setting the thermostat colder doesn't help, the A/C is already doing all it can. The only answer to that is get a bigger A/C unit (analogous to more air flow through the engine radiator).

But under lighter heat loads, or with a big enough air conditioner, its going to get quite chilly in there if you have the thermostat set at 55F. Instead, you want a big enough A/C unit to achieve the desired temperature, and then set the thermostat at the temperature you really want it to maintain. Then the heat load won't matter, the thermostat always has control. Same in your car. Get enough air flow to achieve the desired temperature, then choose a thermostat that can keep it there.

 

The car can't actually run as cold as 160F (except maybe in the dead of winter). So any effect on fuel economy would only be during the transient period when the car is warming up from a cold start. The rest of the time, engine temperature will be above the range of control authority of the too cold thermostat, so it shouldn't have much of an effect on fuel economy. The ECM goes closed loop at 178F (that's the point when the computer can start to regulate fuel mixture for best economy), and most people aren't going to see engine temperature reach an equilibrium below that, even with a 160F thermostat. (In summer. In winter, it could run too cold to let the ECM switch to closed loop mode, then you could see economy decrease.)

 

You have to program the fans to reach 100% sooner or its fruitless.If you don't your engine will still reach the same operating temperature,only a little slower,unless you are on the highway and already have air flow.

Here is a shot of the OEM fan speed percentage vs. coolant temp. As you can see they come on at 199* at only 15 % and they never reach 100%.

I put a 160 stat with a electric water pump that does not slow down at idle when you really need flow and cooling. At 196*and above my fans are at 100% (I used my HP Tuners) .Engines have lower emissions when hot above 200*, but more power between 185*-195*.It's been dyno proven.

 

shopdot, i don't get you, are you not able to learn this topic? your wishful thinking theory of running in the 180 degree with 170 stat, can't never happen. 160 stat will get you 178ish, and that is the only way to make it happen. none other stat stock, 180 or the 170 you kept meantion that doesn't exist for the c6 right now, they all can't kept it at engine coolant at 180. you havn't done it, and you are just typing what you read from the factory service manual, but these people actually has done it and proved it.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...1431370&page=3

 

As a junior member, I suppose it's understandable for you to lack knowledge and manners. Shopdog knows this subject, and many more, forwards and backwards. You don't.

I ran a 160 thermo in an LS1 for a while, and pulled it out. It worked OK on very hot days, but the operating temperature range was too cool on colder days. I replaced it with a 180 thermo, and had my fans tuned with HP Tuners. Result was exactly what Shopdog describes, an operating temperature range between 185 and 190, max of 195 on very hot days.

For your information, it is also relatively simple to modify an OEM thermo to open sooner, or to modify a 180 thermo to open at 170. It just takes a little experimentation with a bucket of hot water, and an accurate thermometer. A guy named Joe Kezziere sold hundreds of DIY thermostats on LS1.COM to guys who didn't want to pay high vendor prices. Nowadays, low temp thermos are only $30 or so.

Like Shopdog, I wish the vendors sold a 170 thermo. I would buy one in a minute. Just for fun, I think I'll get a 180, and then tweak it down to 170-175. If I do, I'll post pics.

 

if you judge my knowledge on this subject base on the "junior" status, that would be a mistake. check out the thread that i included in my previous post. all these people with c6 that has ls2 not ls1 (prehaps you have the misforturne of ls1 in your c6) are reporting what i had stated. you must have stock stat, put in a 180 stat and you will see it open around 195ish on your dic / ect if you don't believe me. when stock stat open ect/dic will show around 200ish. again, you don't have to believe me since i am a "junior member", but watch your dic/ect temp next time when the car has a chance to park over night, stock stat is 186 and you will around 200ish on dic. so, if your goal is to maintain engine coolant around 180, the only stat that will do the trick is 160. again, try it for yourself, i am sure you will, and report back if i am wrong.

p.s. yes i know about what "shopdog knows on this subject and many more" he avg 6.54 post per day since 2004. he has lots of say on everything. perhaps that implys knowlege of everything too.

 

i have personally tried all 3 thermostats in my 06 c6 and kept detail records and i will confirm junior's data.

