What exactily does Competative Mode do?
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 349
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What exactily does Competative Mode do?
I just got my C6 with A6 and Z51 so I am not familiar with many of the options for driving the C6. I am wanting to get an explanation of competative mode and some driver opinions on this mode. I autocross and on my prior C5 with A4 the car did not perform as well in competative mode as it did with AH/TC off. It seems you can use this mode in D, S, and Paddle Shift mannual modes but from there I am lost.
Any information would be appreciated.
Any information would be appreciated.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 82
From: Ridgeland MS
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11
Here is the way that I think if it:
1 press of the button - Traction Control OFF, Full Active Handling ON
2 presses of the button in 5 sec - Competitive Mode, TC OFF, AH ON, but with greater tolerances for sliding sideways (what you want on a road course) and firmer shifts with automatics
1 press of the button for longer than 5 sec - TC and AH off, with you in total control of the car.
I would suggest that you start off using the Competitive Mode. Then work your way up on a course and go to 'race mode' with a long button push if you don't mind looping it a time or two. I keep it in Competitive Mode if part of the course has hard walls or other obstructions just off the course. If it is a cone course in a wide open lot, you can afford to use the long push and let it all hang out.
I hope that this helps.
1 press of the button - Traction Control OFF, Full Active Handling ON
2 presses of the button in 5 sec - Competitive Mode, TC OFF, AH ON, but with greater tolerances for sliding sideways (what you want on a road course) and firmer shifts with automatics
1 press of the button for longer than 5 sec - TC and AH off, with you in total control of the car.
I would suggest that you start off using the Competitive Mode. Then work your way up on a course and go to 'race mode' with a long button push if you don't mind looping it a time or two. I keep it in Competitive Mode if part of the course has hard walls or other obstructions just off the course. If it is a cone course in a wide open lot, you can afford to use the long push and let it all hang out.
I hope that this helps.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,924
Likes: 854
From: Daytona Beach FL
$1Bill has a good explanation there, butt......let me just try to explain what I know about the system (which is limited!!
I never had a C5, and I think the AH/TC actually changed a little throughout the years of that marque, and I believe the C6 is a little different than the C5.
Anyway, as you know, there are 2 things going on:
1. AH
2. TC
The TC only works with the rear wheels. In order to try and hook up the tires for you, the manual says:
)
The AH works on all four wheels, and to my knowledge only works through the brakes. Here's an excerpt directly from the 2005 C6 Owner's Manual:
When you go into Comp mode, TC is disabled but AH is still active. According to the manual:
And, of course you can completely disable AH and TC by holding the button down for more than 5 seconds.
As an aside, if your racing tires don't have sensors, you may not be able to turn off AH or go in to Comp mode. Some owners report problems and others don't have any problems. If you're doing shorter track sessions with no sensors (less than 60 minutes), you can probably turn off everything. Some racers have their street tires with sensors in the pits and when they make a pit-stop the TPMS picks up a signal from the sensors in the pits and all is good for about another 60 minutes.
From the manual:
Also from the manual (the DIC messages section):
Bob
I never had a C5, and I think the AH/TC actually changed a little throughout the years of that marque, and I believe the C6 is a little different than the C5.
Anyway, as you know, there are 2 things going on:
1. AH
2. TC
The TC only works with the rear wheels. In order to try and hook up the tires for you, the manual says:
The system operates only if it senses
that the rear wheels are spinning too much or are
beginning to lose traction. When this happens, the
system works the rear brakes and reduces engine power
(by closing the throttle and managing engine spark) to
limit wheel spin.
(uh-oh! We may be getting on to the slippery slope of TM herethat the rear wheels are spinning too much or are
beginning to lose traction. When this happens, the
system works the rear brakes and reduces engine power
(by closing the throttle and managing engine spark) to
limit wheel spin.
)The AH works on all four wheels, and to my knowledge only works through the brakes. Here's an excerpt directly from the 2005 C6 Owner's Manual:
Active Handling System
The Active Handling System is a computer controlled
system that helps the driver maintain directional control
of the vehicle in difficult driving conditions. This is
accomplished by selectively applying any one of the
vehicle’s brakes.
I think this means that for AH the brake on any one (or more) of the four wheels can be activated. Again, the TC only acts on the rear wheels.The Active Handling System is a computer controlled
system that helps the driver maintain directional control
of the vehicle in difficult driving conditions. This is
accomplished by selectively applying any one of the
vehicle’s brakes.
When you go into Comp mode, TC is disabled but AH is still active. According to the manual:
Competitive Driving Mode
The driver can select this optional handling mode by
pressing the ACTIVE HANDLING button on the console
two times within a five second time period. A chime
will sound and COMPETITIVE DRIVING MODE will be
displayed in the DIC. Competitive Driving Mode
allows the driver to have full control of the rear wheels
while the Active Handling System helps steer the
vehicle by selective brake application. The instrument
cluster light will not be on. The Traction Control System
will not be operating. Adjust your driving accordingly.
So.....it sounds like Comp mode is just AH with no TC. However, I believe most gurus think that even though AH is still active, the algorithm for brake activation is different and allows more aggressive driving before AH kicks in and intervenes.The driver can select this optional handling mode by
pressing the ACTIVE HANDLING button on the console
two times within a five second time period. A chime
will sound and COMPETITIVE DRIVING MODE will be
displayed in the DIC. Competitive Driving Mode
allows the driver to have full control of the rear wheels
while the Active Handling System helps steer the
vehicle by selective brake application. The instrument
cluster light will not be on. The Traction Control System
will not be operating. Adjust your driving accordingly.
And, of course you can completely disable AH and TC by holding the button down for more than 5 seconds.
As an aside, if your racing tires don't have sensors, you may not be able to turn off AH or go in to Comp mode. Some owners report problems and others don't have any problems. If you're doing shorter track sessions with no sensors (less than 60 minutes), you can probably turn off everything. Some racers have their street tires with sensors in the pits and when they make a pit-stop the TPMS picks up a signal from the sensors in the pits and all is good for about another 60 minutes.
From the manual:
If the Tire Pressure Monitor (TPM) system detects a flat
tire and the Driver Information Center (DIC) displays
TIRE FLAT, or if the TPM system is malfunctioning and
the DIC displays SERVICE TIRE MONITOR, the
Active Handling System will be affected as follows:
• The Active Handling System cannot be turned off by
the driver.
• If the Active Handling System is off, it will be turned
on automatically.
• Competitive Driving Mode is unavailable.
• The Active Handling System will feel different in
aiding and maintaining directional control.
tire and the Driver Information Center (DIC) displays
TIRE FLAT, or if the TPM system is malfunctioning and
the DIC displays SERVICE TIRE MONITOR, the
Active Handling System will be affected as follows:
• The Active Handling System cannot be turned off by
the driver.
• If the Active Handling System is off, it will be turned
on automatically.
• Competitive Driving Mode is unavailable.
• The Active Handling System will feel different in
aiding and maintaining directional control.
Also from the manual (the DIC messages section):
SERVICE TIRE MONITOR: If this message comes on,
a part on the Tire Pressure Monitor (TPM) is not
working properly. If you drive your vehicle while any of
the four sensors are missing or inoperable, the
warning will come on in about 60 minutes. A sensor
would be missing, for example, if you put different
wheels on your vehicle without transferring the sensors.
Whew! That was probably way more info than you were lookin' for!!!a part on the Tire Pressure Monitor (TPM) is not
working properly. If you drive your vehicle while any of
the four sensors are missing or inoperable, the
warning will come on in about 60 minutes. A sensor
would be missing, for example, if you put different
wheels on your vehicle without transferring the sensors.
Bob
Last edited by BEZ06; Jul 19, 2006 at 07:06 PM.
Drifting
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,746
Likes: 0
From: Upper St. Clair PA
St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'09
Originally Posted by beezeye
Whew! That was probably way more info than you were lookin' for!!!
Bob
Bob
No, that was perfect as far as I am concerned.
Thanks for the effort!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,210
Likes: 9
From: CA
Im curious about the specifics of when AH kicks in.
I know there are Yaw and Steering wheel position sensors, is there another sensor that AH uses?
How much difference in the two (where the car is being steered and where the car is actually headed) before AH has something to say about that matter?
I know there are Yaw and Steering wheel position sensors, is there another sensor that AH uses?
How much difference in the two (where the car is being steered and where the car is actually headed) before AH has something to say about that matter?
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,924
Likes: 854
From: Daytona Beach FL
Originally Posted by CessnaDriver
Im curious about the specifics of when AH kicks in.
I know there are Yaw and Steering wheel position sensors, is there another sensor that AH uses?
How much difference in the two (where the car is being steered and where the car is actually headed) before AH has something to say about that matter?
I know there are Yaw and Steering wheel position sensors, is there another sensor that AH uses?
How much difference in the two (where the car is being steered and where the car is actually headed) before AH has something to say about that matter?
Below is a link to a good article by Hib Halverson in an old idavette.net article. It talks about the system in a '98 C5. Although I'm sure things have been refined quite a bit in the last 8 or so years, the basics Hib discusses in this article are probably still the basics at work in the C6.
In the "Background, Hardware and Calibration" paragraph Hib says:
The Active Handling controller takes data on wheel speeds, steering angle and rate, yaw rate, lateral acceleration and brake pressure. If it detects a significant understeer situation, it will momentarily apply or, if the driver is already on the brakes, increase pressure to the inside rear brake. That applies additional yaw torque to the car in the direction it is turning which decreases the understeer. If the controller detects an excessive oversteer situation, Active Handling applies the outside front brake. This time, the yaw torque is opposite the turning direction and decreases oversteer.
He goes on to explain that there are some differences in the way the system reacts at high-speed race conditions above 80mph. I mentioned in my original post that some gurus say AH acts differently when you are Comp mode. Hib's mention of what goes on in high-speed racing conditions when the brakes are already applied to the max may be what "some gurus" are talking about. I don't really know if the AH system actually acts differently in Comp mode or not.
The last part of the article has some real good stuff on racing with/without the system on. Overall, a real good article even if it is a little dated.
Hib Halverson C5 Active Handling Article
Bob
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Verdad Gallardo
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 33
From: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
In real life terminalogy:
Competitive driving mode saves your arz from a screw up, for those who have not had lots of track miles and know how to correct a slide/ skid or how to trottle trail brake oversteer correctly.
Competitive driving mode saves your arz from a screw up, for those who have not had lots of track miles and know how to correct a slide/ skid or how to trottle trail brake oversteer correctly.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,924
Likes: 854
From: Daytona Beach FL
Originally Posted by AU N EGL
In real life terminalogy:
Competitive driving mode saves your arz from a screw up, for those who have not had lots of track miles and know how to correct a slide/ skid or how to trottle trail brake oversteer correctly.
Competitive driving mode saves your arz from a screw up, for those who have not had lots of track miles and know how to correct a slide/ skid or how to trottle trail brake oversteer correctly.
And after all the junk I've posted, your explanation and $1Bill's original description of Comp mode are pretty much all you need to know:
Originally Posted by dollarbill
2 presses of the button in 5 sec - Competitive Mode, TC OFF, AH ON, but with greater tolerances for sliding sideways (what you want on a road course) and firmer shifts with automatics