 

The temperature sensor for the LS2 is screwed into the metal of the head adjacent to an exhaust port. The 1200F gases passing through there will heat the adjacent metal and that heat is conducted to the sensor. In other words, that sensor is always going to read higher than the actual coolant temperature. It would be a violation of well understood thermodynamic principles if it didn't. The metal of the engine has to be hotter than the coolant for any heat to transfer to the coolant. Heat only flows from the hotter substance to the cooler substance. This is not a problem, it is normal, and of no concern if you understand what is happening.

What we want to achieve is a coolant temperature of 180F. Because of the geometry and physics of the sensor placement, the DIC will report a higher temperature than the actual coolant temperature, and thus will read several degrees higher. We don't need to care about that as long as we understand it.

 

what you stated here "dic temp sensor will read higher" isn't even possible according to your water wetter thread.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...1431370&page=3

 

this may only affect it slightly, but regardless, the ECM use this data and others to make a/f calualtion, there is no way around this.

 

dudes... Pick your temp and design for it......

I prefer mine lower for reliability.....

GM is smart enough to know what temps provide given results..... the engineers on this forum will never have enough data to confirm their "theories"

GM wants whats best for them they dont want the power plant to last forever ,,,, best gas mileage possible for HP rating.and..minimum emmissions for that HP rating

however there is research that says as temp and compression ratios increase the fuel effeciency increases....

I have an engineer friend who is life cycle testing a completlely ceramic internal combustion engine in a lab with a bunch of fire supression.... he can run this thing to a dull red engine block color with no concern,,,,without going into detail that I am not sure of myself on lubricants and fuels, he is able to do fuel efficiency tests and lubricant capabilities....

the facts I gather from him are

the temp brings fuel efficiency up

temp kills longevity, iron doesnt like to be rubbed together over 280 degrees but inceases longevity rapidly as the temp reduces.

best fuel effiency and wear come together somewhere near 180....

now..... if you take my previous posts and the reduction of stress on the underhood components.... 160 is the winner.... if you richen the mixture the temp comes down to match the thermostat ....... however i will say i dont keep my cars much past 100k miles and the last one i sold at 108k ran like a top an strong enough to get sideways in second gear.

I havent any real idea why dog has a target of 180 other than open loop that tuning can ignore temp on....

please explain ,,,, I have had 3 of these and nailed 160 continious with careful tuning,,,,, deeper than the handheld version.... open loop came in when o2 sensors provided ranged voltages.......

I am hoping to do a 160 on my 2004.. does anyone know if i need to get the thermostat with the housing?

RN

 

Of course its possible, and I never said otherwise. You obviously suffer from a lack of reading comprehension. Have you stuck your tongue on the radiator yet?

 

I don't think you need the housing on a 2004, as far as I know it was the first year since '97 that the Corvette used the older style 'thermostat only' set up.

 

I think everyone needs to take a course in reading compression concerning shopdogs post on this subject. What he has said over and over again is control is the key to the answer. A 160deg stat may work fine for people living down south but up here north it would not work in winter.

Ideally you want a system that will control your temps, 180ish regardless if the temp outside is 30 or 100. To do this you will need the combination of stat, fans, water pump and radiator to make it work across the range in all driving conditions. It is a simple concept but hard to achieve.

The only reason shopdog is not in favor of the 160 stat solution is that you have lost all control above 160. I agree with him. Your stat should be operating in you target operation range.

 

once again olddog on the attack after been proven wrong. what else is new with the "dog".

 

mostly it is for emission due to government standards, once it reach close loop (even with 160 stat, it is in close loop already) the difference in fuel efficiency is very small. for the most part none of us will be able to tell unless it is driven in a control environment.

bottom line on is this, those that track their c6 will use 160 stat and so will all the engines that are lingenfelter involved (he is no idiot in my book, but i am sure someone will tell me other wise) power production is #1 with these guys, emission and cafe are not a priority. then there are the guys that doesn't track their c6 on a regular bases or at all, they will swear against 160 stat no matter what the theory is.
so, take your poison or camp. even if i know absolute nothing about cars, i would be in lingenfelter camp. can never go up again "THE MAN / TOP DOG"